Rights when mis-sold a horse

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kts1

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Can anyone advise? I bought a horse sold as a 'legend', good to hack alone and for a novice. I paid quite good money for it thinking this would mean it would be good. On paying I paid the majority to the owner and the commission part to the dealer who sold me the horse. The horse was not as described and I took the horse back and was told when it sold i would get my money back. It has been back with the dealer for 6 weeks now and not sold. Any thoughts?
 
This was a private sale arranged through an agent. That will complicate things a lot, and reduce your options as a private sale is not covered by the sale of goods act. You can sue the owner, but you will need to be able to prove that the seller or the agent knowingly described the horse falsely. It is not enough that it isn't fit for purpose, they must have knowingly misrepresented the horse for you to win in a dispute over a private sale.

What country is this in?
 
The dealer has taken it back so you have at least started the process, as long as they remain in contact you have every chance of getting at least a fair part of your money back.
If they were also told it was the perfect horse and believed the owner was telling the truth then it is possibly going to be tricky for the dealer as well because they have been misled and the cash is with the previous owner.

6 weeks is not that long, it will have been slow over the holiday period so give them a chance to straighten the horse out and find a buyer, think yourself lucky they are helping you out, I got stung by an owner in a similar way once and lost out financially.
 
In England. I have text messages from me to her, with me describing my standards accurately and she reassuring me that he was fine. I did have him vetted and it was ok but vetting does not reveal 'hack alone' etc. He was super spooky and also did mini rears and backed into hedges. He also was incredibly dominant and bolshy. I feel naive that I split the payment but thought I was doing her a favour for her finances, not thinking she was doing it so that she didn't receive full payment. If I had sent full payment to her I would definitely be chasing her. I did contact the owner and they said he was difficult to hack alone so they never did, whether they told the dealer that I don't know.
 
I did have him vetted and it was ok but vetting does not reveal 'hack alone' etc. He was super spooky and also did mini rears and backed into hedges. He also was incredibly dominant and bolshy.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/rights-when-mis-sold-a-horse.772217/#QRidYJKdugdeZxJI.99

Re this ^^^^

This is EXACTLY the behaviour that my old boy exhibited when he came to me first of all; he'd never hacked solo as had been in a RS and had never had to, and I had all of these behaviours from him when I started riding him! With the addition of his speciality which was a really wicked corkscrew buck thrown in!

Sorry this isn't probably what you are wanting to hear: But ALL of these things are stuff one might reasonably expect with a new horse when being hacked out solo for the first time with a new owner.

Easy to say this in retrospect when you've sent the horse back, but my feelings are that maybe, just maybe, you gave up a little prematurely and maybe needed to give it a bit more time?? Hacking out solo is THE big Question IME as the horse has to be confident in the rider as their New Herd Leader, and feel safe enough to trust them. That trust has to be gained and earned; and with my boy it took a LOT of groundwork to start with, following by leading out in-hand all saddled up, and then when it felt "time", I just hopped up and rode him home.

I did have a professional to help me, and this was invaluable.

OK so you've sent the horse back, the dealer hasn't quibbled with this, which is good, but - sorry sorry sorry - I DO think it is a shame and you might just have missed out on what was probably a really nice horse, and you might just have cracked it together given time to "bond", coupled with some good sound groundwork in the early stages; and with the help of a good professional.

Sometimes one just has to persevere........ Rome wasn't built in a day as they say, and you obviously liked the horse in the first place. If you rode the horse solo at the dealer's yard and were given ample opportunity to try it out there in whatever discipline you are allied to, TBH I think the dealer is being very generous in taking the horse back.

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear I know.........
 
You were told that he was good to hack alone and owner has now said this is untrue and he was difficult to hack alone. So he was mis-described to you and you have the right to a refund.

When I had my pony on sales livery it was clear that any sale contract was between me and the buyer with the livery agent simply 'selling on behalf of'. If the owner feels the dealer misrepresented her horse then it is for her to negotiate a reduction in or refund of commission based on that as he may be in breach of his contract with her. But that is not your problem I don't think.

