Riding peoples horses....Favor or a service?

[MrMuleMe]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd get some second opinion here.

Here's a tricky one for me, I've had lots of offers to ride peoples horses but at what point are they doing you a favor (giving you something to have fun and ride when you don't have your own) or are you doing THEM a favor by working and getting their horses fit and experienced.

If you're doing them the favor (which I'm guessing I am) where does money play in to this. I'm not talking £30 per session. Just perhaps a token amount to cover my fuel. Let's face it, some of the people who want me to ride their horses aren't exactly skint...

Yet, I'd feel very awkward asking for money. I'm thinking I'm possibly even too humble. I've never taken a dime for riding peoples horses and looking after them as well (the ones I really like!)

Although I was offered money to do someones horse, it was a bit further out than I was looking for. 15 + miles. See, also my conundrum is I'm not what you'd typically define as a typical horse professional. Yes, I've ridden a good few different horses, young, old and lots in between over the past 15 years. However, I''ve never taken a BHS exam. And I've never worked on a performance yard, etc etc or even competed. I'm certainly not a BHSAI as you might have gathered reading up to this point.

I just enjoy having a good time with horses every now and again (Though the last two were very green, getting a bit tired of being dropped into the deep end)

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Equi]

It depends entirely on what you, or they want. If you want to ride and progress a horse, for your own satisfaction, then i don't think they should pay. If there is a horse who is already aweomse and you fancy doing shows or the like, then you should pay them for the experience. If they ask you to ride their horse to bring them on, then you should be paid.

You don't have to be a "professional" to get paid to ride. Sometimes people want a normal bog standard horse ridden but can't get anyone whos not a joy rider so are willing to pay someone to turn up on a day or time specified.

 

[paddi22]

if you are riding someones horse to fix a particular issue it has, or to improve it in some specified way agreed between you and the owners then i think it would be fine to charge. If the owners can't get up to ride and want the horse exercised then it's reasonable to charge as well. If you are just looking for general rides though then they are doing you a favour really.

 

[be positive]

Being "qualified" is not relevant, being capable to ride and improve a horse is a skill that people will be happy to pay for but if you get paid then the riding is being done on a professional basis and your insurance, and theirs, will need to be in place to cover the new terms, it will probably not be worthwhile unless you do more than just the odd one, the owners expectations may increase once they are employing you rather than you doing it for fun.
I think it comes down to whether you are just doing it for fun or whether you want to make progress and the same for the owners are they expecting you to get their horses fit, school them or is it just an bit extra on top of what they are doing.

 

[Kat]

I normally just worked on it being mutual benefit so no money changes hands.

 

[Shay]

If you take money and provide a service you need to be insured. Even if it is just fuel money. If you don't already you should also account for those earning - albeit offset against expenses - in a self assessment tax form. Very bureaucratic I know - but if the tax man catches you (or a disgruntled owner shops you!) the fines can be punitive.

 

[merlin12]

You need to clarify this before you start. Sometimes people come and hack one of mine out with me. Now if they wanted to go on a hack from a riding centre it would cost them £25.00 to £50.00 . So they could at least offer to muck out and clean tack. If you are being asked to school or train a horse ,you should be paid. But if you are just keen to ride because you don't have your own it is a different matter. A gray area.

 

[majors]

I have a lovely young girl 17 who rides my young horse who is as good as gold and I pay her £10 usually an hour, the horse is tacked up and ready when she gets there. She charges more for green / problem horses

 

[Dry Rot]

Supply and demand. And that will depend a lot on location and your ability/qualifications -- and the horse you are asked to ride.

I am a very small breeder. I enjoy bringing on youngsters and can do a lot from the ground. But I don't ride (too bloody old!).

Mostly I get in young people who enjoy being around horses and come for nothing. But that is not a one way street either as I have a lot of experience of training other species and most (even the experienced ones!) say they have learnt something and have enjoyed it. If nothing else, my approach is unconventional! It is also very laid back, informal, and flexible. Heck! They even get to experience my cooking!

