ridiculous spooky horse.. help...

charlie76

charlie76

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 March 2006
Messages
4,665
Visit site
OK. As you know I am not a novice but this horse has me stumped and pulling my hair out. I have had him for about four months. He came with a spooky streak in him but its getting silly.
He spooks every day without fail in the arena. This can be from a minor jump To a full on whiplash spin or he will run off with his head up for a few strides like he is being chased.
Its never at the same thing and not in the same place. He spooks at noises too. Other half sneezed in the arena tonight and horse Was off!
I have tried being calm and nice, tried letting g him look about first, tried working him deep and round, On a long rein, on the lunge. He still does it.
A small part of me thinks he does it to get out of work.
He Also has a fast reverse button that he uses in the arena and out hacking if he doesn't like something.
I'm afraid to say That tonight I really told him off as its getting beyond a joke and I am starting to not want to ride him as he has me on edge which transfer to the other horses.
Ignoring him doesn't work nor does tiring him, he will still spook at the end of a hard session.
He is also easily distracted by activity outside the arena.
Its such a shame as he is otherwise a super horse.
Any suggestions. At the end of my tether!
 
have you experimented with calmers? I know some people have had success with these. What about trying sheepskin/wool/ whatever it is, in his ears that some people use with nervous horses, I know he spooks at sights as well but might be worth a try although just like calmers you would have to check the rules on competitions. My lad used to spook a fair bit and still does a little sometimes now though not to the extreme yours does by the sounds of things I just had to press through it calmly and if he did it several times at the same thing after Id walked past it repeatedly - sometimes just because it was fine in walk didnt mean it was fine in trot *doh* - Id give him a little telling off and he would usually quit it. I also found working long and low for 15-20 mins before picking him up has improved the quality of his work and his concentration. We did try RelaxMe when he was younger as it was specifically for nervous horses rather than excitable horses (according to the blurb), didnt work for us (hes a TB) but others got good results from it. good luck.
 
He's not Orange by any chance is he?!!!

seriously, what is he being fed and have you ruled out ulcers/pain etc.

Is he lacking in confidence and up to the work you're asking of him.

Other than that some horses are naturally spooky and on 'red alert' and takes a long while before they settle at a new place if their temperament is on the reactive side.
 
Is he finding being on a busy yard unsettling, perhaps he is just not as relaxed as he needs to be in his box/field so that when he is working he is still edgy.
 
Could you try blinkers aswell as the ear covers? And if you get to end of your tether I really wouldn't rule out an animal communicator. A friend got me a reading for a birthday present a couple of years ago (she got it as a joke as I really don't believe in that sort of thing), however, the things she told me about my horse made my hairs literally stand up and really spooked me out!!
 
May be try blue chip karmer also, but i did find magnitude works very well, along with very low in starch feed, like the winergy feed range, with alfa A. The sheep skin cheek peices also can work if he is loosing concentration and needs to focus more.
 
my horse is very like how you describe...and yes its very frustrating :eek:
i have recently put him on Equifeat Cool calm and collected- but TBH i'm not so sure that its made a difference and i'm thinking of taking him off it.... generally he is a horrid spooky idiot at home and then not too bad away from home- he'll hack fine and at other arenas he might have the odd small spook but nothing on the scale of what he does at home which are true whiplash spooks/rider dislodgers :eek: He competes at BE Pre Novice and jumps XC fine so i'm inclined to think with mine that its an evasion tactic rather than anything else. As per my post earlier in the day he's generally a bit idle and can be stuffy about accepting the leg...i think this is when i uses the spooking to get me- he's not in front of the leg so its easy to spook and because i'm expecting a spook i daren't push for that bigger movement...as you have found i am reluctant to give him any leeway in terms of longer rein length as that often ends with me eating dirt!

anyway...some things that i have tried with success are:
- draw reins. somedays i just work him in draw reins. i know they aren't everybody's cup of tea but he can't whip round/shoulder drop quite so effectively with these and they do help me to be able to boot him forwards out of it. if he's been especially bad then the next session i will just keep the DRs on and he learns from this and is generally much less spooky the next time

- lots of transitions and changes of direction. literally confusing the hell out of him and not giving him chance to think. mine uses things around the arena to spook at so i work a lot off the track- i don't even give him the chance to have have a debate

- ideally if he spooks i try to kick him forwards into a speedy canter as its harder for him to spook in canter and easier for me to sit to. once in canter i then make him do lots of sideways and changes within the pace to give him a 'hard time'

obviously you are a much much better rider than me but hope the above ideas help. i nearly fell off the other day because someone had a drag on their cigarette so i know how you feel :rolleyes:
(oh and i try to not tell him off...it doesn't end well i find...usually with me on the deck...if he spooks i try counter flexion so he's almost asking for inside flexion if that makes sense?)

edited to ad a pic...look familiar?!
picture.php
 
Last edited:
I'd go one further and stuff his ears - it's amazing the difference it makes. Not legal from dressage though, so only a stop gap measure.