Whether you will get one or not is another matter! But i think it is worth pursuing. The fact that you paid the commission directly does not seem relevant. She owed that to the dealer not you. You were just pragmatically cutting out the middle man. Definitely worth asking for legal advice.
 
How long did you have him before taking him out alone? I agree with above - it's possible he just needed time to settle. When my new horse comes I intend to take her for walks, first. Was he good to hack alone at the dealer's yard?
 
Fransurrey said:
it's possible he just needed time to settle.
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The old owner said he was hard to hack alone so she never did. OP was told he was good to hack alone and was suitable for a novice. Sure she may be able to work through the issues but she did not buy a horse with issues, she paid good money for one without issues! I think people who miss-sell horses are despicable, placing riders at risk and leaving unsuitable horses in inexperienced hands which is very bad for both parties.
 
Its very difficult isnt it. Did you hack it out alone before you bought it? When the horse went back did they show you it hacking out on its own? What is the horse advertised as now? Get the facts and collect as much evidence as possible and then say it is not as described and your going to the small claims court to get your money back. What happens when the horse is with the dealer and it has an accident? Who pays the vet bills?
 
Ambers Echo said:
The old owner said he was hard to hack alone so she never did. OP was told he was good to hack alone and was suitable for a novice. Sure she may be able to work through the issues but she did not buy a horse with issues, she paid good money for one without issues! I think people who miss-sell horses are despicable, placing riders at risk and leaving unsuitable horses in inexperienced hands which is very bad for both parties.
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Ah, I missed that bit in OP's second post. Sounds like a miscommunication between owner and dealer. Doesn't help OP, but I agree she should have had money back upon return. OP, do you have BHS Gold (or Harry Hall) membership? Sounds like you need to get proper legal advice.
 
Thanks for comments and I know horses take a while to settle and have bought horses before, luckily they have been ok. But there's settling as in 'ooo look at that' and being very green. I know I was mis sold, I just would like to know if because I split the payments I have any rights.
 
Well say the horse cost £5000 and the commission is 10%. You would pay £5000 to the owner. And the owner would pay £500 to the dealer. You were helpful and paid £4500 to the owner and £500 to the dealer. But you were just being helpful. You did not owe the dealer any money. You had no contract with the dealer. You bought a horse from the owner and paid the owner's fee on the owner's behalf to save other poeple hassle and time.

So I think the split payment is irrelevant. But you need legal advice really. If the law follows the logic and you are entitled to a full refund then a legal letter saying that the horse was miss-sold to you, providing evidence of the owner saying the horse did not hack alone and the dealer telling you he was good to hack alone and stating you want a full refund may be worth doing.
 
The split payment isn't relevant. You bought the horse from the owner for the full amount of money you paid in total. To help the seller, the owner, you paid some of the money direct to the agent/dealer to settle the owner's bill with the agent.

My understanding of agency sales is that if the agent told you the horse was something it is not, you still have to sue the owner who you bought the horse from. It is then up to the owner to sue the agent for their losses from the agent having misrepresented the horse.

It's a complete mess, but if you now have the owner saying it is not easy to hack out alone and never has been, I would demand your money back from the owner in a recorded delivery letter.
 
ycbm said:
The split payment isn't relevant. You bought the horse from the owner for the full amount of money you paid in total. To help the seller, the owner, you paid some of the money direct to the agent/dealer to settle the owner's bill with the agent.

My understanding of agency sales is that if the agent told you the horse was something it is not, you still have to sue the owner who you bought the horse from. It is then up to the owner to sue the agent for their losses from the agent having misrepresented the horse.

It's a complete mess, but if you now have the owner saying it is not easy to hack out alone and never has been, I would demand your money back from the owner in a recorded delivery letter.
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Thanks. Why can't life be simple!
 
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