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Rebeccak

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Everyone seems to have a different definition of what a Beginner, Novice, Intermediate and Advanced rider is.

What would you say each rider's capability would be? I'm hoping I can figure out some form of general consensus
 
I don't think you'll get one. Not least becuase it is partly situation dependant. An "advanced" ride at an RS is going to be very differnt from an advance compeition rider, or an advanced amateur (although I doubt you would get many of those.)

You can standardize it to an extent with reference to BHS or PC stages.
 
Rebeccak said:
Everyone seems to have a different definition of what a Beginner, Novice, Intermediate and Advanced rider is.

What would you say each rider's capability would be? I'm hoping I can figure out some form of general consensus
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So obviously there's going to be a vast difference between comp level and RS level. But what would your personal definition be for a rider that just owns their own horse who doesn't compete nor attend typical RS lessons (very odd question to ask I know, I'm not very good at explaining what I'm looking for)
 
I was looking for something similar recently just out of interest and found the syllabuses for the PC helpful? Example of the Pony Club C below.

"RIDING 1. Turn-out of pony and rider. 2. Check bridle, saddle, girth and stirrups before mounting. 3. Mount and dismount safely and correctly on either side. 4. Hold the reins correctly and at a suitable length for the work being done. 5. Ride with stirrups of a suitable length. 6. Ride in a secure and balanced seat independent of the reins. 7. Alter stirrups when mounted and check they hang correctly. 8. Tighten and loosen girth when mounted. 9. Use of seat, legs and hands as aids to increase and decrease pace. 10. Ride in balance without stirrups in walk and trot. 11. Sitting trot, rising trot on the correct diagonal and change of diagonal. 12. Understand the meaning of and start to establish the pony’s rhythm. 13. Walk on a long rein. 14. Canter on both reins. 15. Riding school drill. 16. Ride up and down hill in walk and trot. 17. Independent work in the open. 18. Show trot and canter in a balanced light seat with stirrups at a suitable length. 19. Ride in a correct, balanced position in walk and trot over poles on the ground as a preliminary to jumping. 20. Ride in a correct, balanced position over small fences. 21. Show a smooth progression from one fence to the next. 22. Riding in the countryside, across farm land and bridle paths. 23. Open and close gates. "
 
Rebeccak said:
So obviously there's going to be a vast difference between comp level and RS level. But what would your personal definition be for a rider that just owns their own horse who doesn't compete nor attend typical RS lessons (very odd question to ask I know, I'm not very good at explaining what I'm looking for)
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I have my own, I do compete but haven't actually ridden in the ring for nearly 3 years as I have had the shetlands out inhand. I haven't had a riding lesson since 1997, I don't go to riding club or the likes. I rarely jump - never really been taught to. I break and school my own, I reschool my racehorses and have never done a dressage test in my life. I figured I am doing fine as when I do go out under saddle in the show ring 9/10 I am in the top 3.

I work ride racehorses for a living.

You can define riding skills way back when you start out but beyond that? I would say I am a fairly experienced rider but ask me to jump a course of jumps and I would be back in the nursery novice section!
 
Rebeccak said:
So obviously there's going to be a vast difference between comp level and RS level. But what would your personal definition be for a rider that just owns their own horse who doesn't compete nor attend typical RS lessons (very odd question to ask I know, I'm not very good at explaining what I'm looking for)
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I think you might struggle there. I used to take rides out for a living and people's view of "experienced" is wide ranging!

Back then we had something along the lines of this in the office;

Beginner - been on a horse a few times or not at all (picture of bloke slobbing along on a horse)
Novice - can do walk, rising trot and steer (more tidy picture)
Intermediate - walk, trot, canter (cantering rider picture)
Experienced - will ride anything here (rodeo picture!!)

I'd probably add small jump into 'intermediate' for what you're looking for.

I noticed when I started having lessons again last year the school had more descriptive tick boxes - such as can you do sitting trot, ride without stirrups, certain heights of jumps etc. It was a pretty basic skill set (no asking about lateral work for instance) but they said if people couldn't tick those boxes then really they were at a novice level which led them to the correct choice of horse.
 
We really struggle with people who have been to riding schools, and so they can 'ride', but can't catch, tack up or hack out independently at all.

The horse always knows. For me, an advanced rider is one who can hop on the yard's worst, nappy, slothful idiot horse, and it goes like a schoolmaster for them.
 
I find some people look down on those who are 'happy hackers' or who don't compete, and some look down on those who compete but are afraid to hack out. I think it varies so much and it also depends on the kinds of horses people are riding. Some ride cobs like a pro but the moment they get on a lightweight show jumper, they panic. Some ride the best show jumpers like a pro and panic when they ride a big strong headed cob. I think it is for sure a mix of skill and confidence, and because of the range of horses, skills, events, types of riding, there will never be a clear baseline.