Valerian? Again, not legal to show on (although now FEI legal to use at home, which I thought was interesting) but might give you a "way in" to change his mind a bit.

As already asked, what is he eating? Is he out? Is he warm enough? (Don't laugh, I had one that was impossible if he got cold. Actually, he was generally impossibly sensitive and, years later, was found to have a systemic herpes infection . . .)

Have you tried him on a bute trial? I know you say everything has been checked but frankly, it's impossible to say without reservation that a horse is uncomfortable. I know vets here are very funny about bute trials but if you have a "tame" vet it's worth giving it a shot. Do a proper one, though, not a day or two. And, of course, resign yourself to the fact that if he does improve and then fall off again when you stop, you'll likely have to look further.

Is he spooky when he's not being ridden?
 
TarrSteps said:
Is he spooky when he's not being ridden?
Click to expand...

I'd say that's a key question. Mine came to me terrified of everything---spooked at brushes, people trying to touch him, people holding dressage tests, boulders, baby birds, bits of sunlight on the ground, me farting ( :o , nearly fell off laughing after that one!)...anything, really. Tore himself loose multiple times when tied up, and dropped me in a puddle the first time I sat on him (I think it may have been a dead bunny, that time). It can be very scary, because it feels like he's completely blocked out that I'm actually sitting on him. Main thing that seems to have helped is time, and building trust. He's far calmer than he was, but it's taken a lot longer than 4 months to get there.

Other thing I'd second is the magnesium question. IIRC, Magnitude recommends a dosage of 1g/100kg or thereabouts. I don't know what the evidence is, but some of the diet gurus suggest that that would still be a low dosage, if the diet is lacking in magnesium. Perhaps ask cptrayes for some references about magnesium supplementation?
 
Hi, my retired mare was and is very similar to this. I found getting cross with her, made her far worse.
Looking back now, having her properly in front of the leg was the key, but she was another one, who would drop behind it given half a chance.
Out hacking she was a b*gger, she'd walk past a combine without batting an eyelid, but spook and whip round over a piece of new grass or me redoing the Velcro on my gloves.
Schooling she was the same, but less so jumping...
I evented her and she would often go up the centre line and spook at the judges car, or the letters, or the flower pots...... Very very frustrating!
Xc she was very good, with the fences, as long as they were types she had seen before, but would be spooking at things around them for the first 5 or 6 fences....
Never tried calmers, but as I said, really think having her properly between hand and leg worked the best.
Good luck!
 
How about adapting his regime. You may be doing all of these, but if he were mine he would be out 24/7, eating only roughage, with playmates to use up any excess energy.

Mine is spooky, he had a 2 hour hack Sunday, & hadn't the energy to spook coming home, he behaved like a police horse. Have you any mega hacks to work him through this regulary.
 
I'd really evaluate what you are feeding him - cut out commercial cubes/mixes and if you feed AlphaA or blue chip then try cutting those out too (I have known a couple of horses react really strongly to those 2 products for some bizarre reason).

As SM say, 24h turnout on these types can work very very well in some cases.

Then as others have said stuff ears and try french blinkers.
 
Not to help much but my mare was like this from the age of 4 to about 7 1/2. She is still a bit of a wimp but hardly ever spooks now. I also tried everything and it didn't make much difference, she just eventually outgrew it, good luck, it is frustrating!
 
diggerbez said:
my horse is very like how you describe...and yes its very frustrating :eek:
i have recently put him on Equifeat Cool calm and collected- but TBH i'm not so sure that its made a difference and i'm thinking of taking him off it.... generally he is a horrid spooky idiot at home and then not too bad away from home- he'll hack fine and at other arenas he might have the odd small spook but nothing on the scale of what he does at home which are true whiplash spooks/rider dislodgers :eek: He competes at BE Pre Novice and jumps XC fine so i'm inclined to think with mine that its an evasion tactic rather than anything else. As per my post earlier in the day he's generally a bit idle and can be stuffy about accepting the leg...i think this is when i uses the spooking to get me- he's not in front of the leg so its easy to spook and because i'm expecting a spook i daren't push for that bigger movement...as you have found i am reluctant to give him any leeway in terms of longer rein length as that often ends with me eating dirt!

