Rights and responsibilities...rant alert!

[palo1]

Last night, judging from tracks in the gateway, 2 cyclists left our hill gate open. Our 3 on-site horses spent the night on the hill with the hill ponies; thankfully, in spite of the hill pony herd being very territorial, no one seems injured but it was a fair job to retrieve our 3 - and a long walk back with them in a rather screamy, over-excited state (I had to walk the 3 back as son was on the quad). That took about 2 hours. I was so relieved to find them though!

We could have had heifers in the field which would have then have had access to our neighbour's bull.

I know most HHO'ers will completely understand my fear and bewilderment when I couldn't find our horses anywhere on the farm at 6.30 am. I had to check that they hadn't broken a fence somewhere and whilst doing that found our hill gate wide open. It is a really good gate that you can do from the saddle: it has a good latch and swings freely - we even have a bit of rope on it for other horse riders as there is a right of way from the hill across the adjoining field.

Worse, however is the fact that 3 of our late pregnant ewes and one with a 2 day old lamb are now mixed up with the hill grazing sheep (our neighbour's)and will need to be retrieved. Doing this suitably quietly for those pregnant ewes will take hours and the stress and exertion on a hot day is genuinely risky for them.

Another of our neighbours, on an adjoining hill has had to lock their right of way access gates, with the permission of the parish and county council as well as the police, as a temporary measure against illegal off-roaders who have caused quite devastating damage on fragile hill turf ( ground nesting birds, newts etc, etc). New, small gates are to be installed.

This is an increasing problem - where people who have rights of access (or not!) completely fail in their responsibility around those rights; I have found people littering, camping on the hill in large vehicles, lighting fires in tinder dry grass, leaving hill gates open into roads or forestry, not keeping to the tracks etc, etc.

One of the most frustrating parts of this is that we believe last night's incident was the result of our new neighbours, who are not permanent residents but who have bought their dream home in the country. We will go and ask them as we have seen them cycling on this route previously but it's not a conversation we should need to have. The countryside is no more a playground than anyone's garden! Where we have rights, we ALWAYS have responsibilities. Our poor ewes. Rant over

 

[Time for Tea]

I do hope you are able to retrieve your ewes without further serious mishap. There do exist some people who think the countryside is a playground. Apparently.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The media really don't help! Just this week our local BBC NEWS has had an item about 'the right to roam', citing the Mass Trespass on Kinder Scout. My grandfather was part of the MT, as a member of the Ramblers Association, he certainly wasn't expecting the right to roam, he wanted existing footpaths to be available to responsible walkers. I bet he is spinning in his grave now.

 

[palo1]

The media really don't help! Just this week our local BBC NEWS has had an item about 'the right to roam', citing the Mass Trespass on Kinder Scout. My grandfather was part of the MT, as a member of the Ramblers Association, he certainly wasn't expecting the right to roam, he wanted existing footpaths to be available to responsible walkers. I bet he is spinning in his grave now.

Quite. I totally support the maintenance of and access to ancient tracks and rights of way; I too want to enjoy parts of the countryside, on foot and in the saddle, that we don't actually happen to own! We usually love seeing walkers and occasional horse riders making use of our remote and quite historic track and we try to manage our stock accordingly. But increasingly, people seem oblivious to their responsibilities and even basic safety and courtesy. Gah. So, so upsetting to see our poor ewes panting and distressed and our little lamb could have done with a much easier time. The ewes are exhausted, it's hot and they are frazzled so we just have to hope they don't lamb today.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Quite. I totally support the maintenance of and access to ancient tracks and rights of way; I too want to enjoy parts of the countryside, on foot and in the saddle, that we don't actually happen to own! We usually love seeing walkers and occasional horse riders making use of our remote and quite historic track and we try to manage our stock accordingly. But increasingly, people seem oblivious to their responsibilities and even basic safety and courtesy. Gah. So, so upsetting to see our poor ewes panting and distressed and our little lamb could have done with a much easier time. The ewes are exhausted, it's hot and they are frazzled so we just have to hope they don't lamb today.

Have you managed to get the poor things home now? I hope you all get the chance for rest and recuperation before they do lamb.

 

[HopOnTrot]

We’ve had it at home so many times with people coming in and leaving the garden gate open, I don’t understand how someone can walk through a gate they’ve had to open and not close it behind them, makes my brain itch.

 

[Time for Tea]

There used to be a countryside code didn’t there? Just to read and take it on board meant accepting a level of responsibility. I think now people think they can go anywhere they like and do anything they want. Perhaps a notice on your moorland gate? Would that be enough I wonder.

 

[palo1]

Have you managed to get the poor things home now? I hope you all get the chance for rest and recuperation before they do lamb.

4.5 hours after realising ewes and horses were out, all are back home. We just have to hope the ewes can rest now. Horses were good to retrieve too thankfully. But a whole morning's work that was totally unnecessary and the consequences of which we will have to wait and see. Thank goodness our cattle were not involved!

The really sad thing is that we feel so angry and disappointed in people as I always want to share this amazing landscape and we enjoy meeting people who are interested in the area.. That sense of positivity is evaporating...

