Riding in housing estates

Our parish councillors are the same, they even published an article about the nuisance of horse manure in the local village magazine :D I could understand if it was in someone's driveway or on the footpath but they were complaining about a couple of poos on the main road!

Don't think anyone took any notice tbh most people have a life to get on with :)
 
Flummoxed said:
I too saw your thread on FB and, having lived there some years ago I think that the problem is that you are not just riding on the road but along a short stretch of footpath which joins one cul de sac to another so No you do not have the right to do this. The riding school closed years ago when the housing estates grew and there is now very little offroad riding in that area.
Click to expand...

By the sounds of this, they would be quite within their rights to stop you riding on the tracks/footpaths..

Horsebacks said:
OK an update, we rang the councillor who happened to be lib dem surprisingly (NOT).
He was blissfully unaware of the two accidents where cars have hit horses in the last 12 months in the local area, the most recent one two weeks ago killed the pony. I will copy some of the letter soon but to be honest anyone that can write a letter that says ' there is serious concern about the horse manure' - what?? serious concern?? there isnt even serious concern about many of the major issues in the local area how can there possibly be serious concern about horse manure?

Not only did he want us to stop riding on that particular bit of path he also asked us to stop riding around the entire residential area.

I intend to send his letter to David Cameron and see what his thoughts are on the matter.
Click to expand...

Its not a matter of what the councillor WANTS you to do, its a matter of whether you are allowed by law to do so...

If it does mean that you are riding on narrow tracks or footpaths between cul de sacs then I can understand why they are getting complaints and are sick of the manure really.
 
Make a deal with him, he stops everyone driving past your house killing you with Carbon monoxide and all the other carcinogens coming out of their exhaust pipes, and you will stop riding past his house with the "very" occasional non cancerous biodegradable horse poo popping out.

Seriously, I would have told him to go kcuf himself, litter, fly tipping, vandalism, illegal parking, blah blah blah, he needs to get a grip with the real issue's at hand, obviously suffer's with CADD.
 
Sounds like you need to get together with the local ROW officer and ascertain just what riding there is in the area. I'd also ask the BHS for statistics in your area and make sure that the two recent serious incidents are included. Put together a case for the need of more bridleways in the area - perhaps a route around the outside of the estate. They (in theory) have an obligation to consider the needs of residents and users of the local area when building an estate. In preventing you from using the route, they are forcing you onto busy roads, as you say, both increasing congestion and the chances of another serious accident. Perhaps if you note on the map routes which you have to take or lack of bridleways in the area, he might be able to find a compromise. Legally, though, using footpath cut throughs is a no-no (but we've always done it!!).

If there's anyone on your yard who is a gold member of the BHS, get them to call up for ideas of how to fight this or who their local rep is to help you gain more routes.

I wouldn't ignore it. If you do, they'll only put up a barrier to prevent you from riding through and then you'll have nothing.
 
What punishment are you likely to get for riding on a footpath as long as not damaging it? No crime of trespass only damage.
 
If youre riding where you shouldnt be and on footpaths I think you should stop that, but if you are being asked to stop riding on a public road, well sod that!
 
If the letter is from your local councillor, it may well be that the letter does not have the backing of the council. Official Requests to desist a certain behaviour ( such as riding on footpaths) are more likely to come from the relevant Director within the Council.

Just to make it more complicated, responsibility for highways, including footpaths, rests with either the county council or a metropolitan district, and not a parish council or borough council. what area are you in?

PM me if I can help unravel some of this for you. There may be some questions about the councillors weight in this which are best unearthing before you ring the council!
 
Defo phone his boss and find out if it's an official letter or has he misappropriated headed paper and done this off his own back? In which case, he could likely be sacked. It sounds so dodgy!
 
mon said:
What punishment are you likely to get for riding on a footpath as long as not damaging it? No crime of trespass only damage.
Click to expand...

Seriously!! :confused:

Yeah - ignore all the rules, do what you want! Thats how we all get banned from places in the first place. Get a bit of responsibility!!
 
Not saying do it but lots of more serious crimes only get a smack on wrists, so just wondered also do signs needed to be put up saying no horses, thought we were being asked to be more green, couple on tv the other day using horse and carriage to take children to school with threatened fuel strike.. How often do you see bikers on paths, cars parked on pavements all not allowed but overlooked.
 
Last edited:
cinnamontoast said:
Defo phone his boss and find out if it's an official letter or has he misappropriated headed paper and done this off his own back? In which case, he could likely be sacked. It sounds so dodgy!
Click to expand...

Councillors don't have a boss within the council, they can be got rid of by the voters at the next election but they are unpaid. They should not however act upon their own initiative in this kind of matter but should follow council policy. It is quite possible that a crime has been committed if the letter purported to be on council headed notepaper.
 
It doesn't surprise me, I bet I can name the councillor..they often don't have a grip of the law...or anything else for that matter. In terms of speaking to his boss...councillors are the boss in local authorities, it causes significant problems when they try to flex their muscles like this they very often have little idea of the realities
 
Horsebacks said:
OK an update, we rang the councillor who happened to be lib dem surprisingly (NOT).
He was blissfully unaware of the two accidents where cars have hit horses in the last 12 months in the local area, the most recent one two weeks ago killed the pony. I will copy some of the letter soon but to be honest anyone that can write a letter that says ' there is serious concern about the horse manure' - what?? serious concern?? there isnt even serious concern about many of the major issues in the local area how can there possibly be serious concern about horse manure?

Not only did he want us to stop riding on that particular bit of path he also asked us to stop riding around the entire residential area.