For me personally, I can sit most horses and I have very little fear of the 'naughty' horses. I help back young horses and I go cross country jumping regularly. However, I still require A LOT of help with the schooling of young horses, I just struggle with the finer points of schooling when the horse has very little idea of what I am asking, and therefore I still have lessons and training every week both on my own horses and others. I wouldn't class myself as an advanced rider for this reason but I am definitely experienced having been riding since I was 4.
 
I compete BD Ele (training med) on my own self produced horse, yet I still consider myself to be novice verging on intermediate. I've got a strong self preservation mechanism and nerves can get the better of me so this affects the riding. And my body doesn't seem to do what I need it to. Still get the aids a bit muddled for half pass. I know more in theory than in practice. Tho I guess a RS my consider me to be more advanced (Ive been riding and had horses for 40 years) but I feel there is way more that I don't know than do know
 
I grew up in a dealers yard, I can ride rough, green, nappy or just plain nasty and get them going better than when I got on.

I really doubt that if you sat me on a decent dressage horse, I’d be able to get much of a tune out of it. My aids would be too strong, I’d probably ruin its rhythm. I don’t know any of the more advanced stuff, I can’t ride tempis or pirouettes, fences beyond 1.10 terrify me, I’ve ridden cross country once and never hunted. My position is probably charitably described as ‘workmanlike’ rather than classic.

I couldn’t produce a horse to medium dressage or foxhunter jumping, but I can happily teach ‘this is how we canter under saddle’ until the cows come home.

I really have no idea what I’d call myself - I’m not advanced in any sort of discipline, I’ve never competed to a high level in anything aside from jumping and that topped out at 1.05 but I can ride all the rough ones and love schooling babies.

In short, I think it’s a minefield and we all have different ideas!
 
Beginner, can walk trot and canter, with and without stirrups, and pop a jump, go for a ride, on a kind horse, under instruction.

Novice, can walk trot and canter with and without stirrups, pop a jump, go for a ride, go up and down banks/ditches, on a variety of horses, without being supervised.

Intermediate, the above, but with the added ability to ride the horse in balance, helping to school the horse, improving the horse. The horse would still be a reasonable sane character, but would have character, so could be silly on occasion. Be an all round rider, so although they may specialise in a type of riding, they would be robust enough to go round fences, road ride, do lateral work, clip, first aid, etc etc. So. pretty self sufficient with a known horse.

Advanced, as intermediate plus would be able to start a horse from scratch, deal with silly behaviour, but also more ingrained behaviours. Be the person who other people come to when they are stuck. Re-train as well as initially train and ride made horses.
 
I think part of the difficulty of this is separating different disciplines too. Thinking of the Olympia girls Vs boys or jockeys Vs eventers. Highly advanced riders at their own sport but not necessarily at another discipline.

I doubt Carl Hester would get round Badminton but he's still advanced.

I liked the description that referred to if you are teaching/helping the horse. I would also include adequate horse care/maintenance. Can they tack up unsupervised, know how to brush, wash, rug etc etc

I can pop over a small jump if I HAD to but I would still say I'm intermediate as I can teach a horse and school a horse. Took my own horse from novice to medium. Backed with help and am bringing on my current horse.
 
Batgirl said:
I think part of the difficulty of this is separating different disciplines too. Thinking of the Olympia girls Vs boys or jockeys Vs eventers. Highly advanced riders at their own sport but not necessarily at another discipline.

I doubt Carl Hester would get round Badminton but he's still advanced.

I liked the description that referred to if you are teaching/helping the horse. I would also include adequate horse care/maintenance. Can they tack up unsupervised, know how to brush, wash, rug etc etc

I can pop over a small jump if I HAD to but I would still say I'm intermediate as I can teach a horse and school a horse. Took my own horse from novice to medium. Backed with help and am bringing on my current horse.
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Carl used to event so I bet he could get round Badminton if he wanted to!
 
Batgirl said:
I think part of the difficulty of this is separating different disciplines too. Thinking of the Olympia girls Vs boys or jockeys Vs eventers. Highly advanced riders at their own sport but not necessarily at another discipline.

I doubt Carl Hester would get round Badminton but he's still advanced.

I liked the description that referred to if you are teaching/helping the horse. I would also include adequate horse care/maintenance. Can they tack up unsupervised, know how to brush, wash, rug etc etc

I can pop over a small jump if I HAD to but I would still say I'm intermediate as I can teach a horse and school a horse. Took my own horse from novice to medium. Backed with help and am bringing on my current horse.
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Carl Hester would still be advanced and you still intermediate under my definitions, as it only says that although you specialise in one thing, you would still be robust enough to go round fences. These would not be high but you would be able to balance the horse, present the horse, stay in balance over a fence, regroup on the other side, to present again.

