Riding school / hacking insurance advice / help please

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PennyBlack5

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Hi All,
I am a BHSAI and I work at a small little riding school that also offers hacking locally. Our insurance states that all new riders must carry out a short riding assessment in the school prior to being allowed out on hacks (to ensure they are safe & capable)
Riding schools as you can imagine are under constant pressure to make money & ours is no different. My boss isn't particularly horsey (a part time hobby once a week rather than career) and feels it's ok to allow people to ride in shorts & trainers. I've turned people away saying it's unsafe & had a ticking off after for it. She's now bought safety stirrups & said that as I have safety stirrups I must now allow people to ride in trainers. I don't like the idea & feel really stuck as if anyone has an accident it's my name & my qualification that will get destroyed plus I'm not even sure my employer would stand by me if anything were to happen (She finds me challenging as I don't agree to everything she wants)
They allow people who have never ridden to go out on a busy main road and it fills me with dread. I hate it but it's my job I'm a single mum with 2 children & need my job. I'm in such a dilemma. Please help. Any advice?
I'm not even sure the insurance would cover an accident if the customer was inappropriately dressed and unsafe to ride. I personally feel it's an accident waiting to happen but I could get sacked if I keep refusing to take them out :(
Sorry to ramble !
 
Get owner to buy some suitable cheap footwear in a variety of sizes and some cheap over trousers. That's what the trekking places I've been to did.

For the assessment 5 mins in school. Was enough for a few. Failed to get canter as not a v forward pony but tried effectively enough to get away with it.

I'm sure I went trekking on the roads as a young child on a leadrein. If the ponies are on a lead and safe that's fine. If not then there's more of an issue...
 
Are people told when they book that they must comply with the rules and what they are?
I'm guessing you don't have a written down policy for what is expected to be achieved in the assessment? You need this in place and people to be told when they book. If they don't meet the criteria then you 'should' be able to refuse to take them and keep their money - possibly offering another activity for the same duration (riding in the school or horse care)? If there is nothing in place write your own and get the owner to sign it so it is their c**k on the block not yours and if they don't like it they can amend it to suit their beliefs and it's still their reputation, you are following your employers instructions.
I used to volunteer at an RDA and we allowed riders to use any footwear (some needed special shoes or had behavioural/emotional issues that meant they would find using other shoes a big issue) but they had to ride in stirrups with Dapps on them, is this what you mean by safety stirrups or do you mean the elastic band type?
 
I think its not unusual for non-riders to go on hacks or treks dressed as you describe -or to be provided with hi-viz. I think what would bother me as an employee, would be if the horses weren't well trained and bombproof or if the roads used weren't suitable.
If the clients are going on fast hacks, it'd be more of an issue, but generally, the people who can ride aren't daft enough to want to ride in shorts.
You have to make the judgement whether you feel you're happy with safety at the RS, otherwise, you'd probably be better off working somewhere with higher standards.
 
You can get safety cages for stirrups, otherwise they are not really safe.
Going on a main road is dangerous.
With people like your employer, just tell them that it means they will not be covered by insurance if there is an accident.
Keep a private diary and note your concerns, this will keep you safe.
 
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There's probably a difference between a safety issue (helmets, boots, hi viz) and clothes which are advisable (long trousers, gloves). Presumably the riding school has helmets and hi viz for those who don't have their own, so as somebody has already said, provide boots too. Add the clothing requirements to the safety statements on your website and make it clear in a prominent place that all clients are required to adhere to them or will be refused a ride. Then also put the recommended clothing on the website, and if they turn up in shorts that's their problem.

Doesn't sound a great place to work though, I'd be either sitting the owner down and getting them to support me on safety and welfare issues (for their own sake as much as mine), or looking for a new job.
 
It depends sometimes they go for a lane hack which is around 30 mins. Others have to cross a busy a road for a longer hack. By safety stirrups I mean with the peacock straps. We supply hats & hi viz but she won't buy boots. I've been asking her to buy more little hats as the children drop them occasionally and she refused saying it's a service we don't have to offer.
I hate the thought of a horse spooking or someone falling off at speed with only shorts & trainers on & then what ? If the insurance doesn't cover is because we are negligent am I then personally liable ?
Time to look for another job I think!
 
PennyBlack5 said:
Hi All,
I am a BHSAI and I work at a small little riding school that also offers hacking locally. Our insurance states that all new riders must carry out a short riding assessment in the school prior to being allowed out on hacks (to ensure they are safe & capable)
Riding schools as you can imagine are under constant pressure to make money & ours is no different. My boss isn't particularly horsey (a part time hobby once a week rather than career) and feels it's ok to allow people to ride in shorts & trainers. I've turned people away saying it's unsafe & had a ticking off after for it. She's now bought safety stirrups & said that as I have safety stirrups I must now allow people to ride in trainers. I don't like the idea & feel really stuck as if anyone has an accident it's my name & my qualification that will get destroyed plus I'm not even sure my employer would stand by me if anything were to happen (She finds me challenging as I don't agree to everything she wants)
They allow people who have never ridden to go out on a busy main road and it fills me with dread. I hate it but it's my job I'm a single mum with 2 children & need my job. I'm in such a dilemma. Please help. Any advice?
I'm not even sure the insurance would cover an accident if the customer was inappropriately dressed and unsafe to ride. I personally feel it's an accident waiting to happen but I could get sacked if I keep refusing to take them out :(
Sorry to ramble !
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Hi there
I specialise in Equine Insurance for Riding Schools, and I can honestly say that this does sound like an accident waiting to happen. The forms that insurers ask new riders to complete are very necessary and should be done without question. Each new client should also be assessed and never allowed out on a hack without you being totally confident that they can control the horse.
What your employer is doing is dangerous and the sad thing is that if an accident does happen she will be found liable and the Insurance has to pay out.
The one saving grace for you is that if an accident does occur, and it is found that the riding school is responsible, the claim will be met by their insurance, it will not affect you personally.
I feel very sorry for the situation you are as you do not want to lose your job, but your employer seems to have little regard for the safety of clients, horses and you.
Why not try gently to point out to the owner that if she continues to allow these things to happen and she does have claims for accidents, her insurance will go up and up and eventually she will become uninsurable and she will then not be able to trade at all.
.
 
