Riding on footpaths (again, sorry)

Clodagh

Clodagh

Rage, rage, against the dying of the light.
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We have had a complaint at the Parish Council (OH is on it) about someone riding on a footpath that crosses our land. Lady in question is a friend, with our permission, and the track is not part of ELS or any scheme, it is a grass track accessing one of our fields. It just happens to also have a footpath on it.
Now a lively debate ensued with PC members saying you cannot, on any circumstances, ride on a footpath. My OH said he owns the land and if he gives permission to someone they can.
So what do you think? Do we, as landowners, have any say in the matter? It all got a bit farcical as OH had driven up the 'footpath' to the meeting, which in PC's opinion would not be allowed either. Bizarre.
 
I'm interested in the response to this as we used to have a lovely straight mile long footpath we rode on. It was brilliant for cantering on as you could see if anything was coming the other way. We were stopped by the council as apparently footpaths are meant to be flat enough for pushchairs and wheelchairs on go on!!! However, the local hunt, which normally has 30-50 horses on it, is allowed to use this path as they meet at the landowner's farm. A few horses having the odd canter is a lot different to 30-50 horses galloping flat out 6-8 times a year so why do the council allow this?
 
If you own the land and you choose to let someone ride on it then I don't think there is anything the PC can do?

If it's wide enough to drive along though would it not be a RUPP in which case riding and driving along it would be OK?
 
It is not a RUPP, it is a private track not accessed by any roads, only through our farmyard.
The hunt meet her and certainly do loads of damage (we don't mind). This lady only rides on our land when it is dry anyway.
Mitchyden - that is the nub isn't it, did your landowner give you permission but the council said no? Any wheelchair would fall in the ditches or get stuck at the stiles anyway, the odd hoofprint wouldn't make a lot of difference.
 
Surely it being your land has no bearing on the matter. If that piece of land is a designated public footpath, then horses shouldn't be ridden on it.
 
But surely the fact that we own it has priority over a ROW? Or at least equal rights. Apart from anything else it is far wider than the minimum width for a footpath so you could say the lady was riding on the non footpath bit. She doesn't ride on any that are narrow, not that we would mind but they don't work on the hack route.
 
amymay said:
Surely it being your land has no bearing on the matter. If that piece of land is a designated public footpath, then horses shouldn't be ridden on it.
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So what happens if a footpath runs along the same line as your driveway (many tracks have FPs that run along them). Does that mean you cannot drive up your own drive?
Our YO is a farmer and allows us to ride around his fields in summer. Some of the lines we take are also footpaths, as we are riding with the owners permission I don't see a problem.
 
Surely if it is on your land you can do or allow whatever you like on it as long as it is still available as a ROW. What about a footpath that goes through a field? You can have horses loose in that field and people can still walk on it. You could also have a footpath through an empty field that you choose to ride in, and be riding on the footpath. But it is still ok to use as a footpath.

At our yard we have some footpaths going through our land. We are allowed to ride on all of them. If we couldn't use them for the horses we couldn't get some of the horses in from the fields.
 
little_critter said:
So what happens if a footpath runs along the same line as your driveway (many tracks have FPs that run along them). Does that mean you cannot drive up your own drive?
Our YO is a farmer and allows us to ride around his fields in summer. Some of the lines we take are also footpaths, as we are riding with the owners permission I don't see a problem.
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Very good point. We have a footpath that runs down our farm track past the yard which we have to ride up to get on to the road and drive up. If we were not allowed to either ride or drive up this track then how would we get out? Doesn't make any sense to me that just because something is a footpath nothing else can go on it.

What about all the footpaths through fields with livestock in them, do we need to tell the cows and sheep not to walk on that bit of the field?
 
little_critter said:
So what happens if a footpath runs along the same line as your driveway (many tracks have FPs that run along them). Does that mean you cannot drive up your own drive?
.
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We have a footpath up our drive, OH raised that with the PC as well but apparently it is different.
 
Doormouse said:
What about all the footpaths through fields with livestock in them, do we need to tell the cows and sheep not to walk on that bit of the field?
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I'm sure many people would think that quite achievable and to be recommended. (Aaargh).
 
I'm pretty sure the landowner's permission overrides a right of way. We've organised quite a few TREC competitions where we've gone across land which has a footpath but not a bridlepath on it with the owners' permission.

We also ride on a neighbour's farm tracks, which are also footpaths, with his permission. We've never had a problem.

We also have several 'permissive' bridlepaths through a local woodland. The land is owned by the woodland trust who are always threatening us with removing the permission if people abuse them - they will revert to footpaths if that's the case.
 