anyway...some things that i have tried with success are:
- draw reins. somedays i just work him in draw reins. i know they aren't everybody's cup of tea but he can't whip round/shoulder drop quite so effectively with these and they do help me to be able to boot him forwards out of it. if he's been especially bad then the next session i will just keep the DRs on and he learns from this and is generally much less spooky the next time

- lots of transitions and changes of direction. literally confusing the hell out of him and not giving him chance to think. mine uses things around the arena to spook at so i work a lot off the track- i don't even give him the chance to have have a debate

- ideally if he spooks i try to kick him forwards into a speedy canter as its harder for him to spook in canter and easier for me to sit to. once in canter i then make him do lots of sideways and changes within the pace to give him a 'hard time'

obviously you are a much much better rider than me but hope the above ideas help. i nearly fell off the other day because someone had a drag on their cigarette so i know how you feel :rolleyes:
(oh and i try to not tell him off...it doesn't end well i find...usually with me on the deck...if he spooks i try counter flexion so he's almost asking for inside flexion if that makes sense?)

edited to ad a pic...look familiar?!
picture.php
Click to expand...

THIS!!!!! Mine is exactly the same, will whip around at the drop of the hat and we cannot have a schooling session at home as he's so spooky. If you’re on a decent feed programme i.e. low starch sugar etc I would change the magnitude as magnesium calmer will only work if they have a magnesium deficiency, which many horses don’t! I use feedmark, steady up, it makes him more controllable! The use of training aids works wonders as It controls the level of spin - draw reins- harbridge- bungie etc. Also lots of leg I always ride in spurs if he's going forwards into a contact then the spooks are less and more manageable!
Good luck
 
Thats what he is like! Great pic!
Thank you for all your replies, I will try to answer everything ( don't you lot sleep!)
Feed wise, he is on nuts , alfa a and magnitude calmer. I will cut out the alfa a and replace with fibregy and see if that helps.
I will also try and cover his ears.
I did think about trying draw reins , just to get him to focus and concentrate as he has the the attention span of a gnat!
He isn't spooky in the yard when being handled, quite the opposite, he is bold and in your face but when I turn him out he creeps along looking for things to spook at.
He is 8 yrs old and he is a warmblood

he isn't really lazy, in fact, when I first get on him he is ultra sensitive to the leg and almost rushes away from it, once he is worked in he is fairly forward and accepting of the leg.

He isn't clipped at the moment as he has a fine coat but I do rug him very well so I can't imagine he is cold.

I will also try the sheepskin covers, although we have dressage on sunday so he won't be able to wear them then.

oh and yes- he is ORANGE!
 
I use Feedmark Steady up, it takes 10 days to kick in at full dosage, then less once things have settled down, but it is magnesium based!
Start by cutting out all hard feed, soak all hay and haylage, no treats, no licks NO SUGAR. Dengie molasses free chaff [the basic one] with his mins and vits or Fast Fibre by Allen and Page.
Go through all his current feeds looking for anything high in sugar, any cereal, or high energy. give it away.
Lots of WORK, lots of hacking out initially at the walk, walk walk walk, no excitement, no canters, only use the uphill parts to trot and canter, but if cantering make sure you have plenty of hill ahead of you so you are not trying to pull him up as soon as he gets into stride. If he bucks kick him on through it, use a neck strap to keep yourself in the saddle.
If he will lunge , practice response to voice commands, upward and downward transitions, vary the diameter, vary the rotation, try long reining, anything to keep him interested, if you keep trying to overcome his problems you can get in to a loop of misbehaviour, he keeps repeated unwanted behaviour and you get more and more frustrated.
In the arena do in hand work over poles and through labarynths, introduce interest with no excitement, do turning round your body, backing up, yielding to your aids [schooling whip].
Keep to a daily routine, try to get him out in a field three hours a day at least, get an instructor to come up two or three times per week, this will sort itself out, eventually.
Praise him for good behaviour and ignore the bad, make sure you are not praising him for being spooky, ie patting him and talking nice, ignore it.
See endospink [youtube], and be glad you don't have his horses to deal with every day!
 
I'm another who has a horse just like this. I havent read all the replies, too many, but they sounded good advice. Mine is on nupafeed and brewers yeast which seem to be helping.

