Riding trainer/mentor/hand-holder - do these exist?

catembi

catembi

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Thinking ahead to cheer myself up (currently have 3 field ornaments...)

I am v much hoping to have 1 or 2 horses that are compete-able BS/BD & some transport by May-ish next year. However, my 'issues' with competing aren't really with the riding. Trev's issues, in the order in which they appear on a comp day are:

Loading - will load if my old mare goes first; will promptly try & climb/kick his way back out if loaded without her. Goes completely berserk. Not particularly pair bonded to her in the field; just doesn't like being on the lorry alone.
Travelling - will arrive in a real state if travelled alone.
At comp - can just about cope with dr warmup; will flip out sj. Totally irrational with the mindset of a bolter (even tho he's not bolting). Nothing I can do gets thru to him.
In arena - dr can achieve 70s/highest scores of the day; sj will jump v erratically as if he's never seen a jump before in his life. E.g. will make a complete b*lls up of a 2 ft course when he's done 1 m 10 tracks in lessons.

So what I want is kind of a behaviouralist/hand holder to help with loading & travelling issues, & extreme behaviour at shows. To come with me & help me work out some sort of plan, e.g. doing a group lesson or a quiet evening CR etc.

Do these people exist? Is it likely to be prohibitively expensive? The late Catembi was difficult but 'rationally' difficult, i.e. could be contained by riding him hard the day before & riding him in the mornings before we left etc, whereas T is kind of irrational, if that makes sense?

Anyway, just thinking aloud really! I think I'd feel more confident if I had someone with me who'd seen it all before/done it all before & wasn't fazed by any of it cos I'm sure I could have a v nice comp horse if I could work out how to get there. IWSWIM...!

All suggestions/experiences etc welcomed.

T x

(PS we are about to start an omeprazole trial for ulcers as all bloods etc have come back normal [he currently has the go-slows])
 
I think what you describe is a good, sympathetic coach, in the jargon, so yes they do exist. I think what is needed is a decent relationship built on trust, with a fairly long term view: it seems to me you don't so much need someone who can come with you every time as someone who can help you sort these problems out, come up with coping strategies for Trevor (and you!) which work, amd help you implement them in the first instance.

I am always happy to get involved with clients' wider issues and would be happy to go to a competition or two to help if that was needed - but I would see this as steps towards finding a more lasting solution, not a permanent arrangement. On this basis, I would probably only charge something like a normal lesson fee, knowing it is an investment to help someone who will be a regular client. I would be assuming that, if I do a decent job, I will recoup any losses through future lessons booked. I. Would be a bit hacked off if, having put the extra miles in to help with the initial problems, client then boxed up now immaculately-behaved horse and took it off to someone else for lessons :D

ETA: Obviously, I was speaking about a hypothetical client of mine above, not volunteering to come and hold your hand in Cambridgshire :D :eek:
 
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Oh yes, I didn't mean for it to be a permanent thing to have someone with me... I'd want initial help with loading/travelling, then a trip with me to see what he does at comps, then if everyone is still alive & with the correct number of limbs, etc., work out how we are going to proceed.

I would say that I'm capable of managing a 'normal' slightly difficult horse, but as I don't work with horses & have only ever had my own, kept at home, I'm out of ideas with this one! A v experienced person could probs take one look & say (e.g.) oh, he's excited cos he thinks he's going racing, OR he's panicking cos he's frightened of the other horses etc etc, then help me work out a plan to deal with the root cause, whatever that is. Whereas me by myself with a not very horsey o/h... I'm just thinking, eeeeeepppp, I'm gonna die, & am trying to deal with whatever he's throwing at me, & can't really step back & analyse what's actually going on.

T x
 
Sorry,.that wasn't very helpful. :)

What you describe is a much more 'North American' style approach, as the whole industry is much more.client based. It's also more how things work on the Continent and the trainer near me who offers similar options is French. Which is not to say you won't find a GB trained person to offer what you want, just that you will probably have to do some investigating.

In my case (not that I'm any help to you) I have everything from clients I see a couple of times a year, to people/horses I see more than once a week. Most often it goes in cycles, depending on their immediate goals, work situation etc. For instance, with one we did a few times a week in the summer when the horse was getting backed, then we went down to once a week, now the horse is going to have a break as of next week. He's booked to start again in March to show a bit next year.

For another, her horse is off but I'm going to it tomorrow for the dentist as her time is worth more than mine and I'm slightly more likely to ensure a positive outcome for her very sharp horse.

When I do loading I ask people to let me know their plans the first time they go out if I'm not already coming,.so I can arrange to be available if necessary. Usually knowing I'm a phone call away keeps everyone calm enough to stick with the program.

Because I want people yip always feel they have access to the help they need I have 'bulk rate' schooling prices and offer deals for regular clients.

I prefer to see most clients at least once in competition. Horses - and people - can be very different out and about.