Just found this:
Driving a motor vehicle on footpath, bridleway or restricted byway: section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988
It is an offence to drive a motor vehicle on a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway without 'lawful' authority. Lawful authority can be interpreted as having the consent of the owner of the land - See more at: http://www.outdoorswest.org.uk/home...formation-for-landowners#sthash.qK1OKbfq.dpuf

So I infer from that that if you have the landowners permission you can ride / cycle / drive over the footpath.
 
amymay said:
Surely it being your land has no bearing on the matter. If that piece of land is a designated public footpath, then horses shouldn't be ridden on it.
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The right of way extended to third parties does not limit what you are able to do on your own land, it just limits/extends rights to other people.

OP - yes you can ride on your footpath, you can do whatever you want on it. Our driveway is a footpath, and if I lived as the above ^^ I wouldn't be able to ride or drive down it...
 
I have been in situations where i have been able to ride on footpaths because the landowner has rights of access as they own land either side so arguably was just going from one part of the farm to another or using it to get access to and from the farm. I also have to access my current yard via a footpath. However in both those cases I was a livery of the person that had right of access and it was to access what was at the end.

What you will definitely have to be careful of is that you have a responsibility to maintain the track so if it gets churned up you will have to put it right.
 
As it is on your land, are we talking about a permissive ROW? If so, I'm pretty sure it's entirely your call. You could close it and only permit your friend on it.

Just FYI, it's not criminal to use a footpath for riding... The person who could potentially take civil action is the landowner. So in this instance it's a bit of a moot point!
 
Our yard has a footpath which runs through 2 fields. We have no option but to walk along it for part of the way and across it with the horses to get them in and out. Bizarre!
 
little_critter said:
Just found this:
Driving a motor vehicle on footpath, bridleway or restricted byway: section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988
It is an offence to drive a motor vehicle on a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway without 'lawful' authority. Lawful authority can be interpreted as having the consent of the owner of the land - See more at: http://www.outdoorswest.org.uk/home...formation-for-landowners#sthash.qK1OKbfq.dpuf

So I infer from that that if you have the landowners permission you can ride / cycle / drive over the footpath.
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That is great, thank you, actual hard evidence.
 
Barnacle said:
As it is on your land, are we talking about a permissive ROW? If so, I'm pretty sure it's entirely your call. You could close it and only permit your friend on it.

Just FYI, it's not criminal to use a footpath for riding... The person who could potentially take civil action is the landowner. So in this instance it's a bit of a moot point!
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No it isn't a permissive ROW, just a footpath on a field edge that is also a track.
 
If it's not permissive, the situation is less clear. You could be liable, for instance, if someone were injured by the horse (the link posted above has info on that as well). Though everything else I said before still stands and it does seem as though you can permit whatever you want provided it can still function as a footpath.
 
I think I'm right in thinking you own the land but never the footpath that's owned by the council. If there was no footpath there it would be fine as that's your land but I'm afraid the footpath is not a bridle way so you have nothing to go on here: you could apply to the council to have it changed to a bridle way
 
If a footpath runs through a field which has horses in it those horses are allowed on the footpath........ The council cant make you remove them unless theyr attacking people, cant see a council has any rights over who you choose to go on your own land. Especially as the maintenance has to be done by the landowner.
 
The land owner or licenced user can ride or drive a vehicle on any part of a ROW that they could drive or ride on if it were not a right of way.http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/34 ( 2a at the bottom allows this)
It is an offence to use a footpath for horses or bikes unless other permission exists so a landowner can allow the hunt to ride. Few rural footpaths are owned by the council - they usually belong to someone else.
 
amymay said:
Surely it being your land has no bearing on the matter. If that piece of land is a designated public footpath, then horses shouldn't be ridden on it.
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This. But.. A public footpath only has to be a metre wide, I believe. If you want to allow horses, widen it. Your land, your path🏇🏼
 
Podgelover said:
I think I'm right in thinking you own the land but never the footpath that's owned by the council. If there was no footpath there it would be fine as that's your land but I'm afraid the footpath is not a bridle way so you have nothing to go on here: you could apply to the council to have it changed to a bridle way
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No that isn't correct, councils do not own footpaths. They are responsible for their surface (as they are with roads, pavements etc etc) however they have no legal ownership over a footpath or the land it sits on.

The only possible redress for horses trespassing on footpaths is a tort anyway and if the OP is the landowner she is hardly about to pursue a civil wrong against her friend.
 
RunToEarth said:
No that isn't correct, councils do not own footpaths. They are responsible for their surface (as they are with roads, pavements etc etc) however they have no legal ownership over a footpath or the land it sits on.

The only possible redress for horses trespassing on footpaths is a tort anyway and if the OP is the landowner she is hardly about to pursue a civil wrong against her friend.
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What she said. The council do not own the footpath, or even the topsoil or anything. We are happy to allow people to walk on it but refuse to treat it as hallowed ground.
 
Just re-read the opening post and realised you said the complaint was made at the Parish Council. If my experience with Parish Councils is anything to go by, it's full of village busy bodies that have nothing better to do with their life except complain!!
 
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