Riding crops? Your opinions

DappleGreyDaydreamer

DappleGreyDaydreamer

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I got into an argument with someone at my yard today about proper use of riding crops. I have a young Connemara who can be very unresponsive off my leg, so I carry one to quickly reinforce my aid before he learns bad and lazy habits, however I would never use it to such force that it hurt him or he became afraid of it. She also has a youngster, 6 months younger than mine, and I think she can be quite excessive with her use of the whip if he makes a mistake. For example, I would only ever tap my horse once, lightly on the shoulder or behind my leg, but she'd hit hers about five times in a row. She thinks I'm too soft on my horse, and I think she's too hard on hers, and we came to blows when she shouted at me to 'slap him harder' when he refused a jump.

Please don't think I'm berating her, as I'm really not - her horse, her problem, as far as I'm concerned - but I was just wondering what your opinions were on the correct use of a riding crop?
 
I have a horse who has been hit a lot with a whip and she wasn't remotely bothered about it when I got her. She came like this and the dealer I bought her from told me he "cured" her bad behaviour with his blue pipe (he cured nothing, unsurprisingly!). She was a napper as well as being an ignorant pig to handle, and I'm sure had been walloped plenty in her short life.

I tend to ride with a schooling whip and I will give one tap immediately an aid is ignored however, I rarely actually use it.

This has meant the desensitised horse is now a lot more sensitised to the whip and actually reacts to it, which I think is better. She also does not nap now either.

You want the horse to react to the lightest of aids and without fear of the rider. Timing is everything and one tap at the right time, is far more successful than beating it senseless, as my success with this formerly very difficult horse would prove!
 
One tap to emphasise a point should be sufficient with a young horse. Or for most horses to be honest.

A desensitised horse will need more to get a reaction (but then I'd be inclined to try to "re-sensitise" it by using it very little as a last resort) but no youngster should ever need more than one little tap on the shoulder or behind the leg as appropriate.
 
Depends on a lot of things really, the horse, the situation, the type of whip. For example I like a nice flappy short crop (cottage craft ebay one) for jumping and hunting if I need a quick tap on the shoulder to get over a fence but would use a "whippy" schooling whip for my very lazy (in the school) Connie who is a devil for ignoring my leg.

How he reacts to it varies, sometimes he bucks in annoyance, sometimes he reacts quickly and gets off the leg (ideal) and sometimes he completely ignores it and it wouldn't matter how hard I whacked him so there is zero point!
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
To me, crops grow in fields. .... :D
I carry a whip when working with a horse - lunge whip, hunting whip, schooling whip, jumping whip or a show cane
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I thought the OP had missed out "on" from the title too...

I will use my whip in a manner I feel appropriate. I'm not inclined to beat the living daylights out of them, nor will I fanny about if a sharp crack will send them forwards. And timing is everything.
 
JFTD said:
I thought the OP had missed out "on" from the title too...

I will use my whip in a manner I feel appropriate. I'm not inclined to beat the living daylights out of them, nor will I fanny about if a sharp crack will send them forwards. And timing is everything.
Click to expand...

Totally agree about timing that is the key to it all.

I love your sig strip by the way.
 
I think if the horse refused the jump out of naughtiness (and not from greenness) then I would use the whip harder than normal. Horse needs to know that stopping is not an option. Plus they shouldn't really be given opportunity to stop if horse is green - then the horse has been overfaced.

But your horse your method. Don't get involved with other rider.

I've never actually used my whip when jumping current horse (sj or xc) only lifted it (hunting style) so it's ready if needed. Plus helps when doing a big jump with drop into water to keep balance :p
I've used a dressage whip for schooling on flat to enhance and back up leg.
But I've no problem using the whip as needed.
 
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I only basically tickle my horse with a dressage whip on his quarters if he is being lazy with his back legs and not picking them up. Works fine for him. He gets a slap with it on the shoulder if he bucks or does something stupid to get out of working which is rare that it happens. I scared him once enough with one tap that he rarely dares to do it again he knows when he has been naughty and learns. I hate hitting him even once but i don't tolerate bad behaviour that will lead to dangerous behaviour. I generally just have to shout no at him though and that gets him going "oh crap that was bad". He doesn't like raised voices and knows that means he has been naughty.

5 hits in a row is far too excessive though. The jumping coaches I tend to use tell you to hit the horse 3 times if it does something wrong (refusing a fence, bucking etc). But i think just once should be sufficient don't see why 3 is necessary.
 
Owing to my right leg not being quite fully functional, I do always carry a stick when riding. Mostly, I use it as a right leg replacement for lateral work (gentle, consistent pressure, or a series of light taps, depending on the horse), but it does also come in handy for delivering a firm slap down the shoulder in case of potentially-dangerous misbehaviour (if it's just a little silliness I growl instead), or a tap behind the leg if said leg is being ignored.
 