Depending on your horse though, getting mad at him wont help, it didnt with mine. I decided that no horse could be so scared of everything, and started punishing him whenever he spooked. I think generally he was genuinely frightened, although I think he uses it to get away with stuff as well. Well he just got worse and worse.

Ive found that completely ignoring him when he does spook, staying very relaxed, and he then trusts me more. We do just dressage and getting him to stay relaxed all the time is certainly a challenge! But if he is so good, he is worth perservering :)
Look on the brightside, you will have such a good seat! Im finding that I can sit too all sorts now!
 
Lots of good advice here...not too much to add except a couple of little things from when I used to hunt my friend's horse who was like this.
He was also a nervous wreck in his stable - had to be very careful that no-one walked along the side of the stable block unexpectedly or opened a bag of shavings nearby when I was tacking up - he went through a lot of girth straps with sudden explosions!
The worst time to ride him was on a Friday night - the other horses' day off, so in the school on my own, and him seeming to know that the next day was hunting.
He would spook and peep until I lost my rag and smacked him.. then he'd take off, bucking.
Found it better to ride in spurs and send him forward straight away...used to get on and trot off straight away, and keep trotting until he settled.
Also found it useful to work on a diamond, rather than a circle...no excuse to spook at something in the corner, and lots of turns to keep him busy and in front of the leg.
If he was feeling like that, I'd also ride him in his pelham, so that I could keep him very round.
Out hacking, we also did a lot of steady trotting and not too much walking because he was good at diving into the middle of the road, or taking off if he saw a motorbike/lorry/tractor. Approaching anything spooky, I also kept him in a slightly shoulder in right position to give me control of his huge front end. Should add that I rode this horse almost exclusively side saddle, which did give me a bit of an advantage in some situations!
 
I really feel for you, sounds horrid. Its hard to tell if its genuine fear or being rude but it does sound like a mixture, maybe he started being scared and then realised that some of the things he does when scared are effective evasions. If its the latter then you do need to get him to understand that this behaviour is not on to prevent it escalating.

I would probably start by cutting feed right down to next to nothing, possibly down to nothing but hay or a handful of nuts plus calmer. You can always increase it later, and feed more hay to keep condition on if you need to.

If he is starting to get to you then maybe just put him on the lunge for a couple of weeks and dont face the situation until you feel "right, time to get on with it ".

If his preferred mode of pratting about involves sticking his head in the air (it sounds like that is often an element) then I would try a standing martingale or the draw reins. You dont need to have them tight, you can ride with them so they are neutral if he is behaving but will kick in if he inverts. You can fasten them to the girth buckles rather than underneath and they will have more of a siderein action. If he starts up then hopefully you can put your leg on hard whilst still having a contact rather than him being miles above the bit and this should give you some more control and enable you to ride through it so that each time this comes up you win the battle. I have not got anything approaching the issue you have but my 5yo who is not brave at all did start to discover spooking as an evasion and I deployed the draw reins for a week or so and the problem disappeared (at least for the moment).

With the noises I have no idea if music in the arena might help? May drown them out plus get him used to noise.

I would definitely get your trainer out to help as often as possible (maybe even sit on it?) and if you can make sure you ride with a knowledgeable friend or your OH or someone else on the yard so you arent alone when you are trying to deal with this. You will be braver if you feel that someone will scrape you off the floor and catch the horse if needed and that will better equip you to deal with it. Obviously no sneezing from the person though...

Let us know how you get on, good luck.
 
Oh what a joy these are . . definitely second getting onto forage and taking any alfalfa and sugar out of his diet - have known horses so sensitive to sugar that carrots set them off - let alone molassed licks or polos. Woudl not have believed it unless I'd seen it.

Don't think you mentioned turnout? Would be tempted to rug up well and chuck him out at night with plenty hay, if you're not already. Amazing what a difference that can make too.

He still could be a candidate for magnesium deficiency, I would recommend giving him straight MagOx instead of the marketed "calmers" - has much more Mag in it and you will soon know if it's making a difference or not.

Second the bute test also - worth a shot.

In the yard, if he is in your face, you may find that getting him to mind his Ps and Qs on the ground (in minute detail) will improve his attitude. Have worked with several horses where this has been successful, it is a bit of an art form to do really well though.

In the school would definitely be giving him a LOT to do and monitor his ears - any time his ears prick forward instead of being back listening to you, immediately turn him to get his attention back (& ears back on you). Small circles and mini serpentines, interspersed with "busy" fast work and then halt to rest. If he won't give you his attention at all times, it doesn't really matter what movements his body is doing, he is not mentally "on the aids".