Yes, sometimes if a rider is adding value (i.e. helping to train) I will pay expenses 'out of the back pocket' but it is hardly a wage. But then this is the Scottish Highlands and anyone who is that keen on horses will have their own.

I think the short answer is, if you are enjoying it and want to continue, don't expect to be paid. But if it is a chore, money might be the incentive that encourages you to continue. So, yes, I'd help with (reasonable) expenses but there is no profit in breeding Highland ponies so given the choice, I will take on someone who is adequate but doesn't want paid over an expert who wants a wage.

OP, them as don't ask, don't get. No one is going to condemn you for asking to be paid, at least expenses. But don't be surprised if you get a 'No!'. Personally, I couldn't be bothered with the paperwork but I do pay for insurance (Employers Liability which I am bound to have even for volunteers).

 

[ihatework]

In your situation I suppose what it boils down to is how much you want to ride the horse 'just because'. It doesn't sound like this is work for you, more hobby - unless I have misinterpreted.
I'd be similar, especially in this last year when I haven't had anything of my own to ride. To be honest id generally charge if I was improving/schooling someone's horse that I wasn't fussed if I rode or not. As it is I have just been exercising a good friends event horses. I do it for free, it's generally mutually beneficial and at times that suit me. Works well for us both.
Along the same line if I ever need my horses schooled then I pay the going rate for a professional to do it - I wouldn't be keen to pay a non pro to have a play around on my horses!

 

[Theocat]

It also depends how it has come about - if you're talking about a lack of your own horse and they offer you theirs, they'll see it as a favour to you - or mutually beneficial. If they are talking about lack of time to ride or needing help with schooling, it's much clearer that you'd be helping them and a charge would be sensible.

 

[Sukistokes2]

It also depends how it has come about - if you're talking about a lack of your own horse and they offer you theirs, they'll see it as a favour to you - or mutually beneficial. If they are talking about lack of time to ride or needing help with schooling, it's much clearer that you'd be helping them and a charge would be sensible.

^^^^^
In a nutshell

I have a lady I pay to ride, it's her job, I pay her and she does what I need her to do on my pony I'm to fat to ride.

I also have a lady who has retired her horse and still wants to ride and she comes and rides ( eventually will ride pony when he is fit again) I don't pay her. She wants to help with chores, I'm so grateful I have found a adult small enough (apart from the professional) who can eventually ride the little git , she doesn't have to do chores in my mind!

 

[Dunlin]

Having been in this situation I clearly outlined that I am not a horse mad 13 year old anymore who will do anything for a sit. I applied for a job and I expect to get paid for it. A lot of horsey employers do take the absolute biscuit. I have experienced everything from unpaid riding to working a whole Saturday or Sunday for free at a show because that was considered a perk. If I get to hop on and enjoy a class then I might consider it a perk but lumbering around a showground doing my usual duties is not a perk, it's work.

So in a nutshell, if you have applied for a job then you get paid for it, if you skip out a few for a hack in return then it needs to be clearly outlined.

 

[Goldenstar]

It really depends .
If you want to set yourself up as a professional do so .
If you need some money towards the costs you incur ask for some if the owner regards that as that something they go not want to enter in to some else will ride the horse .
I have a friend who rides one of mine. , he gets a nice horse who suits him well to ride , hunt , field master off and yes he has developed the horse a lot but if he asked me for money ( he never would )I would show him the door .

 

[AdorableAlice]

What a good question. My thoughts are:-

It is a service if you are improving the horse as in schooling and fittening it. You should be paid for your services.

If you are offered the ride on a competition horse it should be viewed as an honour and an indicator that you ride well enough to get on a good horse, although your travelling costs to the show should be paid for.

 

[Damnation]

Utterly depends on you.

I have a young girl riding my mare. She isn't doing me a favour as neither me or the horse care if she is ridden or not. My mare has been competed, schooled, jumped (although a bit rusty at this stage!) and has gotten all the t-shirts.

The girl is doing it because a) she can't afford a horse of her own b) she just desperately wants to learn. I wasn't actually looking for a rider either, this wee lass was just in the right place at the right time and she asked and I am enjoying watching their ridden relationship grow.