Hi there
I specialise in Equine Insurance for Riding Schools, and I can honestly say that this does sound like an accident waiting to happen. The forms that insurers ask new riders to complete are very necessary and should be done without question. Each new client should also be assessed and never allowed out on a hack without you being totally confident that they can control the horse.
What your employer is doing is dangerous and the sad thing is that if an accident does happen she will be found liable and the Insurance has to pay out.
The one saving grace for you is that if an accident does occur, and it is found that the riding school is responsible, the claim will be met by their insurance, it will not affect you personally.
I feel very sorry for the situation you are as you do not want to lose your job, but your employer seems to have little regard for the safety of clients, horses and you.
Why not try gently to point out to the owner that if she continues to allow these things to happen and she does have claims for accidents, her insurance will go up and up and eventually she will become uninsurable and she will then not be able to trade at all.
.
 
PennyBlack5 as an ex riding school owner it never ceases to amaze me what people turn up wearing!

We kept a stock of smooth soled gumboots with a small heel, no-one was ever allowed to ride in sneakers.

The only safe stirrups are the cage type or toe stoppers, the tongue of sneakers can hook up stirrups when riders have pushed their feet home in the stirrups and usually had toes pointing down.

Question for Angie66, if owner of school allows riders out in unsafe clothing/footwear would this not make her insurance null and void? Just as not having an MOT will do if you have an accident, this is the case here in NZ.

When I first worked at the school which I later leased riders were wearing cycle helmets and riding in sneakers, when I pointed out to my employer that should an accident happen he would be liable as he had failed to ensure the riders were wearing suitable safe footwear and headwear, his attitude changed immediately and that was when rules were made and complied with.
 
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Thanks for the clarification Angie 66 it's nice to know I won't be personally liable. I have asked for a meeting with her on Saturday as she wants to push the business more which is why she tells me off for turning people away & says I should relax the rules & let people ride because we can't afford to turn customers away. I understand her wanting to push the business but it will cost her more in the long run if there is a serious accident. Is there ever a time when the insurance wouldn't pay out or cover an accident ?
Think I may put my point across in the meeting then reiterate it by email so I have it in writing !
Just seems unfair on the customers who trust us as professionals to keep them safe as they don't know enough about it to make the right decisions.

I agree they do turn up looking like they are about to step on to the beach ! 😳

There must be a point where it comes down to the proprietor rather than the insurance company to take responsibility / liability ?
 
PennyBlack5 said:
Thanks for the clarification Angie 66 it's nice to know I won't be personally liable. I have asked for a meeting with her on Saturday as she wants to push the business more which is why she tells me off for turning people away & says I should relax the rules & let people ride because we can't afford to turn customers away. I understand her wanting to push the business but it will cost her more in the long run if there is a serious accident. Is there ever a time when the insurance wouldn't pay out or cover an accident ?
Think I may put my point across in the meeting then reiterate it by email so I have it in writing !
Just seems unfair on the customers who trust us as professionals to keep them safe as they don't know enough about it to make the right decisions.

I agree they do turn up looking like they are about to step on to the beach ! ��

There must be a point where it comes down to the proprietor rather than the insurance company to take responsibility / liability ?
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This may backfire on her if she gets a reputation for a lack of safety standards and allowing people to ride in unsafe circumstances. If I went there for a lesson and saw that happening I certainly wouldn't be back!
 
Cowpony said:
This may backfire on her if she gets a reputation for a lack of safety standards and allowing people to ride in unsafe circumstances. If I went there for a lesson and saw that happening I certainly wouldn't be back!
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Hi

In answer to your question, with regards to insurers turning down a claim due to the yards poor health and safety. When you take the insurance, it states that you must do health and safety assessments for all activities and employees etc. So these should be done for yard duties, clients riding, working with horses, and these all have to be documented. If you do not do what they ask they could turn round and decline due to the fact that you have not complied with these requirements.

The more worrying thing is if there is an accident and the H&S come and do a report then your employer could be fined if the health and safety is poor. These are the 2 aspects that she needs to be worrying about.

But Insurance claims under the Public Liability or Employers Liability are all made where the owner is liable, as if they were not the claims would not get paid out. So if it is an incident where it could not be the owners fault, then the claims are thrown out. We have to remember here that it is the third party or the employee who make the claims, and it is then up to insurers to decide if there was any negligence on the owners part, and it does seem here that in many cases she would be negligent.
I hope I am making sense as this is a mine field
 
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