Ridiculous exclusions on SEIB horse insurance. Is it worth arguing?

charlimouse

charlimouse

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I have just bought a new horse to event. In the past I have not insured my horses (barring public liability and 3rd party), however after a recent run of bad luck with injuries etc I am wanting to insure my new horse for vets fees. Therefore I am not particularly clued upon how insurance works, but I feel this is taking the pi$$ somewhat :o.

SEIB are the only company that is willing to under insure my horse value wise (he is a valuable horse, and if I insure for his full value it makes the premiums a bit ridiculous), and I only really want vet fees covered. To keep the premium down I have even put on a £500 excess, so I am only going to claim if it is something big, not every last little knock.

The horse passed a full 5 stage vetting less than 3 weeks ago. The only thing the vet noted was slight hoof imbalance in the front feet due to some not so brilliant farriery, which he said would easily be rectified with decent shoeing. The horse also had had an access in a hind hoof 4 weeks before the vetting as he had stood on a nail whilst the farrier was shoeing him, which had been caught straight away and caused no problems. Other than that the horse had a completely clean vetting, and the vet noted on both of the above that they had no clinical significance (so long as I used a better farrier ;)).

I had a call from SEIB who say are excluding his front feet completely and also they are excluding any problems that arise due to the farrier, and also anything that is abscess related (in the hooves):eek:! Now to me this seems very excessive, As if he got laminitis he wouldn't be covered, or if he broke a pedal bone in the field etc. Also I bet they will try and wriggle out of any lameness issues trying to say it is farrier related (the farrier I use is very good, and we are working on getting the hoof balance correct).

So for those who are more knowledgeable that me, is it worth trying to argue the excess with them, or would it be wasting my time? If they refuse to budge on the exclusions I won't insure, as to me it isn't worth it, and I have got the money (all be it my savings which I would rather not use) for vets bills. The person from SEIB that I spoke to had no equine knowledge, so was unable to elaborate further on exactly what wouldn't be covered. Is this to be expected from insurance companies, or should I ask for the exclusions to be reviewed?
 
Are you certain none of the others will insure him? I'm surprised about that!

Try AmTrust - if you ring them they have a competition horse policy and because they underwrite themselves they are really easy to discuss exclusions with. They pay out super fast too.

Re the xs/claims. Unles you inform the insurance of every non-routine vets visit (ie anything that isn't jabs/teeth etc) then your insurance is invalid. So if it goes over your xs there's no sense in not claiming. I am sure you know this but many seem not to realise! Last time I made a claim the insurance wanted a full vet history - must have looked like a telephone directory!!
 
ETA - my horse is with amtrust and certainly isn't insured for his full value! Mostly they don't care about under insuring?
 
I wouldn't give SEIB the steam of my....., well you get my drift.

Dont waste your time and money, use another insurance company.
 
SpottedCat said:
Re the xs/claims. Unles you inform the insurance of every non-routine vets visit (ie anything that isn't jabs/teeth etc) then your insurance is invalid. So if it goes over your xs there's no sense in not claiming. I am sure you know this but many seem not to realise! Last time I made a claim the insurance wanted a full vet history - must have looked like a telephone directory!!
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Is that just SEIB or every company?
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
Is that just SEIB or every company?
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Yeah Petplan asked me for that when I made my most recent claim for hepatitis. I just put - see her vet certificate and all the claim history you have on file. They paid. Bear in mind my pony is twenty two and they have probably paid out over £15,000 in vet's fees over the thirteen years I have had her.

OP - I have tried arguing exclusions with Petplan - sometimes they have removed them, sometimes they haven't. For example, when I had her vetted she had a slightly rubbed tail but no other signs of sweet itch. When I got a vet to say she didn't have sweet itch they lifted that one.:)
One year she had a slightly bruised foot, I was an idiot fifteen year old who knew nothing and called the vet in a panic, the vet was an idiot who diagnosed shivering and stringhalt after doing nerve blocks wrong. A few weeks later the farrier came out, spotted the bruise, put hind shoes on and fixed the problem immediately. Petplan completely refuse to reconsider to this day (twelve years later) because 'shivering and stringhalt are incurable neurological conditions which can never get any better'. :confused:
Another time she had this very nasty virus which paralysed her oesophagus and she had her first few days up in horsepital. They excluded her larynx and pharynx as a result. They have said they will remove the exclusions pending normal endoscopic examination but I don't want to either pay for the exam or put the pony through it at 22 so I figure I will just take that hit. If she ever needs an endoscope to check out her sinuses or something I will ask the vet to look a little further down but I don't really think it's worth doing specially.
Most of my other exclusions are the ones I really want lifted for things like laminitis and arthritis for the things she is really likely to get and need expensive treatment for - unfortunately, Petplan knows that too!
 
I am with NFU and it is the same with them too. Read your insurance small print carefully as there is loads you can do to invalidate easily.

There also can be an issue if you don't call the vet immediately you realise there is something wrong with the horse eg if lame but you decide to treat it yourself and wait a few days to get better etc.

My insurance gets invalidated if my pony does not have his teeth checked every year and I do not keep his vacinations up to date or if he does not get seen regularly by the farrier.

Broke_But_Happy said:
Is that just SEIB or every company?
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I've had no problems ever with Seib in 15 years of ownership, with 4 different horses and well in excess of £10,000 of claims.
And I managed to get a fairly similar exclusion lifted from roo's initial policy after 1 year.
 
