Riders versus the BHS, BEF, BD, BE, FEI the whole cabooodle!

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macarthur

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Riders should be allowed to ride in the tack that most suits their horse - so it improves his performance, health and safety... you would think? NO you cant! Even when your horse is injured or maimed - you have to comply to the rules - here is a petition that might get the change we should have - is this a free country? is CHOICE our right?

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://chn.ge/1iqBp0q&h=_AQF5ke1A
 
No!

I don't think it would be fair for say my horse to go in a novice dressage test in a snaffle, then another horse go in the test in a double, gag or pelham etc.

Rules are rules, no petition is going to change them unless you're the president of the affiliation.
 
Agree with the above replies. Also why would you want to be competing if horse was injured? Can see there may be an occasion where something specific might rub a scab or something but then you simply don't compete until it is all okay and can compete in the permitted equipment.
 
but what happens to your horse when it can for no reason ride in a bit? THINK of Mark Smith team chasers and event team - who can compete in bitless but not in dressage phase - the least dangerous of all three phases - why should a horse that goes better bitless (or cna no longer ride bitted) be forced into a bit - what is our hang up with bits? we pay into the associations without us they don't exist are we not the customers? what would you do if this situation happened to you? to your horse? - retire him?
 
macarthur said:
but what happens to your horse when it can for no reason ride in a bit? THINK of Mark Smith team chasers and event team - who can compete in bitless but not in dressage phase - the least dangerous of all three phases - why should a horse that goes better bitless (or cna no longer ride bitted) be forced into a bit - what is our hang up with bits? we pay into the associations without us they don't exist are we not the customers? what would you do if this situation happened to you? to your horse? - retire him?
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If I had a horse that couldn't be bitted, I wouldn't compete in a discipline that didn't allow this.

If you don't like the rules, don't play the game!!
 
recovered from injury - like most horses can return to competition - but not if they are bitless (teeth missing on one side for example) so a healthy horse with teeth missing! :-)
 
macarthur said:
recovered from injury - like most horses can return to competition - but not if they are bitless (teeth missing on one side for example) so a healthy horse with teeth missing! :-)
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Why does it matter that teeth are missing? A correctly fitting bit shouldn't touch any teeth (missing or not) ?
 
macarthur said:
R Even when your horse is injured or maimed - you have to comply to the rules - here is a petition that might get the change we should have - is this a free country? is CHOICE our right?

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://chn.ge/1iqBp0q&h=_AQF5ke1A
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Can I ask why you would want to be competing, or possibly even *riding*, a MAIMED horse?? It's one thing to have a horse which somehow maybe injures itself and you can't, for example, use a bit for a few days, or use a noseband. But a *maimed* horse?! That sounds like a welfare issue in itself...
 
whats hysterical - its true that's what the petition is doing taking on the rule book ! :-) no hysterics from me ...but maybe in hallowed towers and creaky halls of tradition and dogma...
 
macarthur said:
whats hysterical - its true that's what the petition is doing taking on the rule book ! :-) no hysterics from me ...but maybe in hallowed towers and creaky halls of tradition and dogma...
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Oh please! If you don't want to, or can't, ride with a bit, go do something that allows this. If you want to compete in any of the disciplines that have tack requirements, just learn to use the tack properly like everyone else tries to.

And I'd challenge you on the idea that "riders know best"; many, many riders have no clue whatsoever how bits work or how to use them properly. I spend half my time as an instructor adjusting tack, suggesting alternatives and attempting to teach people how to use their bodies, including mostly their hands. There is no horse riding civilisation in history that has not used bits once they have discovered them.
 
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macarthur said:
whats hysterical - its true that's what the petition is doing taking on the rule book ! :-) no hysterics from me ...but maybe in hallowed towers and creaky halls of tradition and dogma...
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It's the use of language like the above, IMO, as well as the use of concepts like 'Free country' (seriously?) and yelling questions about having 'Choice' in caps (and you do have a choice - don't join an association when you don't agree with their rules) that make you less likely to be taken seriously.

Frankly, it's not bitless per se I don't agree with (in the right hands, just as the right bit should be used in the right hands). It's the removal of such an intrinsic part of the tack that associations and their existing members, by implication, agree to the use of and have to have - it's how this would be judged and the unlevel playing field it has the potential to create.

End.
 
Maimed previously of course!! - that happens a lot - look at Toy Town , broken , fixed and repaired ditto many many horses that compete and have tendon strains and so on. there is a point when they can return to work - live another day - pass the vet. That's OK, to pull a tendon and return, even break down again... box rest and return... no one asks if its a welfare case then - its just sporting injuries? but if the bit is uncomfortable (like a head shaker and nose nets) to a horse or he cannot cope with it in his mouth OR he loses some teeth so it cant sit straight - why cant he go bitless? in the Netherlands they ran a 3 yr pilot and found that the bitless horses rode well - dressage judges didn't note any difference in the way of going - so they have allowed bitless in pure dressage. so why not the UK?! - why shouldn't we have a choice? No-body is saying BAN BIT's - its about what suits the horse for optimum performance and welfare. What are bitted riders fearful of - ditto we ask for nose bands to be optional too for bitted horses?! What about this simple request creates such quaking riding boots! :-)
 
Perhaps I should ask Bernie to change the F1 rules to allow me to compete using my family saloon car and be competitive? I'm sure I have the right to compete!
Sorry OP but your opening statement of owners know whats best for their horse often doesn't stand up in my limited 49 years of experience
 
That's a truly dreadful statement - are you saying then that there are thousands of inept riders who don't know how to ride or what to ride in with their horse? Why cant any fit for purpose horse compete if that's what the horse was bred for... not a donkey in GP! <snigger> all though in fairness lots of donkeys riding in them ;-)
 
Macarthur could you please use the quote button as this is confusing. Thanks.

We prefer bitless and always ride bitless at home but, if we go out, we realise that there are rules that have to be adhered to and so we teach a horse to go both bitted and bitless. I do think if a horse is capable of doing a dressage test bitless then it should be allowed to.. BUT, with a restriction on the type of bridle used; eg the German hackamore with the very long shanks would not IMO be acceptable and neither would some that fit excessivelky low and tight across the nose.

It's a minefield. This argument has been simmering away for years and is no closer to resolution. I suppose we also have to ask where it would end if bitless were allowed? A cordeo might be a tad risky round Badminton ;)
 
macarthur said:
That's a truly dreadful statement - are you saying then that there are thousands of inept riders who don't know how to ride or what to ride in with their horse?
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No I'm saying that they can only base their decision on their experience gained so far. I would strongly suggest that there are HUGE variations in riding ability and knowledge. The ability to decide what is best tack to use requires knowledge and experience, not just being the owner of the horse.
What you should have said is the owner has decided what they have found to work best given their riding ability and experience to date. very different from what might actually be best.
On a more basic level, yes have I come across a fair number of people who own horses that can neither ride to any significant standard or have the knowledge to know what to ride in. You can own a horse without either element being achieved.
 
macarthur said:
Maimed previously of course!! - that happens a lot - look at Toy Town , broken , fixed and repaired ditto many many horses that compete and have tendon strains and so on. there is a point when they can return to work - live another day - pass the vet.
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I suggest you look up the definition of "maim". It refers to a permanent disablement, usually of a limb. So a horse who has been so dramatically maimed, would most likely have been shot. Not worrying whether it can compete bitless at dressage.

What about this simple request creates such quaking riding boots! :-)
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I see no quaking riding boots. You are just posting some very bizarre things that people aren't taking seriously because of, as stated above by another poster, your hysteria.
 
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