 

[TheresaW]

I was always taught to leave gates as I find them. I guess it doesn’t help if the person before me doesn’t though.

Glad you have them all home, and hopefully all will be ok.

 

[sport horse]

I have had much the same - lost 3 unbroken horses for 12hours and they had free access to roads including a major dual carriageway. I have nw locked the gate and built a stile adjacent. I get complaints from the local council rights of way but bizarrley nothng from general public.

Rights of Way determined to provide countryside access for wheelchair users but the local town and railway station is pretty inaccessible. Perhaps they should get that right before a 3 mile hilly hike?

 

[palo1]

There used to be a countryside code didn’t there? Just to read and take it on board meant accepting a level of responsibility. I think now people think they can go anywhere they like and do anything they want. Perhaps a notice on your moorland gate? Would that be enough I wonder.

Yes, notices will be going up though I hate them and would prefer not to use them. I was thinking of using dribbly red sheep marker fluid and the instruction 'Shut the effing gate or meet us in person'!

 

[palo1]

I was always taught to leave gates as I find them. I guess it doesn’t help if the person before me doesn’t though.

Glad you have them all home, and hopefully all will be ok.

Thank you. We will probably have to get a notice that says ' This gate must always be kept closed'.

 

[palo1]

I do hope you are able to retrieve your ewes without further serious mishap. There do exist some people who think the countryside is a playground. Apparently.

Yes, it's really strange how we never seem to have these things happen in winter or when the weather is bleak!! Playground indeed.

 

[Rowreach]

Thank you. We will probably have to get a notice that says ' This gate must always be kept closed'.

I had one of those, and then had to add another one with a big arrow on it which said “THIS MEANS YOU GORDON ”

 

[palo1]

I had one of those, and then had to add another one with a big arrow on it which said “THIS MEANS YOU GORDON ”

Funny, but not funny! I am enjoying considering the wording of various signs now...

 

[Rumtytum]

Last night, judging from tracks in the gateway, 2 cyclists left our hill gate open. Our 3 on-site horses spent the night on the hill with the hill ponies; thankfully, in spite of the hill pony herd being very territorial, no one seems injured but it was a fair job to retrieve our 3 - and a long walk back with them in a rather screamy, over-excited state (I had to walk the 3 back as son was on the quad). That took about 2 hours. I was so relieved to find them though!

We could have had heifers in the field which would have then have had access to our neighbour's bull.

I know most HHO'ers will completely understand my fear and bewilderment when I couldn't find our horses anywhere on the farm at 6.30 am. I had to check that they hadn't broken a fence somewhere and whilst doing that found our hill gate wide open. It is a really good gate that you can do from the saddle: it has a good latch and swings freely - we even have a bit of rope on it for other horse riders as there is a right of way from the hill across the adjoining field.

Worse, however is the fact that 3 of our late pregnant ewes and one with a 2 day old lamb are now mixed up with the hill grazing sheep (our neighbour's)and will need to be retrieved. Doing this suitably quietly for those pregnant ewes will take hours and the stress and exertion on a hot day is genuinely risky for them.

Another of our neighbours, on an adjoining hill has had to lock their right of way access gates, with the permission of the parish and county council as well as the police, as a temporary measure against illegal off-roaders who have caused quite devastating damage on fragile hill turf ( ground nesting birds, newts etc, etc). New, small gates are to be installed.

This is an increasing problem - where people who have rights of access (or not!) completely fail in their responsibility around those rights; I have found people littering, camping on the hill in large vehicles, lighting fires in tinder dry grass, leaving hill gates open into roads or forestry, not keeping to the tracks etc, etc.

One of the most frustrating parts of this is that we believe last night's incident was the result of our new neighbours, who are not permanent residents but who have bought their dream home in the country. We will go and ask them as we have seen them cycling on this route previously but it's not a conversation we should need to have. The countryside is no more a playground than anyone's garden! Where we have rights, we ALWAYS have responsibilities. Our poor ewes. Rant over

This really needs a

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Funny, but not funny! I am enjoying considering the wording of various signs now...

We seriously considered "Trespassers will be shot"

 

[Goldenstar]

I can see both sides of this .
I am also not how you are so sure it was your new neighbours .
I often wonder if labelling boundary gates would help or hinder solving the problem.
Could you build a double gate with a pen these where common here when was young but are mostly gone now .
Or self closing gates these can be lethal if goes wrong when opening one on a horse .
If it’s a footpath how about a ladder stile over the wall allowing the gate to be locked .
And yes I know you should not have to .
But you can’t educate stupid only mitigate .

 

[Gloi]

Our yard owner had fell land she always grazed her small herd of Fell ponies on but since COVID has had to stop using it. It was a mixture of people feeding the ponies, gates being left open and fences broken allowing them into the forestry land, out of control dogs and hang gliders that meant she now keeps them at home.

