Riders.

Sparkles

Sparkles

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 April 2009
Messages
7,571
Visit site
Are 'newer' people today getting SO fixated on having the perfect position, but whilst being completely ineffective??

Just as a general view really, not a personal attack, just a discussion as a whole.

I mean, yes, having a good solid position is fab don't get me wrong, BUT, what happened to commiting to riding the horse and being effective and fine-tuning?? I've seen a lot of just 'sitting there looking pretty' going on at at the moment and I don't get it?! What happened to getting the horse 'up' and working and thinking about fine-tuning your riding, focusing your mind and striving to get results, rather than 'the horse wont do it' attitude?

What happened to all 'true' leg into hand, engaging hocks, etc. Especially jumping....When it did get height obsessed now?
I was always taught the jump was useless to focus on, as if you got everything else correct before and after the fence, the jump would just flow. So providing you got the horse there between your hand and leg, got your pace/approach/striding/etc spot on, then what the jump looked like didn't make one bit of difference - be it a 1ft cross or a 3'6 spread. It's like an equation and the jump was the finished result if you did it correct.

I mean, I'm not the prettiest rider and have my faults like anyone, BUT, I like to think of myself as hopefully a bit effective despite looks? I can sense mostly when things are going to happen and correct them, try to correct faults, etc.
I myself, love the 'less is better' approach. My lad, even though he may never set the world alight, I love the fact that I do not need much rein on him and am getting to the point schooling him now where you literally DO just look you're sitting there doing nothing [even though your are > Fine tuning!] No kicking, or swinging on the reins, etc. Just quiet, effective riding. [Much to be improved still like always! But just generally] I've worked my butt off for a year now to get him to this point.

I know you want a balance of both...but when the vanity approach over rules the effectiveness, then future riding styles over the years will be interesting.
I mean, how many riders today do you know who go from 'the riding school horse' to 'the private horse' and fail? Or equally so, then have the effectiveness for the problem horses, quirky, breakers, etc. Where 'just sitting there' just does not cut it?!

So what are your views? Are people getting more and more fixated on 'how they look' as opposed to 'how effective they are'?

Discuss :)

NB - It is a discussion, not an arguement or anything like that. Just want your views on it :)
 
Last edited:
Can only go on what my daughter tells me but she recently had a lesson on a schoolmaster with an instructor she used to work for a few years back.

They worked a lot on her position and the instrustor was saying that my daughter probably didn't get a lot of chance to concentrate soley on her position because her normal lessons were all about her horse (who is essentially green) and so she'd probably adapted her riding style to be effective with a green horse rather than technically correct if that makes sense... I'm probably not explaining too well...
 
I get what you mean, but there is pressure from all areas to do well. So i suppose people want to be able to do it, not 'fine-tune' and make it perfect.

Although, times have changed. I agree, as you used to see riders on XC courses, hailing taxis, feet by their ears and hand under their nose, and its suprising how effective they are.

Tim Stockdale, i must say, looks like a sack of spuds when on a horse, but he is one of our best riders. He won the King George V, not an easy feat.
 
Haha very deep! :D I'm impressed!
I think you're right - it is getting worse - it seems to me to be more about who can impress more but not actually work on the underlying basics which everyone needs to have!

I had a jumping lesson today and yes, whilst I want to be more comfortable with bigger jumps (reliving my younger fearless days!) I understand that there is NO point going into a jump without having that horse under control, working well including engaging hindquarters and having its focus on you - we spent the first half of the lesson making sure the horse was working effectively then we popped the first jump. I enjoy jumping, enjoy pushing myself and achieving and most importantly, overcoming my fears.

I see a lot of the younger generation talking about how high they jumped, how big their horses are, how fast they can run, how far they can go and sometimes wonder what happened to fine tuning the basics?
(not saying they are all like this!)

I understand where you are coming from completely and I hope you can understand where I am coming from re jumping! :)

ETA I think Tiggerlilly just hit the nail on the head with the word "pressure" - from parents, RIs, friends, other competitors, owners, trainers, even the horse at times...maybe some people feel they have to be more and more effective and build on what they already have, rather than polishing the foundations.
Also, I understand different horses need different riding styles so I guess position is important in that way but I am more likely to worry about whether I am doing it right from the horses' point of view, not whether I look good doing it :) I guess it doesn't matter as long as you are getting the result and improvement you are looking for.
 