I do often kick people out of the nest, too. :D There is more to being a good trainer than keeping someone happy and sometimes knowing when to shove can be as important as knowing when to support.

It's not the culture for trainers to be that way here BUT from what I've observed the higher up the ladder you go the more likely there is to be a team involved. There were more trainers on hand at the YH Champs than the BE 100 I went to the week after.
 
They do exist, I have a lovely team of regular BS coach, then my brill pro rider friend who helps me at home in between BS lessons & at shows & will jump her at shows or home if needed. BS coach would be way too busy & is too big for her anyway. This approach means I have regular help & any problems don't spiral. We are miles from you so my team wouldn't be able to help you, but you could try the BS/BE website for accredited coaches & ring for help? I am sure they will be approachable & if you have regular lessons then will be more than happy to help.
 
Pursuant to mq's comment on a team, it might very well be that the same person might not be able to assist you in all areas (although I think for you, who is more than competent but just needs a hand with a few issues, a decent trainer SHOULD be able to help you in all those areas) but having people who can work together is much more useful.

Do you have a trainer you work well with now? Perhaps ask if he/she has any suggestions. Or haunt the shows and identify trainers who seem to have clients with them and are treating them in a helpful manner then just march up and ask to have a chat with them about your needs. Ask around, you never know. I'd say at least half my business comes from random referrals and I also refer people who contact me but are outside my area, either literally or figuratively, to anyone I might know in their area. It's also always worth asking on here, obviously.
 
Sometimes the decent competition venues also have BE/BS etc respectable trainers holding regular clinics so maybe worth rather than having 'lessons' at home - have them at the competition venue to see if that helps.

Keep the travelling short and sweet at first and to fun things rather than stressful things to see if that helps. With one of my lads at first I ended up driving round a circular loop and back to the yard as he got so excited and bargy off loading.

Maybe see if there is an Intelligent Horsemanship bod near you but not sure what their £ would be and how mega.....

Hope you get out and about and having fun somepoint soon!
 
Wow, intelligent horsemanship... There is a lady a few miles away that I used to give lifts to comps a loooooong time ago, & she's into all that sort of thing, so it might be worth asking if she knows anyone.

I'm sure there's a psychological angle to the travelling thing that I'm not getting. It's more than naughtiness.

Might email her now & ask.

Now that we're suspecting ulcers, I'm wondering whether some of the extreme behaviour is down to a pain response. If he's got ulcers & he gets himself in a tizz, he might produce more acid which causes the pain/panic response? If only they could talk!

T x
 
That would definitely be the case if he does have ulcers - much of the pain from ulcers is caused by the acidic contents of the stomach sloshing around and splashing the ulcerated stomach walls - you can imagine how painful that would be! So travelling could easily exacerbate it...
 
Was it Spotted Cat who found her horse improved travelling with hay and not haylage or vice versa? I'm not sure but it was definitely discussed on a thread about travelling horses with known ulcers. Definitely worth investigating!
 
Yes, I can't wait for the ulcer meds to come so I can see what happens.

He is EITHER chilled OR frantic, with no sliding scale in between. Not rational once he's gone off on one, and won't work thru it.

T x
 
TarrSteps said:
Was it Spotted Cat who found her horse improved travelling with hay and not haylage or vice versa? I'm not sure but it was definitely discussed on a thread about travelling horses with known ulcers. Definitely worth investigating!
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Yes, it was me! He was definitely better with hay rather than haylage, though never perfect. If yours does have ulcers OP, a blood test won't detect it, and I'd always say get a scoping done as it lets you know what you're dealing with - mine had ones caused by a bacterial infection, and all the omaprazole in the world wouldn't have cured them.
 
Can't get him scoped. I've asked and they say that the scope is non portable. I have no transport, he won't load into hired transport and it would be around a 30 to 35 mile hack along A roads. He had v full bloodwork which was all very normal. Wouldn't an infection show up in his white cell count?
 
No, it wouldn't necessarily. I'd had my horse blood tested for everything before he got scoped. Find another vet to scope - endoscopes are eminently portable because I use one for my surveys! It really isn't expensive - think it cost me about £150 for a vet to come to me and scope.
 
I would second finding a vet who will scope him at home, as it's certainly very doable. I can see why vets prefer to scope in a clinic situation but it's not the only possible way forward.


That said, just trying a course of GG is a perfectly valid course of action in parts of the world where vets and clinics are not so easily at hand. The risk though, as SC says is it's not definitive.
 
Re the loading/travelling, I had one very similar that I ended up taking a small ancient pony along with...a bit of a pain, but worked well.

However by the time I started travelling his full brother, who had similar issues, we had lost the old pony, but we solved the problem using mirrors. I put a large one in his stable, & a smaller one in the lorry. He would stand by his "friend" in the stable, & did, at least partially transfer this to the lorry, & as he arrived less stressed, everything else at the competition improved too.

