Riding and Road Safety - 3rd Survey!

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Rose Scofield

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13 December 2012
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I started to do the survey, but do not understand why one brand of equipment is being singled out?

I always wear fluro/reflective equipment, as does my horse, but it is not of the brand you mention. I actively dislike the way that "Polite" equipment sets out to look like Police equipment.

So, I am interested to now why that particular brand is the only one being asked about? Is this a marketing exercise?
 
I've filled it out. My near miss that I've recorded wouldn't have made any difference had I not been wearing any high vis though, as it involved someone speeding over the brow of a hill- he couldn't have seen us with or without (Definitley not excusing him)!
 
There is multiples of the same question in it. Not sure why one particular brand is being asked about but with no other question to ask if a different brand was being used? Knowing the brand they have paid for this lol
 
I completed your survey but wanted to add the following. We live in France and don't use lights as we don't need to exercise in the dark. We have trained horses for endurance and so my stable jockey is always 'crewed' I am in a car all the time and use the car to protect our young horses.

Twice recently our jockey has been threatened by drivers of huge tractors, sounding their horns and trying to chase the horse. Sadly for one stupid person, the rider was a Republican Guard (a Gendarme) so a complaint was made to the local Mayor. However, I now have a video camera with me at all times, when we need to use our local roads.

Safety for horses and riders is not a British issue it is EU wide.
 
Red-1 said:
I started to do the survey, but do not understand why one brand of equipment is being singled out?

I always wear fluro/reflective equipment, as does my horse, but it is not of the brand you mention. I actively dislike the way that "Polite" equipment sets out to look like Police equipment.

So, I am interested to now why that particular brand is the only one being asked about? Is this a marketing exercise?
Click to expand...

Same here.
 
Just to make things clear - I am not at all connected with the Polite brand - it is a new aspect that I wanted to include as on the last survey comments were made suggesting that quite a significant number of riders were using that type of equipment and there was not at that time any way using the data collected that I could 'single' it out to see if there were separate correlations.
So in this survey I am trying to understand if this type of equipment has a significant effect.
If you have a read of my previous research you will see I have found that contrary to anecdotal belief wearing fluorescent/reflective gear does not avoid near misses - very surprising! The only other published research (in this case looking at cyclists) found that fluro equipment also does not have a significant effect on drivers approach and caution used.
As I am now a happy hacker and have been for several years I feel we are a little neglected in the research field so as many completions as possible will really help.
Thanks to everyone.
 
Rose Scofield said:
Just to make things clear - I am not at all connected with the Polite brand - it is a new aspect that I wanted to include as on the last survey comments were made suggesting that quite a significant number of riders were using that type of equipment and there was not at that time any way using the data collected that I could 'single' it out to see if there were separate correlations.
So in this survey I am trying to understand if this type of equipment has a significant effect.
If you have a read of my previous research you will see I have found that contrary to anecdotal belief wearing fluorescent/reflective gear does not avoid near misses - very surprising! The only other published research (in this case looking at cyclists) found that fluro equipment also does not have a significant effect on drivers approach and caution used.
As I am now a happy hacker and have been for several years I feel we are a little neglected in the research field so as many completions as possible will really help.
Thanks to everyone.
Click to expand...

Hi, still do not understand why that particular brand? Unless it has some sort of impregnated anti metal anti magnet impregnated?

Until recently I was patrolling on Police horses, so decked out in yellow, with the chequered band, and "POLICE" written big on back and front. I had plenty of "near misses" and we also had some where drivers deliberately drove at us, including one where a horse was decked to the floor and dragged along the floor. Not sure how "Polite" written on the back would help?

Maybe cars would not like to hit a polite rider? as other than that they seem pretty similar to other brands.
 
Hi there, yes I agree that the brand and those like it do seem to be similar to other fluro equipment, but unless I have data on this I cannot say either way if you see what I mean?
I decided to include it to examine the stats and add more information to my profiling.
I find it fascinating that since it have been investigating road safety (2012) there is still such a lack of evidence regarding fluorescent equipment.
 
I completed it but having had a near miss where my horse was actually in contact with a car, no damage to horse but car did not stop and probably was scratched, I was perplexed that no further questions were asked/ opportunity to put details in, about the incident which had nothing to do with whether reflective wear was used or not as the car just tried to get through a gap that did not exist, the driver was totally aware of what they were doing so no amount of high vis would have helped, a camera may have stopped them trying but generally in my area the drivers are excellent.
 
My near misses haven't been because drivers haven't seen me, quite the opposite they want to pass me on blind bends ending in near head on collisions.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Same here.
Click to expand...

And here. Personally I think this sort of thing actually angers drivers and I try to avoid that.

Filled it in anyway. I do wear a camera but I don't display any warning signs that I am wearing it. I would be interested to hear if that made any difference.

I've not had a near miss in the last year (not since the incident that made me get my camera about 18 months ago) that has made me think we were about to be hit but I've had several 'what were they thinking' moments where cars have gone head on into other cars while overtaking me and a huge amount of people passing too fast or too close for comfort.
 
SuperH said:
And here. Personally I think this sort of thing actually angers drivers and I try to avoid that.

Filled it in anyway. I do wear a camera but I don't display any warning signs that I am wearing it. I would be interested to hear if that made any difference.