If I were to advertise for someone to exercise my mare I would expect to pay.

 

[Crackerz]

It depends.

I have a girl ride one of mine to help keep his fitness and schooling up whilst i do more with my other one. She doesn't pay me and i don't pay her. She is a fabulous rider and doing the pony the world of good. She doesn't have her own anymore and currently cannot afford one at least time-wise. So we're doing each other favours - she gets to ride a quality pony and i get more time with my other one. Perfect

 

[MrMuleMe]

Wow - some really good suggestions here. Basically, answered a lot of what I was wondering. Moving on from a general question, I suppose variables play the most important role here. So I'll put some specifics on my situation.

I put a posting up on an internet group (don't want to be too specific here!) and got a bunch of responses which was quite amazing. Anyway, I responded to someone based on locality. Few basic details exchanged, I turn up. Horse turns out to be very, very green. I nearly get bucked off on the road by it - fortunately I know how to sit out bucking broco's so got my bearings together. Stuck with it and yes with some guidance I got the horse settled down but was still pretty jittery myself after that.

So despite all that and having back and that's still very sore as is my confidence somewhat. I can't help but think should I be asking money to go through all that? Money hasn't been mentioned, and I've no idea how I would frame that question....

 

[ihatework]

Wow - some really good suggestions here. Basically, answered a lot of what I was wondering. Moving on from a general question, I suppose variables play the most important role here. So I'll put some specifics on my situation.

I put a posting up on an internet group (don't want to be too specific here!) and got a bunch of responses which was quite amazing. Anyway, I responded to someone based on locality. Few basic details exchanged, I turn up. Horse turns out to be very, very green. I nearly get bucked off on the road by it - fortunately I know how to sit out bucking broco's so got my bearings together. Stuck with it and yes with some guidance I got the horse settled down but was still pretty jittery myself after that.

So despite all that and having back and that's still very sore as is my confidence somewhat. I can't help but think should I be asking money to go through all that? Money hasn't been mentioned, and I've no idea how I would frame that question....

Personally I wouldn't be riding a young sharp horse either for free or pocket money, I have no desire to be injured on someone else's horse.

You can ask for money, they can say no. You can then choose if you still wish to ride it or would rather find something else.

I personally wouldn't be paying someone who was jittery/confidence issues to be riding my young horse. If I was paying someone to ride my horse I would 100% want someone I was confident wasn't going to give the horse a scare, even if unintentionally

 

[Booboos]

If you advertised looking to share a horse and the agreement with the owner was that no money would change hands I think it is cheeky to ask for money now. If the horse is too green or too scary for you just say it is not suitable and walk away.

If you want to start charging for rides in general you need to be insured and then advertise and see what happens. If there is a need for the service you want to provide and you are good enough it will work out.

 

[Mince Pie]

I personally wouldn't be paying someone who was jittery/confidence issues to be riding my young horse. If I was paying someone to ride my horse I would 100% want someone I was confident wasn't going to give the horse a scare, even if unintentionally

To be honest if I got on a horse and promptly got binned without being warned I'd be jittery as well for the rest of the ride as I wouldn't know what else to expect. The next ride I would be 'aware' rather than jittery until I had a bit more of a feel for the horse.

OP if this owner is expecting you to school this horse then yes they should pay as they are getting a 'service'.

 

[Goldenstar]

If you advertised looking to share a horse and the agreement with the owner was that no money would change hands I think it is cheeky to ask for money now. If the horse is too green or too scary for you just say it is not suitable and walk away.

If you want to start charging for rides in general you need to be insured and then advertise and see what happens. If there is a need for the service you want to provide and you are good enough it will work out.

Good way of looking at it .

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

It is a minefield.

I haven't had my own now for nearly 3 years. In that time I have schooled A LOT of horses for different people.