I'd always carry a whip (I mostly hack). Depending on the horse either a short one if I think I don't need it (eg. just a backup), or a longer schooling whip if I know I need it. With some horses I want to have extra control of keeping the shoulder in whilst on the road, for instance, if I know they tend to fall out.

But I only carry it as an aid extension and not for punishment. A swift immediate tap combined with other signals should be enough, I don't see how the second and fifth time will help matters much.
 
Crops grow in fields!

It also depends on the situation for me. No I would not beat/thrash them... But sometimes more than a light tap is necessary
For me stopping at s jump (if they are relatively experienced) & napping require more than a light tap.

And NEVER in the shoulder
 
I always carry a whip ( crops grow in fields ) .
I use it behind the leg if the horse is not sharp to the leg .
I use it further back to quicken the hind leg although I have never been one of those clever people who can touch the horse on the hock with a long whip .
I use the whip on the shoulder when the young horses fall out in ' the that bit you fool aid '.
 
I personally wish I could grab the whip off 'those' types of people who merrily lay into their horses for refusing at shows, and slap them back! God knows what they get up to at home if this is how they treat their horse in public :( I used to carry a whip, purely out of habit but only ever used it to tap for backing up the aids, Ive never had to pelt my horse hard let alone several times - awful IMO and I hate how its seen as acceptable :( I dont ride with a whip at all anymore - gave it up about 3 years ago! I generally always have sensitive enough horses that I never have a need for it and they all want to jump willingly - if they began refusing then I'd try to work out what went wrong, not just beat them up. Too many people immediately blame the horse for either a) their own awful riding or b) asking too much of the horse or c) the horse has a genuine problem! It's funny how its always the same people who end up with horses who refuse quite regularly... that to me says it all.
 
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LittleRooketRider said:
Crops grow in fields!

It also depends on the situation for me. No I would not beat/thrash them... But sometimes more than a light tap is necessary
For me stopping at s jump (if they are relatively experienced) & napping require more than a light tap.

And NEVER in the shoulder
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Agree with this... I'm am also intrigued by the amount of people who have said a tap on the shoulder for misbehaviour. Generalising a little, you would tend to want to ride forward out of any misbehaviour i.e. buck, rear, nap, spook... so why not a smack behind the leg to send the horse on?
Just an observation from this post, and also the reason I would tend to ride 'naughty' horses with a schooling whip so a hand off the reins is never required.
 
gingerlegs said:
Agree with this... I'm am also intrigued by the amount of people who have said a tap on the shoulder for misbehaviour. Generalising a little, you would tend to want to ride forward out of any misbehaviour i.e. buck, rear, nap, spook... so why not a smack behind the leg to send the horse on?
Just an observation from this post, and also the reason I would tend to ride 'naughty' horses with a schooling whip so a hand off the reins is never required.
Click to expand...

As far as why I personally do it, it's the way I was always taught.

I suppose it depends a bit on the type of misbehaviour and what sort of stick I'm carrying, though - a tap down the shoulder brings the head up if they've dropped it (bucks with the head down are not good fun to sit), and it's a lot easier to be quick about a shoulder-tap than a slap behind the saddle when you're carrying a short stick.

If you've got a schooling whip, behind the saddle is easier, but there are some horses I'd never get on with a schooling whip because it winds them up appallingly (some of them really don't like the tickly quality of the lash-end, and whilst they might be okay with a leather rattail end, I don't own one like that so we work with what we've got).
 
Never on the shoulder because this is negative/ backwards whereas a horse should go forward.
With regards to schooling your horse should respond to correct leg aids to move the shoulders/ quarters etc. A tap on the shoulder does not back up these aids in any functional way. Whatever the exercise shoulder in, traverse, half pass... The horse should move forward with impulsion first and foremost above all. Unless they are moving forward from behind lateral work is pointless get the quality first then develop the angles movement. The whip backs up the leg asking for impulsion not the aid for the movement.

Plus, flapping about at the shoulder inevitably interferes with a consistent contact
 
gingerlegs said:
Agree with this... I'm am also intrigued by the amount of people who have said a tap on the shoulder for misbehaviour. Generalising a little, you would tend to want to ride forward out of any misbehaviour i.e. buck, rear, nap, spook... so why not a smack behind the leg to send the horse on?
Just an observation from this post, and also the reason I would tend to ride 'naughty' horses with a schooling whip so a hand off the reins is never required.
Click to expand...

I get your point, I just find my horse reacts better to a telling off if its on the shoulder than anything else. Guess he now just associates his shoulder with a telling off, whereas behind me is 'come on, work a little harder please'. More often than not I do just growl at him basically which is all I could do when he randomly threw in 3 bucks because I wouldnt let him follow another horse and I didnt have my whip. He got the point and didnt do it again but still would have been more handy to have a whip at that point to reinforce it a bit stronger with him as that was very naughty behaviour for him.