I've not had a near miss in the last year (not since the incident that made me get my camera about 18 months ago) that has made me think we were about to be hit but I've had several 'what were they thinking' moments where cars have gone head on into other cars while overtaking me and a huge amount of people passing too fast or too close for comfort.
Click to expand...

So far I have found displaying cctv does help as do others who wear my vests.
 
Rose Scofield said:
Just to make things clear - I am not at all connected with the Polite brand - it is a new aspect that I wanted to include as on the last survey comments were made suggesting that quite a significant number of riders were using that type of equipment and there was not at that time any way using the data collected that I could 'single' it out to see if there were separate correlations.
So in this survey I am trying to understand if this type of equipment has a significant effect.
If you have a read of my previous research you will see I have found that contrary to anecdotal belief wearing fluorescent/reflective gear does not avoid near misses - very surprising! The only other published research (in this case looking at cyclists) found that fluro equipment also does not have a significant effect on drivers approach and caution used.
As I am now a happy hacker and have been for several years I feel we are a little neglected in the research field so as many completions as possible will really help.
Thanks to everyone.
Click to expand...

I'm quite concerned at your conclusion that "contrary to anecdotal belief wearing fluorescent/reflective gear does not avoid near misses - very surprising!"

It may not prevent near misses, that is more about driver behaviour issue, but I would say it prevents Near Misses becoming Hits, therefore actually the number of near misses could be an indicator of its effectiveness as the point is to reduce hits.

I would be very careful about the way you phrase your conclusion as you appear to be saying "Dont bother to wear High Viz" Dont forget that its not just drivers that see your high viz, I wear high viz despite the fact that I hack out within the boundaries of private estates primarily because of the air traffic, I've had low flying military transports radically change their flight path after seeing me in my High Viz and also mountain bikers tell me that they are able to see me from hundreds of metres away and therefore slow down rather than "Ambush" me in the woods.

I'm referred to as High Viz man where I keep my horse and its a bit of a joke to the other riders, I wear a Karrimor running top which is a Gillet, its light easily visible and gives me somewhere to keep my phone and makes me visible particularly as I ride out on my own 50% of the time.

For those of you who doubt the need, Google "Heather Bell - Chinook Accident", I also had a friend suffered severe spinal injuries from a similar incident.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=713099#X1lQgXdTvJUpwW66.99
 
Thank you for your detailed reply. This is exactly why I am researching the wearing of fluro/reflective equipment. Nowhere has any research been carried out to show that it has any effect - as you say this is very peculiar and I myself worry that because the only research that has been peer reviewed and published that has reported on it (mine and the Walker study) has found that it has no significant effect in preventing near misses in my case and distance given to cyclists in Walkers case.
This is why I am extending my research as much as I can (I am not funded and it is all done in my own time) to find out why.
We certainly shouldn't tell people not to wear it (I always do) but can only keep trying to encourage scientists to experiment and find out what can stop these road traffic accidents involving horses.
When I initially started researching road safety my hypothesis was that fluro/reflective equipment would be proven to reduce the number of near misses if worn by horse or rider. Now that hypothesis was non-significant I am trying to collect more data to track down why. I have colleagues who look at human visual senses and it could be something to do with our sight and its function.
In the meantime please ask as many people as possible to fill out my survey!
For information I have a raft of other research taking place around this subject, but it takes time and money...
 
Just another note - the data collected is processed to pass peer reviews so your mention of seeing if wearing fluro equipment prevents near misses is exactly where the statistics play a part. I was most surprised it did not - see above!
Thanks.
 
equi said:
So far I have found displaying cctv does help as do others who wear my vests.
Click to expand...

Interesting thank you. Anyone know where I can get a tabard that says please pass wide and slow on the back (in big letters, no other brand names or anything) and have camera in use or cctv or something along those lines on the front? Then I can experiment and see if I notice a difference. I don't want to lose the please pass wide and slow on the back as I think some drivers don't have a clue and at least I'm asking them to do what I would like them to.
 
You can get tabards printed up to your individual design at some places. We will be testing one like this in our proximity research very soon.
Thanks to all who have completed so far please keep sharing!
 
I have filled it out, as someone else says it would be more interesting to know if hi viz prevents those near misses becoming hits.

Personally I would like to see some research done into the colours of hi viz, as I think a lot of drivers do not pay attention to the yellow anymore as everyone is in it, traffic/other workers, cyclists, horses and the first two of those do not need to be passed as slowly or carefully as a horse, so I believe they only slow down at the last moment which can already cause problems. However other colours are more unusual and therefore attract the drivers eye and the slow in advance. There is also bright sunlight to consider as a cyclist near me was killed despite being in yellow hi viz but the sun was low and he couldn't be seen we had seen him a lot so we knew this although were not there on the day.

However the RAF are actively persuading people to go yellow and not pink or orange as this is much more visible from above, I agree this is probably right except in the situation above where there is background light. I have recently seen a new range of hi viz showing two colours and I think this may be much more effective. Or even if riders use on for their horse and another for them.
 
Thanks for that! We have looked at various colours and find that none have a significant difference over near misses. I think the conversion rate is interesting, though the reason I have not looked at this is because I feel near misses are bad enough and because there are so many of them they provide a lot of raw data.
We are looking at various ways to make riders more visible.
Thanks for your question!
 
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