If he decides to engage reverse, go with him and get him to reverse right across the school if necessary - makes it your thing not his thing.

May be worth doing some "spookbusting" type work with him if you can bear it. Not very traditional but can break the negative cycle and give him some confidence.

Can I just say how nice it is to see someone who is as accomplished as yourself, who is still willing to ask for help and ideas when you have a problem. Much respect to you.
 
I am never afraid to ask ( although I have been PM'd on other forums telling me I look incompetant and stupid for asking as I should know how to sort things out) , I always think there is a chance to learn and just sometimes someone mentions something you might not have thought of.
I can't turn out 24/7 however he is out from 7am until 4pm so quite a lot.
I will cut out the hard feed and see what happens although I think he was on next to nothing when I got him and he was still a monkey with his old owner.
He was pretty good for a few weeks but seems to have got his feet under the table!
I did take him to another arena last week and he was much better ( only spooked once) but they doesn't help at home.

I don't think he is in pain as he is very supple and loose to ride ( when he isn't spooking!!) and moves beautifully. He also jumps without spooking ( sod!)
 
If he was good for a few weeks at first, I woudl definitely go down the route of getting him attentive and mindful on the ground, and concentrating on attention first when riding.

Can you pop a fence up when you're schooling, could use it as a sort of reward, and to make things more interesting from his point of view? If he is better elsewhere, it does sound like he might be getting a fit of the boredoms(casting no aspersions on your schooling!but some seem to need loads more going on than others.)
 
My horse can be incredibly spooky but it's an evasion rather than fear. He will spook at a particular place in the school so if he starts doing that I bring him back to walk past the area he will spook at and then back up into trot - doing that a few times and he gets bored and gives up on his 'game' If he is on one of his totally stupid days then I have my I-pod with me and play the music through the speakers and sing along; this relaxes me and in turn helps him relax.
 
Agree with what most people have said. I have an Orange that I cannot feed at all! He has ad lib hay and a scoop of H&P nuts (and looks fantastic and is hunting twice a week) Cannot feed carrots, polos etc. Personally, he sounds as if he is being naughty and maybe is a bit bored in the school and therefore looking for excuses. I would perservere with the hacking - maybe box him up and go somewhere different. Try to keep trotting/cantering - ours is a nightmare when walking. Agree that a standing martingale is a good idea. I love draw reins, but you do need to know how to use them. If you cannot do alot of hacking, put trotting poles in random places around the school which may distract him. Keep going and good luck.
 
Fibre only diet, low starch/suger feed if he needs that little extra, Relax Me is a great mag type calmer, could be that your hay/hayladge or grass may be a little too good which can also make them a stupid even if it doesn't effect others.

Bobbing a radio on while you work in the school, making things less quiet so he won't be on his guard at every little noise, it will also help to calm you (even if your not uptight or nervous) it still takes your mind of waiting for his next spook now you've got used to it.

More changes to your schooling work (simple change of direction more and transitions) so his mind is constantly on you and what you are going to ask for next rather than him tootling round and round looking for the next monster to get him.

Sorry I may of repeated what others have already suggested. :)
 
How do you deal with his spooky moments, as in if he is clearly not happy about a corner and its the scary corner, are you a kick him on and get him round or are you a softly softly.

I only ask because as i have discovered with my horse making him and getting after him doesnt work with him. He is also a 8 year old spooky warmblood!! lol and to be honest i have had to accept to an extent that he is like that and to just baby him about it, and eventually he will forget about it, but if i get after him and ride him harder forward he will loose the plot and it becomes a much bigger issue in his head. I almost have to treat him like a 4 year old about it.
I think this can very much a warmblood attitude, some of them really they dont like the legs and stick approach. I have to do lots of transitions back to walk before the spooky bit, then build up to asking for walk just before the corner then trot while in the scary corner but always quiet and no stick on hard legs.
I had one RI who was getting me to smack and kick him for 'taking the pee' when coming to the corner and it just resulted in a full on rear and very upset horse after almost 30minutes of trying to get him past it without thinking of spooking.
Different RI who is far more understanding of warblood types and hot blood horses did the above with me, and after 5 minutes he was back in the game and being told he was a big brave boy everytime he went past the scary corner without spooking.

But i will say since being on the Equifeast he has improved massively, it has taken a good 5 weeks to actually see a proper difference in his spookyness but it is really improved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top