Last edited:
Ditto, I'm agreed in the fact that yes, a good balanced solid position is extremely important....however, sitting there and just expecting then for the horse to do everything because of that fact is a different thing. Learning to go with the horse from your pelvis/hips/back/etc and allow yourself to 'adapt' to whatever the horse throws in [spook, allowing lengthened strides, sitting up to shorten strides, odd dodgy jump stridings etc] not just sit there 'straight backed' etc.

And pushing to do things out of capability without putting the work in needed before, ie, the basics. If you're not getting it right over smaller fences, why then go and crank jumps up to huge things just because they 'want to jump big'?

It's just seeming to be a case of wanting to run before you can walk I've found. I remember for ages staying at small heights and really working on me along with everything else, until we got it 'perfect'. Until I was at the point continuously, I did not once get to go higher. And then after that, I honestly realised what my instructor was on about when the horse was there in my hand etc and that you could aim them at anything once they got to that point.

(I mean I can't talk now, my jumping is appalling...but, I do try hard at it and try my best and don't overface the horse [mainly because I'll be overfaced before the horse is! LOL]. But my jumping and riding wasn't toooo awful before doing the teams etc lol ;) .)


ETA - LOL. You replied the exact same thing, ie, jumping, as I was replying! :) Great minds!
 
Last edited:
when I sat my pony club tests, paticularly the B and the A, the one thing I was always picked up on was that I was an effective rider but not necessarily the most elegant... I guess I'm not, but it is difficult to be elegant when you're my shape! I took my A on Ron, who is a giraffe or a camel at the best of times, especially when he thinks you're going to do flat work indoors (he thinks its too small or something!). I could see the examiners looking at me on the biggest horse in the group looking like a numpty and thinking that I'd never passs. When we swapped over I got put on a little sports horse thing that had been a bit nappy with its rider, but it went nicely for me. Meanwhile the girl that got put on Ron had a right job to get him to canter. He's not numb, quite the opposite, but you have to mean what you ask him, but she was so busy being in the right position, and worrying about how it all looked that she wasn't being effective.

so yes Binky, I agree, a good position is a good thing, but only if you're effective! Be effective first, then train your body and the horse to be more correct. IMO anyway!
 
I have lunge lessons to work on my position but in my normal lessons on my horse I do not care about how I look as long as I'm being effective.

I do know what the perfect position is but I do not see the need of doing this perfect position all the time if you are not going with your horse.

I have taught soo many people who ride so stiffly and do not go with the horse as they always try to maintain this perfect position. Someone has told them to sit up and now they look like boards.
 
Having started riding again after a break, I wanted to go back to basics with the goal of achieving 'invisible' aids.

At first I struggled with working effectively on the horses, and I had a eureka moment a few weeks back (it's on my blogs somewhere) when I realised that before I made the aids invisible, I had to make them effective.

So now I'm trying to get the job done, even if it looks messy. Once my aids have the desired effect with little use, then I shall start refining...
 
meant to say...

that's where I think the Mary Wanless approach works so well... it teaches you tocorrectly and be effective. Just wish I could find someone near me to teach me, reading the books is all well and good but it's difficult to see objectively what you're doing while you're doing it!!
 
Could it be that 'newer' riders expect all horse to be push button robots that only require a passenger as opposed to a rider? :D

Personally I feel like a sack of spuds on a horse ATM, I am unfit, weak and out of practice and could really do with some lessons on a nice schoolmaster aswell as some on the lunge!
 
marmalade76 said:
Could it be that 'newer' riders expect all horse to be push button robots that only require a passenger as opposed to a rider? :D

Personally I feel like a sack of spuds on a horse ATM, I am unfit, weak and out of practice and could really do with some lessons on a nice schoolmaster aswell as some on the lunge!
Click to expand...