An example; I was teaching in America and had the opportunity to try my hand at cutting. Not something I had ever done, totally different. But, I was robust enough to give it a go. Not good at it, didn't win in the competition I entered, but robust enough to have a seat, have some horse sense, keep my head up and ride.
 
I would say I’m experienced just not particularly talented or brave. I’ve ridden for over 40 years and owned several horses and done a little of everything at a low-level. Within the levels I’m comfortable with I’ve been moderately successful competitive wise. I’m experienced enough to understand my limitations and keep myself out of mischief on the whole. (Touch wood, fingers crossed etc.)
 
Sussexbythesea said:
I would say I’m experienced just not particularly talented
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With the disclaimer that this isn't aimed at SBTS, but a follow on from this post...

It's entirely possible to be both experienced and rubbish, if you've been working away at something for years, but doing it wrong all that time. That's often worse than being inexperienced, as to re-train you have to fight all the muscle memory and habit you've built up over the years.
 
I don’t think you can classify it in a real-world situation. Every rider has their talents and their bad habits, sometimes their bad habits show up on one horse and they look terrible, on another horse of a similar ability they may ‘click’ and work together very nicely. Personally I’m worst at riding very large solid cob/draft types, ponies think I’m very exciting and like to whizz, sport type things get along with me nicely. My capabilities would likely be different on a 17hh cob than on a sport horse even if they had the same schooling.
In the same vein I have a lot of experience with green, unbalanced horses as this is what most amateur owners need help with. So I’m good at training horses, particularly lateral movements, because again, that’s what a lot of people neglect and then need sorting out. But I’ve never ridden a horse that’s done anything above novice, and I’ve only done novice because it was my horse that I trained up. So I’d be clueless on an advanced dressage horse.
That’s my example but everyone will have different ones, the point being you can’t really classify ‘experience’ or ‘skill’ in riding as it is so dependant on personal experience, the horse, and what the rider is best at.
 
JFTDWS said:
With the disclaimer that this isn't aimed at SBTS, but a follow on from this post...

It's entirely possible to be both experienced and rubbish, if you've been working away at something for years, but doing it wrong all that time. That's often worse than being inexperienced, as to re-train you have to fight all the muscle memory and habit you've built up over the years.
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Agree with this. I was about to say that there is a difference between being able to do something and being able to do it well. Most of us would tick a box saying we could canter without stirrups, say. Could we do it in balance (including the downward transition), looking elegant and get the horse straight, balanced and working over the back? Hmm....
 
Cowpony said:
Agree with this. I was about to say that there is a difference between being able to do something and being able to do it well. Most of us would tick a box saying we could canter without stirrups, say. Could we do it in balance (including the downward transition), looking elegant and get the horse straight, balanced and working over the back? Hmm....
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Er, yes. I would tick that box.

*I might have spent a lot of time taking my best dressage pony to lessons with a fairly high level trainer bareback ;)

But that does occur to me in posts where people ask their level of riding experience with a list of what they "can" do, often including how high they have jumped. I don't care how big you jump, I care how nicely you can do it...
 
Yes I'm sure there are lots of people on here who could do that, I didn't mean to imply there weren't. Just that there are lots who would say they could canter without stirrups but wouldn't necessarily do it well. And I'd include myself in that.
 
No you make a valid point - I was just being silly because it's a bit of an unusual sight to see someone rocking up for a posh dressage lesson bareback. The trainer was very amused - he started out saying things like "we can stick to walk if you need to" and "are you happy to canter" and by the end of it he was just telling me to crack on and bloody work it. He's used to middle aged women who refuse to slip their feet out of the stirrups to walk off :p
 
Also - why would you need to classify people? It's a dynamic thing - some days people ride well, some days people ride like a sack of sh** :p

I can't see what a label helps with.
 
Shilasdair said:
This.
And you'll find professional horse people are very, very wary of declaring themselves 'advanced' as there's always one equid nutter around waiting to disprove it.
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Being wary of overstating ability bit me in the bum once. A group of us (all riders) from all over the country arranged a meet up and decided to go for a hack at a local school. Now in my defence I had not been to an RS for over 25 years so had no clue about their grading system. Had to fill out a very basic form with tick box for experience level. At the time I was competing BE Novice and had just qualified to compete intermediate. One of the boxes was intermediate so that's what i ticked. Was not the most exciting ride I've ever had. Horse saw no reason to canter even when left behind by the rest of the ride.
 
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