I used stainless steel mirrors for safety.
 
Thank you, quizzie.

He is a lot better with my old mare, but she's 39, nearly 40, & I'm not sure it's fair on her to drag her about from pillar to post. Plus she's not a relaxing influence once we get there cos she crashes about & neighs cos she wants to join in. She competed & won sj up to the age of 29 (when she did a tendon out hacking) & doesn't appreciate being left out.

A mirror sounds a good idea. Has got to be worth a try!

T x
 
And maybe don't always go to shows. Clinics are a great idea, hire an arena in a different area, meet someone to hack out with. My youngster was very stressy and travelled poorly so did lots of short hops to things that weren't particularly exciting. Put bandages on his back legs to start and played around with the whole of travelling with or with out a net. Now a good traveller. No sweating. No anxiety. Still a little painful loading but easier every time and never a problem coming back! Did I pick up he was an ex racehorse too? so may well think he is off racing..
 
TarrSteps said:
What you describe is a much more 'North American' style approach, as the whole industry is much more client based. It's also more how things work on the Continent and the trainer near me who offers similar options is French. Which is not to say you won't find a GB trained person to offer what you want, just that you will probably have to do some investigating.

It's not the culture for trainers to be that way here BUT from what I've observed the higher up the ladder you go the more likely there is to be a team involved. There were more trainers on hand at the YH Champs than the BE 100 I went to the week after.
Click to expand...

This - it's exactly like this on the Continent. What you describe, Catembi, are normal trainer duties in seemingly *any* country in Europe except the UK! Back home, for your trainer to go with you to every single show...well, it's a given. Not even charged, depending on what 'package' you have - when I was in Germany my trainer drove my horses to every single show and helped me warm up for free, it was just included in the 'pension price' so to speak. She also acted / still acts as a life manager :eek: as she says I need a manager, not a trainer, but that's a different story :p

It does seem to be far difficult to find a vaguely similar set-up in this country, I did find it and am v. happy now but had to move not just the horses but even house :eek:

TarrSteps said:
I do often kick people out of the nest, too. :D There is more to being a good trainer than keeping someone happy and sometimes knowing when to shove can be as important as knowing when to support.
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Very true! :)
 
your vet doesn't have a portable 'scope? seriously? then get one who does... my mare was 'scoped here, vet never even suggested travelling her (and she's a v good traveller!)
why don't you just take the old mare along for the day to competitions to keep him calm, she can stand and munch a haynet all day, no? I did this with 1 of mine and it worked fine, avoided dramas.
i'm sure you'll find a local trainer who will be happy to go along with you and help/advise.
 
Oh I would looooove that sort of set-up, Frodo! I am reasonably competent but because I'm always on my own, it probs makes things seem worse than they are. Also I'm not always confident that I'm going about things the right way. Sometimes if it's going horribly wrong, the right thing to do is persist cos in reality it's a 'darkest before dawn' moment, and sometimes it's time to step back & have a re-think, & it's quite hard to draw the distinction between the two, IYSWIM.

Kerilli, we previously took my old mare everywhere, but she will be 40 soon, which I feel is quite old to be dragged about) & she will *not* stand nicely in the lorry with her hay net! She is a TBx (altho a pony) & competed til she did a tendon at the age of 29, & she will neigh & stamp about cos she wants to go jumping. Sometimes I am not sure if she helps or hinders. I could do with her help while loading/travelling, then for her to vanish as if by magic when we get there, then reappear when loading home!

T x
 
catembi said:
Oh I would looooove that sort of set-up, Frodo! I am reasonably competent but because I'm always on my own, it probs makes things seem worse than they are. Also I'm not always confident that I'm going about things the right way. Sometimes if it's going horribly wrong, the right thing to do is persist cos in reality it's a 'darkest before dawn' moment, and sometimes it's time to step back & have a re-think, & it's quite hard to draw the distinction between the two, IYSWIM.

Kerilli, we previously took my old mare everywhere, but she will be 40 soon, which I feel is quite old to be dragged about) & she will *not* stand nicely in the lorry with her hay net! She is a TBx (altho a pony) & competed til she did a tendon at the age of 29, & she will neigh & stamp about cos she wants to go jumping. Sometimes I am not sure if she helps or hinders. I could do with her help while loading/travelling, then for her to vanish as if by magic when we get there, then reappear when loading home!

T x
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ah ok, I understand if she's that old, that's different.
whereabouts are you?
 
She is very old, she has a serious heart murmur so I don't like her getting too excited & she desperately wants to go jumping, the daft old bat. Here she is:

Jenny-1.jpg


But when I still had my lorry, I'd have gone nowhere at all unless she'd come too. She went to dr lessons, sj lessons & various comps. And neighed a lot! I am not sure re taking A instead. He & T squabble, & A is a great heavy lump to take along in a trailer for the ride. He also kicks when travelling as I think the EPSM makes him uncomfy if he has to stand still.

