Riding in a dutch gag

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Lucy_Nottingham

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Im currently schooling my friends horse,
she has put her in a dutch gag (started in it last year) after being ridden in a snaffle, but she was rather strong in the snaffle.
She is certain that she goes well and happily in the gag, however the mare still goes round the school like a train with her ears up my nose, and I am quite a strong rider, yet I often struggle to get her to steady up and drop her head into an outline and nice contact........
i only ride her in a dutch gag, only other bits I have ridden in are snaffles, pelhams, drop cheek piece snaffle, but not a dutch gag......
so is it me not riding properly with it? or is it she is just being awkward? if so does anyone have any hints for me to get her into an outline to work? (as her bum is lacking muscle!)

Thanks
 
Might be worth trying her in something else - we bought a horse that was ridden in a dutch gag but it actually made him worse - we put him back in a snaffle, in a school and he actually was better. Not saying snaffle is the only way but worth playing with a different bit!
 
well this is the thing, I am not really supposed to change the bit she is in!!! I wanted to change her to my pelham, but my friend doesn't want her to as she is adamant she is happy in it!!!
would it be worth moving the reins to the snaffle ring of the gag? that way its more like a drop cheek snaffle?
 
If she doesn't want the bit changed then I would suggest changing the ring.
If horsey is better amybe try sneakly changing to a snaffle. Alot of horses get less strong when they get older. I'm back to sj in a snaffle after sj one of mine in a pelham for over 2 years.
 
I'd definitely give it a try. You're not then changing the bit, just its action. Some horses just hate the lever action of a gag! Just do it somewhere enclosed in case she realises you have less brakeage!
 
well when she was in a snaffle she was never particularly bad with me, she is 9yo. Just rather marish!!! and is a clydsdale x tb! so big, but often gets a tb-y attitude and energy boost! hehe but walls always help in a snaffle!

I don't hack her, her mum does that! i am the horrid cow that schools her! mwahaha! I can't really change the bit to a snaffle, so I thought maybe changing the ring would be the next best thing, as if I pull back where it is at the moment, there is suddenly two bay ears up my nose as a result.....

so lessen leverage seems best option? there is not like a "special way" to ride in a dutch gag then is there?
 
I'd say if you can ride in a pelham, you're fine!!! I'm sure its just the leverage! She'll probably love you most if you make her bit kinder in her mouth!! I had a loony mare and people thought I was nuts when I said I was going to stop riding her in a gag and put a rubber mouth snaffle in - it was the best thing ever - the softer the bit, the better she went. My brother was riding her, forgot I had changed the bit and put a gag in, and disappeared across the countryside unable to stop!
 
If rein is any lower than the biggest ring then you should use two reins. Look at the length of the shank and compare it to other bits, such as a pelham. You would never ride with just one rein on the bottom ring of a pelham but many people do in a dutch gag on the second or third ring. Ok, so no curb chain but still a HUGE amount of leverage on the poll. Whatever pressure you put on the rein is multiplied by the length of the shank. Thats probably why the horse sticks its ears in your mouth when you take a contact, because of the pressure behind the ears. I have never seen a horse go well in one to be honest, they often hollow back/stick head up/snatch head down/etc, anything to get away from massive pressure on poll. Definately move the rein up to the largest ring and see how the horse goes and maybe discuss different options with your friend and show her what happens when you ride?
 
Sorry, was so busy going on about the bit i forgot bit about outline help! If she is on the forehand and tends to pull or lean then her backend will not muscle up. Do lots of exercises to get hindquarters to work, such as loads of transitions, raised poles, leg yielding, circles, etc. You will only get a true outline when the hocks are engaged.
 
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. I have never seen a horse go well in one to be honest, they often hollow back/stick head up/snatch head down/etc, anything to get away from massive pressure on poll.

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I agree with this in general, I prefer to ride in a snaffle and always have my tb in one even for sj and xc and she is fine. However I have a welsh sec d who really likes her duth gag. Its a happy mouth single joint with a leather curb attached. I use one rein on the bottom ring and she actually leans into it no attemted evasion at all. She didn't like it without the curb- I think because the cheek pieces rode up into her eyes.

She is probably a very singular case but I from when I got her she has always been quite anxious about everything and I think she see's the pressure from the gag as security- like she doesn't have to be in charge any more. The gag still won't always stop her she can be quite happy to run straight through the action but she is much more relaxed in it than any of the other bits (kimblewick, pelham, french snaffle, hanging cheeck) that I've tried her in over the last 6 years.
 
you will struggle to get a correct outline in a dutch gag as what you are asking for and how the bit works are the total opposite you are asking for bend and outline and the bit is using leverage to force things my suggestion is to go back to the snaffle for schooling and use a different noseband if needed
 
Ye see I agree with you all!!!! I don't like dutch gags!!! (or gags full stop really! only ever used in xc for brakes!)
However
This is not my horse and I am having to work with what Iv got......
but there seems to be a consensus of double reins....... so I will try it tomorrow by moving the main rein up to the biggest ring and put the curb rein on.. and see how we go from there.
I agree that I think the leaverage is putting her head up my nostrils, so hopefully by having this loosening of pressure but still have it applicable if required....... will help alot!

I forgot to add that this dutch gag has a rolling ball in the centre of the mouth piece (is it called a peanut?!) so I don't awnt to aggrevate the mouth more than it already is.
The girl seems v fond of this bit in the horse, so I am just trying to find a way to make it work for our teamwork!

and thank you teddy, I will try some of those movements, I do try to leg yield her as her balance is pretty naff on lateral full stop, but unfortunatly she is currently running if I do them any more than trot, so we shall see what tomorrow entails!!!

Thank you all for all the help and suggestions!!!

I much prefer snaffles!!! (pelhams for showing!)
 
I used to have a pony on loan who came with a dutch gag, one rein only on the bottom ring.

He hated the bit's action and transformed instantly when I changed him to a myler comfort snaffle. He instantly accepted the contact, became beautifully rounded and bending improved no end.

If you have no choice but to use the gag I'd suggest put the rein on the biggest ring, then it has more of a snaffle action and the horse should become a bit happier in her mouth.
 
Ok well tried it today!
Left the normal reins where they were, but just tied them up so they served no purpose. Then attached my spare pair of reins on the snaffle biggest ring bit of the gag!
WELL
90% good 10% HAHA YOU HAVE NO BRAKES!
So it was an improvement, and I picked up the lower reins when she got really strong, but its definetly just the bit action she doesn't like, if I give her my hands REALLY far forwards then she is fine and takes a contact but then rather than working to it decides haha no contact etc so ploughs through it and sets off!!!
damn mares!!!

but no I was really happy! she only reared twice as well! wohoo!!! (my leg is now sore though!)

Thank you for all your suggestions, I will keep working on lessening the pressure for her as much as possible!
x
 
Good for you for persevering (sp!). The schooling to get her to use her hindquarters will get her to carry herself better and hopefully she will plough less! So nice to hear someone is prepared to put in the time and not want a quick fix
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