 

[palo1]

I can see both sides of this .
I am also not how you are so sure it was your new neighbours .
I often wonder if labelling boundary gates would help or hinder solving the problem.
Could you build a double gate with a pen these where common here when was young but are mostly gone now .
Or self closing gates these can be lethal if goes wrong when opening one on a horse .
If it’s a footpath how about a ladder stile over the wall allowing the gate to be locked .
And yes I know you should not have to .
But you can’t educate stupid only mitigate .

We are not certain it is our new neighbour but the gate and track are remote, very little used and we know that our new neighbour cycles this way as we have seen him several times either in our field (not on the track) or on the hill. It could be someone else.

There is literally no excuse for not shutting a gate properly though is there?. Its a really decent gate that is easy to open and close, swings freely and has a bit of rope attached to aid horse riders. More gates would be pointless expense and equally likely to be left open in my opinion. Horses and cyclists need access so a ladder gate would not work. Signs might help and our neighbours will also help spread the message locally. We 'could', at considerable expense fence a narrow central track from the hill gate, across our field, to our other neighbour's boundary but that would be grim for most of the people using the track, as well as really inconvenient for our grazing management. It's quite simple, with the right of access comes the responsibility of the care.

 

[PurBee]

I feel your pain palo. It sounds as if large well-placed bold signage is required. You could use dayglo paint for the letters, so it also glows in the dark, and can be read by midnight ramblers.
We were taught leave gates as we find them. Common sense seems lacking in some - we can be lenient and even consider that they thought the catch took but it didnt and swung open slowly without them realising…but again, i was taught check gates are firmly shut!

There’s a peat bog we used to get some peat from that had 2 gates to go through, and there were never any signs or people, and they were sometimes open yet most times closed, with cattle often loose on the land and the track. When we found them unexpectantly open, we often wondered if they should be closed due to the roaming cattle, but i always said to my OH, leave gates as you find them. The gates may be open to allow cattle more roaming space.
We never heard back we neglected a gate, and in these valleys we surely would! Lol! So it still stands and works to leave gates as you find them, if there’s no signs.

I hope your sheep and ponies recover well, and their birthing goes smoothly. Typical for it to be a bloody hot day for such an event to happen…ice-creams all round are well deserved

 

[Sanversera]

lock the gate

 

[Jambarissa]

How incredibly stressful for you, I do hope your ewes come to no harm.

Picking up on an earlier comment, bloody (misunderstanding of) right to roam

We have a footpath right along one side of our largest grazing field then through the farm and off. Realise people have a right to use it and we have styles and swinging human gates so rarely have gate issues. But loads of people leave the path and go wandering through the field, often taking a shortcut and climbing the fence to the road. If you tackle them it's 'right to roam', they seem to think it applies to any bit of greenery

 

[SEL]

One of the farmers where I used to be on livery had to put up signs by every single gate saying either Close Me or Leave Me Open because cows were either ending up where they shouldn't be or gates were shut and cows and calves separated.

Whoever anyone moans about the lack of right to roam down here I remind them that the general public doesn't do a great job on the land they are allowed on.

I'm relieved you caught everyone and I hope the sheep are ok. I'd be terrified if I turned up one morning and my horses had home AWOL

 

[Keith_Beef]

Horses and cyclists need access so a ladder gate would not work.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ladder gate", but a stile is certainly negotiable by a cyclist.

I used to ride along trails and frequently lifted my bike onto my shoulder to climb a stile or to use stepping stones across the river.

 

[palo1]

lock the gate

We would not and could not lock the gate because there is a very old right of way through it (a drovers track). It drives me mad when this happens too (rights of way impeded) though I completely understand the reason - it's usually because people are careless/clueless.

 

[palo1]

One of the farmers where I used to be on livery had to put up signs by every single gate saying either Close Me or Leave Me Open because cows were either ending up where they shouldn't be or gates were shut and cows and calves separated.

Whoever anyone moans about the lack of right to roam down here I remind them that the general public doesn't do a great job on the land they are allowed on.

I'm relieved you caught everyone and I hope the sheep are ok. I'd be terrified if I turned up one morning and my horses had home AWOL

Thank you. Yes, it is the worst thing to feel that panic about lost stock. Thankfully, because of our location, and that of the horses' summer grazing, they have to go quite a long way before reaching a road, and then it is a very minor one. They could still get injured or cause a horrible accident though. I had a sick sense of disbelief when I couldn't find 3 horses and several sheep (though we have many looky-likes for those lol!)

We love sharing this amazing place but people do need to respect it.

 

[palo1]

I'm not sure what you mean by "ladder gate", but a stile is certainly negotiable by a cyclist.

I used to ride along trails and frequently lifted my bike onto my shoulder to climb a stile or to use stepping stones across the river.

Yes, it could work for bikes but not horses!

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

We seriously considered "Trespassers will be shot"

The people who bred my old boy had this sign with the words added " Survivors will be shot again". Always made me laugh.

On the other hand, my friend has a footpath running through her field. She's ended up putting a fence up sectionning off that part of the field. Fed up with loose dogs, cyclists, people using it as a toilet, picnic area and so on. Unfortunately there are some entitled ignorant people around.

 

[KatieDM]

Doesn’t everybody know that if you open a gate, you close a gate?! (Obviously not!)