Riding warmbloods - heavy contact?

[soloequestrian]

I rode a fairly well established warmblood last week and was surprised at the weight of contact I ended up with (I was being taught). My friend has been riding some warmbloods for a while now that are trained to Adv/PSG level and she says they are all ridden with heavy contacts, much heavier than the TBs and Iberians working at the same level with the same people. The explanation is that the warmbloods are such big horses that the need to be held together via the contact. This isn't sitting well with me so I wondered what others think?

 

[YourValentine]

Rubbish, unfortunately. Just means they have been badly schooled or possibly "drilled in dressage" for some misguided competition aims - looking at modern DR - which has resulted in them being heavy in the contract as they've had their heads hung on to and not been schooled to be light and balanced in the contract.

Having said that if you ride a range of horses some will naturally be a but lighter, but none should be heavy. If that makes any sense? Can't think of a good analogy.

 

[splashgirl45]

A lighter built horse may be a bit lighter in the hand but nothing should be really heavy in the hand if schooled properly from the beginning, but not many people are lucky enough to have a horse from the beginning

 

[daffy44]

Absolute nonsense. Different horses can prefer a different weight of contact, that generally comes down to the horses personal preference, and their balance and ability to be in self carriage, it generally has nothing to do with the type/breed of horse.

 

[Skib]

I once went to lessons at a specialist dressage yard and rode a Warmblood. I rode only one. He was never heavy on the hand and he knew all the moves that I was learning. One just thought the move, and he did it which was very amazing. I confess I never cantered him because the day when I might have done, I forgot my bp.

 

[teddy_]

Sorry OP, but as above, nonsense .

There’s as much variation within the ‘warmblood’ type as there is in native ponies.

My warmblood is dainty as they come, has very low blood % in her pedigree, and would down tools on you if you were heavy in the contact.

 

[soloequestrian]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought....

 

[4Hoofed]

I mean I can ride my 970 kg Suffolk punch in a contact with one hand and awful joints granted we aren’t at advanced level but I would expect him to get lighter with more education not heavier! If I had to physically hold him together I think my shoulders would dislocate

 

[paddi22]

(A caveat with this as I haven't a clue about this because I don't ride at that level or have ridden any of those kind of horses correctly!), but I've a few friends that are PSG riders and they all explain how the horses do go through a light, featherlight contact stage as they train them to carry themselves, but when they get to the next level and step up the contact gets heavier again as you hold and contain the extreme energy and push they have?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I was at a masterclass with Gareth Hughes yesterday where he talked about this. I took notes for my riders so this is what I’ve written on that point:

Gareth also talks about common mistakes made in training. He talks about the difference between ‘guiding’ and ‘holding’. Guiding a horse is where we want to be. We want to use technique over strength to ride. The difficulty with horses who have been trained by being held is that the more they develop, the stronger they become and therefore the more strength you need to hold them. That is going in the opposite direction of what we are trying to achieve in dressage. When we guide the horse rather than hold the horse, this is what develops self-carriage in the horse. It is that self-carriage without relying on the human to balance the horse that gives you the ability to do things like “give and retake”.

 

[splashgirl45]

I was at a masterclass with Gareth Hughes yesterday where he talked about this. I took notes for my riders so this is what I’ve written on that point:

Gareth also talks about common mistakes made in training. He talks about the differentiating between ‘guiding’ and ‘holding’. Guiding a horse is where we want to be. We want to use technique over strength to ride. The difficulty with horses who have been trained by being held is that the more they develop, the stronger they become and therefore the more strength you need to hold them. That is going in the opposite direction of what we are trying to achieve in dressage. When we guide the horse rather than hold the horse, this is what develops self-carriage in the horse. It is that self-carriage without relying on the human to balance the horse that gives you the ability to do things like “give and retake”.

Did you enjoy the day? I’ve always admired the way Gareth rides, he seems very sympathetic to the horses and I felt he never got marked highly enough as his tests weren’t flashy

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Did you enjoy the day? I’ve always admired the way Gareth rides, he seems very sympathetic to the horses and I felt he never got marked highly enough as his tests weren’t flashy

I thought it was brilliant. It really showed just how patient he is, and also why the horses go so well but aren’t so flashy. His whole ethos surrounds producing that horse to the best it can be, individually, with its natural limitations and not pushing beyond to get the big, flashy stuff.

I wrote a long note for our Team Banana as I jokingly call us but I have hesitated posting it here because of the tensions around dressage at the moment. I don’t want anything I’ve written to be misconstrued and used against Gareth because I might not describe something perfectly.

ETA, if anyone wants my Team Banana note, I’m happy to send, just pm me.

 

[ThreeFurs]

Maybe helpful to think of ratios than poundage in the hand. 10% hand 70% seat/weight aid/ 20% leg? on an educated horse, conversant in seat/weight aids. 10% hand, or wayyyyyy less, actually, if your Alizee Froment and ride the Grand Prix bridleless!

Certain skills in dressage are quite esoteric, but the contact is the biggest mystery in the known world, because its so intimate. I ride a [borrowed] 800kg plus dressage Clydie cross whose at around Elementary, and when he's really round, lifted at the wither, and pushing behind, its the lightest feeling. But my reins are short, I can feel each tiny movement of his jaw, and while neither of us are 'leaning' on each other, the contact is meaningful, alive and elastic. Its 'there' but its not heavy. And my horse is never dead straight, he's always slightly in shoulder fore.

Don't know, even with all the words I have, how to describe it better. It just feels alive and electric, not dead and pulling. And my retired warmblood PSG schoolmaster, who put up with me trying to learn this for ten years, for god's sakes, bless the dear boy.