We are in S Cambs on the Beds/Cambs border, within sight of Potton XC if that helps, & about 2 or 3 miles from Waresley Park.

(Background if interested: I have got a 4x4 & am planning to get a new trailer in the spring. T has got the major go-slows, full health check & bloods were normal. I suspect stress ulcers cos in the space of a few days he had a huge stressy over loading into hired transport, got chased around a field for 20 mins by bullocks out hacking (they unexpectedly mobbed us, & I jumped off) & then was so naughty for the farrier that he had a week barefoot til I could get some sedalin, & he's got increasingly slower ever since.)

I haven't competed at a decent level since summer 2006, when I was competing NC/1 m 15/novice BD with the late Catembi right before he started getting ill, & TBH I'm feeling a bit despondent.

T x
 
TableDancer said:
I think what you describe is a good, sympathetic coach, in the jargon, so yes they do exist. I think what is needed is a decent relationship built on trust, with a fairly long term view: it seems to me you don't so much need someone who can come with you every time as someone who can help you sort these problems out, come up with coping strategies for Trevor (and you!) which work, amd help you implement them in the first instance.

I am always happy to get involved with clients' wider issues and would be happy to go to a competition or two to help if that was needed - but I would see this as steps towards finding a more lasting solution, not a permanent arrangement. On this basis, I would probably only charge something like a normal lesson fee, knowing it is an investment to help someone who will be a regular client. I would be assuming that, if I do a decent job, I will recoup any losses through future lessons booked. I. Would be a bit hacked off if, having put the extra miles in to help with the initial problems, client then boxed up now immaculately-behaved horse and took it off to someone else for lessons :D

ETA: Obviously, I was speaking about a hypothetical client of mine above, not volunteering to come and hold your hand in Cambridgshire :D :eek:
Click to expand...


What she said!!

I would (and do) exactly this - if only you were nearer, I'd be in my car now.....!
 
Awww, thankies, spacefaer.

There is a BHS examiner around the corner who is in her 60s & does a lot of stuff with the PC. She has helped me before & is v no-nonsense, but also quite traditional, & I wasn't sure if we need someone a bit more touchy-feely as T is a sensitive soul. She's done a lot with racehorses tho so understands about TBs.

Maybe the thing to do is try the omeprazole, & if no change, get another vets out to scope, then see where we are. Then in the spring start again from the travelling pov as if we'd never been anywhere before or done anything. And get some help from the BHS lady who is only in the next road.

It does help to write it all down; I feel as if I've got a plan now.

T x
 
I have had this set up previously with my trainer and it was something I asked my current YO to do the first few times we went out and she was happy to do that. When Buds is sound again it's something I will definitely do as I'm such a worry wart and need someone to kick me up the bum!
 
That sounds like a plan. :)

Can you get to the BHS person without transport? As you say, not much will happen in the very near future so get the ulcer protocol done and see where you are. When you have an idea when might start up again, get in touch with her, perhaps set up a lesson, and see if you get on. If you don't, then you know to cross her off the list, if you do, excellent, you've found a likely suspect around the corner. Then ask if there is a day you can sit down for a few minutes and discuss your plans. I think if a trainer won't do this for you, unless you LOVE the teaching, it's a sign you may not be able to build the program you want with that person.

I'd say, outside of general chat in lessons, I probably have a short sit down with most clients, either literally or by phone/email/text, every couple of months. Nothing heavy, just to make sure we are clear on the path. Same if anything changes, like a new job or a soundness concern - we tweak the plan accordingly. I also like to know if people have something they really, really want to do, even if it's quite far down the line, so we can make sure we're hitting our markers.

I had one student bring a mind map to her chat!! That made me laugh a bit but hey, whatever works. :)

Anyway, find someone you can work with. That sounds a no brainer but I find, especially for busy working riders and/or difficult horses, it's really important that they feel they can rely on the trainer.

I'd also say distance isn't the end of the world, if you can make a plan. Admittedly, you need someone for your initial work who can be available to you but in the long run it can work with a trainer you don't see often, as long as he/she can set you good homework, can be available to you in other ways, and can meet you for comps as needed.

Remember to keep thinking of yourself as a customer, paying for a service. That gets lost sometimes in horses. Be honest with whomever you go with about what you want/need but don't feel you're unreasonable for wanting decent service.

Good luck. :)
 
Cat, is there anyone nearby you can borrow a pony from? My Shetland nannys my TB x when needed on journeys, & my physio used to borrow a friend's pony when she took her stressy gelding competing?

We both found the ponies enjoyed the attention of going out, but were quite happy standing on trailer or lorry eating as they didn't have 'yipee I'm at a party' expectations :)
 
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