I was sharing a competition horse (paying £300 a month for the privilege as it was on full livery at a nice dressage yard) and during that time I had a few people ask me to school their young/ green horses. I did it for a while unpaid, but eventually I was knackered with riding and competing my share horse 3-4 days a week, working full time and trying to school 3 horses for other people. One of them offered me money, I kept refusing and then a few weeks later relented and said, yes, actually money would be good. I then messaged the other 2 and said if it was going to continue, I would need to be paid. They all agreed straight away. All 3 horses were brought on and at the time I was competing a lot BD at Elementary, so although I was hardly a Grand Prix world beater rider, I was competing practically weekly getting mostly decent results so I think the owners didn't mind paying as much as they would have had I not really 'proven' myself competition wise.

That all eventually fizzled out with horses being sold/ loaned etc.

I then stopped sharing my share horse and got offered rides on 2 competition horses at the dressage yard, one a PSG school master (who taught me LOADS) and the other a Medium school master. Both needed to be schooled due to owner's lack of time and the Medium school master I had a summer competing on which was invaluable. I was not paid for this and wouldn't have expected to be as they were fab opportunities and genuine school masters that I could learn from.

I then finished with both of them and schooled 2 horses for a lady for the past 5 months. They were both very green and I wasn’t paid. I did this for nearly 5 months but did stop about a month or so ago purely because my love for it had gone. I can happily say both their way of going improved immensely within the 4 months I was schooling them and the owner was very happy, therefore I was happy and it made it all worth it but I just got sick of putting 4 days of work a week into schooling someone else’s horses, for no real purpose or gain to myself. I’m not a pony mad child anymore that desperately wants a ride on a horse. I’ve owned horses, loaned horses and competed a lot in my lifetime, I don’t need to just ‘have a sit’ for the sake of sitting anymore.

I vowed to give up riding until the spring when I hope to get my own again, or unless someone pays me. I no longer will school people’s young/ green (or hell, even old and green!!) horses for nothing. I just don’t have the will/need or the motivation anymore. The only exception I’d make was if I was offered another school master.

So, in a long winded answer to your OP. If you don’t think you’d resent the time spent bringing someone else’s horse on for free and would just be grateful for the chance to ride, then don’t charge. If you think it will start to grate and you can genuinely prove that you ARE providing a service in either improving the horse’s way of going or keeping it fit if the owner cannot, then ask to be paid. Be prepared for a no, but at least you’ve asked the Q.

 

[LouisCat]

I ride for a couple of different people and think it's a fine line...
I can't afford a horse so it is really nice that people trust me to ride there's. I do jump them and school them and don't expect payment as it is my choice and they let me do pretty much whatever I want with the horses and I would certainly never expect fuel money as it is my choice to ride their horses.
However, it is still my time I am using so I do get a bit annoyed when one of them asks you to ride out with them at 17:30 and then they change their mind to 18:15 and then change it again etc. This is not a problem for them living on site but it is a pain when you're 10 miles away!

Also, I won't ride really naughty/green horses, the added risk isn't worth it to me.
One of them I ride is incredibly spooky however you can feel it all over him when he's about to do it and it's only a shoot forwards/sideway not bronking or rearing

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I would pay and I'd expect you to be insured and set up and I'd want some sort of idea of what kind of rider you were (FB page with photos etc). I wouldnt care about qualifications.

And yes, you need to be a bit careful about what you get on-if in doubt, people will put the freelancer on it which could mean loss of earnings/lack of riding if you get injured. Some will expect you to want to ride anything so just choose your questions carefully before mounting up.

 

[Illusion100]

Maybe I'm just unlucky but 95% of the time someone gives me an offer that I can ride their horse I can guarantee there's something about it that needs 'fixing', no matter how casually they bring the subject up. Some are are a bit more upfront and say they are having a bit of trouble but it's always underplayed. So all in all when someone comes to me with this type of thing there is no doubt it's for their benefit, not mine and so I answer 'Not a problem, it's £30 initially, then we'll go from there'.

Sometimes people come back and say they'll do my mucking out etc as payment but that's not a fair deal for me getting on something with issues. So along with all the other advice you've been given, mine would be make sure you are insured, invest in an Air Jacket and if your gut tells you not to get on one, just walk away no matter what they offer to pay.