I intend to send his letter to David Cameron and see what his thoughts are on the matter.
Click to expand...

I should write back to the councillor (cc-ing it to the Council Chief Executive and Legal Department) asking whether he is acting on behalf of the Council as a whole in his attempt to give advice on legal matters. If so, I would then point out that he may be personally liable, or alternatively render the Council vicariously liable for his actions should you or anyone else affected by his personal opinions suffer an accident, injury or loss as a result of following his advice. I would also remind him that, in order to give legal advice, he should have the benefit of public indemnity insurance. Finally, I would point out that should he continue to harass you by letter, you will consider taking out an injunction against him.

Especially thank him for providing the Council's stance on this matter, as your correspondence has now made their liability should you suffer any accident as a result of this series of communications reasonably forseeable and more likely to succeed in court. For instance, if you had to ride on a busy road instead of a road through a housing estate which you do have a right to ride through, should you suffer a road traffic accident, there may be a case worth pursuing for civil damages in court.

I would also remind him that he represents his whole ward, and that includes equestrians, and that personal bias or favouring particular residents has no place in his role, as he is not judicially appointed.

I would think part of what you riding through (the small path) may be dubious from a strictly legal viewpoint, but you would probably have to go to court to prove it. The Council cannot make a decision to prosecute you, the Crown Prosecution Service does. More likely he is referring to civil action, but when the Council has the power of bylaws available to it to prevent certain activities taking place, one would question whether this would be a good use of public funds. Certainly any proposal for a bylaw would also require full consultation and use of the democratic process.

Many councillors are considered an absolute liability by the Council employees who have to deal with their various faux pas.
 
Assuming you're not in Scotland...

If it's a public road and you stick to the roads, they can't stop you riding on the roads.
If it's a private road, they may be able to stop you.
If it's the 'ginnells and snickets' (as they say in Yorkshire) that go between the that roads on the housing estate that you're riding on, you most likely don't have the right to ride there.
If there is a historic right of access that predates the estate, you'll probably need to go to court to prove it because the argument will probably be that it should have been raised when the planning hearings for the estate were being heard and the new legal standing of all the new roads and paths were being defined.

FWIW I use the local housing estates a lot for fittening, as a couple of them contain pretty decent hills. But I keep off the ginnells and snickets. I don't have a school so I use the cul de sacs for circles and lateral work.
 
Mithras said:
I should write back to the councillor (cc-ing it to the Council Chief Executive and Legal Department) asking whether he is acting on behalf of the Council as a whole in his attempt to give advice on legal matters. If so, I would then point out that he may be personally liable, or alternatively render the Council vicariously liable for his actions should you or anyone else affected by his personal opinions suffer an accident, injury or loss as a result of following his advice. I would also remind him that, in order to give legal advice, he should have the benefit of public indemnity insurance. Finally, I would point out that should he continue to harass you by letter, you will consider taking out an injunction against him.

Especially thank him for providing the Council's stance on this matter, as your correspondence has now made their liability should you suffer any accident as a result of this series of communications reasonably forseeable and more likely to succeed in court. For instance, if you had to ride on a busy road instead of a road through a housing estate which you do have a right to ride through, should you suffer a road traffic accident, there may be a case worth pursuing for civil damages in court.

I would also remind him that he represents his whole ward, and that includes equestrians, and that personal bias or favouring particular residents has no place in his role, as he is not judicially appointed.

.
Click to expand...

^This

And then let us know how you got on. It might be an idea to get on to the BHS legal team as well. They may help you word your letter for maximum impact.
 
EstherYoung said:
Assuming you're not in Scotland...

FWIW I use the local housing estates a lot for fittening, as a couple of them contain pretty decent hills. But I keep off the ginnells and snickets. I don't have a school so I use the cul de sacs for circles and lateral work.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm really impressed with your creativity! That's fabulous :D
 
OP - did you take Peter Natt's offer of help? He is a BHS Access officer so knows what he's talking about and has twice asked you to contact him. Surely an excellent place to start I would have thought?
 
I'm really finding this quite amusing. The livery yard in question is at grid reference SO911 205 and the location of the footpath that the OP is using is at SO 916 206. I can't imagine why she wants to ride it actually. It leads from one part of a housing estate to another, which is hardly pleasant hacking.

I agree that hacking is poor and there is only one bridleway nearby, which leads from a 40mph road to a national speed limit road. I'm afraid I wouldn't consider keeping my horse there unless I was prepared to travel for hacking. The YO has recently sold one of his largest fields for further development and it can only be a matter of time before more goes as this area is prime housing land.

There never was a right of way over the land in question before the housing went up in 1988 - it was usually under water! The connecting footpath did not exist before the estate was built.

Yes, it's sad that our countryside is being eroded but the riding school that used to operate here closed in the 80s when a lot of this area was designated for housing and the roads started to become busier.

It may be time to look further afield OP.
 
I think OP might have realised they were in fact in the wrong to be riding on pavements and footpaths which might explain why they've gone quiet...The fact of it is, whilst horses may have been on the roads before cars, they are now very much a second/third place road user and we have to accept this! Harping on about 'we were here first' is t going to do anything except aggravate more people - put up and shut up, or move yards if access to out of arena/field riding is so important to you!
 
Horsebacks said:
We are but it is not proper road all the way through, bits of it are just like paths. .
Click to expand...

In which case you most likely have no right to ride on them, as they are pedestrian paths only.

However, you can't be prevented from riding on the road.
 
Last edited:
Could you get off and lead horse? Know that you are not suppose to ride a bike but can push it on footpaths.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top