OP I'm insured with SEIB, I had exclusions placed on my horse for similar reasons last year after his vetting, they did say they would lift them after a years cover if I got it in writing from my vet and farrier that he'd had no further issues. Just renewed last week, exclusions have been lifted!
 
christine48 said:
We've given up with insurance and put the money into an account each month.
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This - had bad experience with vet bills insurance for a horse that had cancer (E and L).

His vetting noted he had some bramble scratches on his fetlock so they excluded all cuts to the legs from the insurance.
 
Pet Plan also state that teeth should be checked yearly and vacs should be up to date otherwise insurance is invalidated. Also vet should be called straight away or you have to give reasons why vet wasnt called in first 24 hours.
When I told them my horse was having a tooth out even though I didnt claim they tried to exclude all his teeth until I argued that the tooth was gone so how could it cause him any trouble and they agreed to take the exclusion off .
Having said that when they had to pay out full £5000 for his fractured Tibia I thought they would exlude all his legs or maybe at best the whole of the leg he fractured but they only excluded anything to do with the fractured Tibia of that leg so was quite pleased.
 
Cheers folks. Will look at Amtrust and have a chat to SEIB about the exclusions. Christine 48 that is what I have done for the past 6 years, but after having a few vets bills with previous horses in the past few years, that fund is getting low, so if there was to be a large vets bill I would have to dip into my other savings, which I would rather not have to do!
 
Perhaps try another insurance company, or once the balance issues are resolved with regular farrier attention, pay for a re-vetting?
 
My horse is insured with KBIS and at first had an exclusion on all claims related to the neck, because he'd had a severe cut on his neck requiring vet attention!
I phoned them to query and they asked for more info - I didn't really know any more than what I had initially told them but we went over it again and they lifted the exclusion. Def worth challenging x
 
Argue the point with the insurance company, I've done this in the past and it's worked to my benefit. I would insist there is no issue with the feet, the foot imbalance was due to previous farrier, ask for the exclusision to be removed immediately or after 3 months with a new farrier & vet check. Keep contesting until you get as close to what you want. FYI - KBIS is pretty good, was with NFU for a few years but they went down hill in my opinion.
 
BBH - all of them have this policy as far as I know. Never seen an insurance document which doesn't require you to tell them whenever it's anything non-routine. Amazing how many people don't read their policy documents. A lot now stipulate that a qualified farrier must be used too.
 
I had exactly the same issue with SEIB and dealt with customer service people who could learn a bit of humanity. Finally got so irritated arguing with them I moved to KBIS, not quite as bad (although still annoying exclusions) but at least they seem to employ actual people, you know with brains and some sort of ability to listen and comprehend (bit fancy!)

TBH I now think all insurance companies, plus vets (for writing stupid irrelevant things on the history and not keeping proper records) are useless!!
 
I can't change insurance companies without a 2 stage vetting being done - what's with that? I've had him 8 years! :confused:

I'm considering not insuring this year but am a bit worried something will then go terribly wrong.

I haven't declared mud fever that turned out to be an abcess this year (don't ask :rolleyes:). Surely you don't have to declare an abcess caused by wet weather?
 
My old boy had this...........he stood n a nail. that never punctured his foot in any way shape or form, the sharer was just being cautious calling the vet. But as it was on his file..........it was now excluded!

I was RAGING.
 
I've recently given up insuring mine as the exclusions were ridiculous and not even based on actual diagnosis.
I'm now very relieved to know I can call a vet out if needed without worrying how it will affect my insurance policy.
 
If you had the vet out for the mud fever/ abcess it will now be on your vet history. If you claim they will ask for your history so yes they will exclude it. You should inform them of any illness, treated by a vet or not. But not everyone does :0
 
Im with KBIS and theyve done the same with me. Ive just had to pay out a big vet bill because they wouldnt cover it and Im considering cancelling my policy.
 
I second talking to Amtrust. I've been with them for years and they're generally really good. They aren't the cheapest but they do pay out, and quickly.

I bought a new horse about 4 months ago. A few little things came up on the vetting - crack in a hoof, a little mark on sheath and a couple of abrasions. They excluded skin conditions and sarcoids because they said sheath was a strange place for a random mark. I did query it but they just said if nothing changes in 6 months and the marks all hair over, they'd remove the exclusion. If it turns into something, they will exclude whatever it turns into and remove the others. As it happens, about 2 months in, the little scar thing turned into an occult sarcoid (ie, skin thickening and scaling) so it's been treated. I've told Amtrust and now just waiting for them to make a decision on lifting the other exclusions. They excluded the crack on his hoof but all 4 feet are insured, they haven't put anything stupid on.
 
ecrozier said:
I've had no problems ever with Seib in 15 years of ownership, with 4 different horses and well in excess of £10,000 of claims.
And I managed to get a fairly similar exclusion lifted from roo's initial policy after 1 year.
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This^^

Too be honest I think at this time the exclusions are fair. BUT they will lift them in the future when you can get a letter from vet saying foot balance is now resolved and horse has been working fine without any problems.
 
When I had my horse vetted a note was made of the swelling of one hind leg due to lymphangitis damage. I'm also with SEIB and for the whole 17 years since tendons and ligaments of BOTH hind legs have been completely excluded, even though the vet said I wasn't ever to worry about the swelling, it didn't affect any aspect of her legs and was purely cosmetic . Ironically though, I made a claim for her epilepsy in 1998 and this exclusion was lifted a few years ago, and yet it is an ongoing condition. There is no logic whatsoever. Have to say though that SEIB were always fine to deal with and paid up promptly.
 
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