When he naps now, I just ignore him and kick him forwards, use transitions a lot and make him listen to me. I find that works so much better than using the stick on him, he finds the stick a little scary at times (think someone may have used it a bit too aggressively during his training before me) but he is getting better. I even managed to actually put a lunge whip over his back after he had been loose schooled and he just stood there, usually as soon as you pick it up, he runs away from you. Once he realises I dont care, he gets bored with it and just does what he's told.
 
As an ex endurance rider, carrying a whip of any type took a bit of getting used to and I still never carry one out hacking.

Schooling - yes to back up my leg if needed and I also use it on the shoulder if needed. Current young horse pushes out thru her shoulder and I find a tap there works well.

As for using a whip to punish, no never. I can't think I have ever needed to punish a horse - correct or reinforce maybe, but not punish.
 
Never ever, should a whip or 'crop' be given to any 'rider' that can't!!.. . ride properly that is...especially and most importantly kids., who can't ride, whether independently or not and have no understanding of the meaning or consequences of what they are doing.

If you would not be happy giving a whip to a child to use carte blanch whilst walking the family dog, why would you be happy to let them out on their own pony, with a whip?
 
I will very occasionally use the whip on a shoulder - Alf is a monkey for spooking and spinning out hacking, he pops his shoulder out and sets against me just before he spins. I tap him down that blocked shoulder (on the rare occasion that he gives me enough warning of an imminent swoop), and he is usually so horrified that he forgets to spin.

Mostly I use it behind the saddle to reinforce my leg aid
 
I carry a schooling whip when riding my cob who can be VERY lazy when she wants to be. If she ignores me, she gets a tap behind my leg, simple as that. I will not tolerate her ignoring me simply because she cannot be bothered to go forward. She was worse when I got her, primarily due to her being about 75KG overweight and very unfit with it. She now understands (Generally!) that when I ask she goes and if not, she gets a tap. I have never had an instance where I have felt the need to smack her repeatidly to get my point across - and nor should anyone that rides and owns a horse. As JFTD said, timing is also very important when reinforcing aids - if they ignore you and you don't get an immediate response, the back-up with the whip or crop needs to follow immediately unless you want to confuse the horse.

She can also be nappy on occasion when out hacking and will try and spin for home so a schooling whip is very useful to give her a tap if she ignores me asking her to straighten and go forward. She does not respond to being smacked on the shoulder so at this stage, a crop is useless to me.
 
If you keep having to hit the horse for the same things you need to examine your timing, consistency and your training of the horse.

I would tap a shoulder if the shoulder were in the wrong place, to get the horse's attention on that part of its body.
 
tallyho! said:
A blue pipe???

There's an idea!!!
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A piece of Elkethene pipe is great - spin it around it makes a good sound - I used to carry a length with me in the paddock when feeding out so that I didn't get mugged - no need to hit anyone with it - just the sound kept them back. A friend uses a length when leading her youngsters - she threads the rope through it, ties a knot so it doesn't slip, great for preventing the horse from turning its head towards you and then getting in front of you.

As for a Whip - It has to have an effect, many riders are rather pathetic with it, while others go overboard - and it should be used behind the leg - not on the shoulder unless you are working on the placement of the shoulder. Used on the shoulder can cause the horse to back off.

Use to
 
I don't actually use a whip at all. I exercise with a hunting whip which is purely for opening gates. Anyone who has tried to wallop a horse with one of them will know its a very pointless exercise as its not actually very easy to use as they don't bend. . Anyway - I just don't like whips at all. I had a pony when I was much younger that I properly walloped for something it didn't do right because I hadn't asked the pony correctly because I was ignorant and I lost my temper. It was totally out of order of me and I felt so guilty about it - I still do when I think about it and this is nearly 25 years later. As a result I just won't use a whip these days - I just use a lot of leg!!

This is lucky for my current horse too who would have heart failure if I smacked him so we are both content with no whip!!
 
gingerlegs said:
Agree with this... I'm am also intrigued by the amount of people who have said a tap on the shoulder for misbehaviour. Generalising a little, you would tend to want to ride forward out of any misbehaviour i.e. buck, rear, nap, spook... so why not a smack behind the leg to send the horse on?
Just an observation from this post, and also the reason I would tend to ride 'naughty' horses with a schooling whip so a hand off the reins is never required.
Click to expand...

When I use the whip on the shoulder I am not putting the horse forward I am drawing it's attention to what it needs to straighten .
I rarely need to use my whip to put my horses forward because they are trained to be very forward and chosen for their natural desire to be generous with their energy well more than 50% of the time I am tapping the horse to get it's attention to place I want them to be thinking about hence why you use the whip of the shoulder sometimes .
 
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