SNAP!! :D Kelly been out of work for 6 months and just come back into gentle hacking so YO doing me a real favour getting ME back into work haha!
We will get there!!!!!
K x
 
Interesting question. I will freely admit before I gave up and sold my handsome lad I felt I got lost. I started having regular lessons on getting him going better and achieving a good position etc and became a totally ineffective lemon and lost myslef completely.

My instructor was very good but I was concentrating on the wrong part of the message and began to feel I didnt know how to ride anymore. The more I tried to improve my position and look graceful and tidy the worse I felt and have to face the fact I am more of a wobbly cabbage than a graceful swan and now I dont ride at all as I have put myself of riding completely.
 
i went though a phase of just 'looking pretty' and i was forever being shouted at for NOT DOING ANYTHING!
but with persuvirance(sp, sorry) i have morphed into good position + effective (finally!)

i think when i was taught, position was everything - before i could actually ride which is why that happened. then with some experience i begin to actually think once i knew i was secure and then began to ride & react as opposed to 'sit'.

i wouldnt knock that way of learning though, i wouldnt change how i ride now for anything.
 
TBH having pretty much only ridden a horse trained to grand Prix (dressage) over the last 7 years, I am really worried that my effectiveness may have lapsed! As I am looking to bring on a baby over the next year or two this is quite a concern... I miss the slightly less fine tuning that you need to do with an unschooled horse!

With my big fella I just 'hover' and look pretty (well as pretty as someone with a GG chest can look!) but I've ridden a few babies on my search and BOY do I get out of breath... had to do some running on the treadmill to improve my fitness... and there I was thinking I was fit cos I could work a horse for an hour!!

How easily one forgets!

Blitz
 
I think part of it may be the more structured approach to everything nowadays. I don't know how it is in the UK but here in the States, kids lives are ridiculously structured. Dance class, karate class, soccer practice, and riding lessons - kids don't do a lot that's just for fun.

When I was learning to ride, much of what we did was just fun riding - hacking out together, learning on the fly. We also took lessons but the majority of our riding time was on our own.

Most of the kids I see riding are constantly under the supervision of an instructor. There is rarely a chance for them to just experiment and find what works, or to ride by trial and error, or even just to have fun. So I think a lot of that focus on being "correct" comes from that. Also, so many of the kids I see riding are on finished horses so the effectiveness they need is more a matter of punching the right buttons rather than really having to work at riding the horse.

All generalizations of course, and plenty of exceptions but it does seem to me that more and more young people are losing the ability to ride on the fly.
 
Totally agree BMB, I think the best way for kids to learn is to teach them the basics and then let them get on with it, that way they will find balance, feel and confidence whilst having fun. That's how it was for me, yes I did have lessons but was left to my own devices most of the time and I managed to survive without breaking any bones or any ponies!

I don't know about anyone else, but when I was a kid all I wanted to do was charge about, jump and win rosettes. These days the kids do walk & trot tests on the lead rein - ugh!
 
Binky01 said:
Are 'newer' people today getting SO fixated on having the perfect position, but whilst being completely ineffective??

Just as a general view really, not a personal attack, just a discussion as a whole.

...................
So what are your views? Are people getting more and more fixated on 'how they look' as opposed to 'how effective they are'?

Discuss :)

NB - It is a discussion, not an arguement or anything like that. Just want your views on it :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, haven't had time to read all previous posts on this but just wanted to chime in quickly -

I have never wanted to be a form v function type rider, but as I learned to ride more or less on my own (never had a proper lesson til about five years ago and started riding in the US over 20 years ago). I had learned much of what I did before by watching/reading etc as lessons weren't that accessible for me. I watched equitation riders and that's what I thought was the "way to do it". However, I never developed a feel for the way things should feel. Now, with a very good RI, I'm changing my approach, my attitude and sometimes it's less pretty than other times, but overall am becoming a better, stronger, more effective rider. Lots and lots of broken eggs to make this omelette! :D
 
have to say show jumping you see alot of "pretty" riders and then when you look closely you see they aren't actually doing anything, it's the same people that get on very well with their very expensive highly schooled horse but the "difficult" one gets very quickly replaced. I have a very well schooled horse but he is an absolute s**t if you don't ride him properly so i learnt how to ride and sit pretty
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top