Rio Eventing thoughts

oldie48

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Just a thought and not really based on a lot of information but is there a problem of owners moving good horses to a few successful riders which not only reduces the pool of riders with good horses but also means that those good riders are often out with a string of horses to ride. I can understand owners with a promising horse wanting the "best" rider they can find but these tend to be the established ones.
 

Mooseontheloose

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Also one should perhaps think that an older, much more experienced rider can nurse a greener horse round but it takes years of top competition to be able to do that. Maybe it was expecting a huge amount from first time Olympic team members with less experienced horses
 

Honey08

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I enjoyed it. I thought it was a good competition. Not one single team had a faultless, easy ride, they all had to work hard.

Team GB was a fairly inexperienced team, we were never really in the running, if anything we were battling for bronze. I would have loved to have seen William and Chilli get that gold. As a pair they have a great bond and would have deserved it, but again it was a big ask, and unlikely considering William's health. I'm just over the moon for him that, other than that Xc blip, he rode fantastically well and is back in the game. I am very sad that Chilli is retiring, but I also hope that William gets to recover a bit more without the Olympics pressure and comes back even better next year. He certainly proved to doubters that he merited his place there.

As for Pippa and Biz, yes it was a really annoying mistake in the heat of the moment, but it happens in the heat of the moment sometimes. I thought Biz was very exciting, he didn't seem phased by anything, and looked as though he could be a fantastic 4* horse and be at future Olympics.

Gemma's horse was the weak link for me, and didn't seem quite a 4* horse. I really felt for Gemma XC, the mare wasn't having fun or helping, and under other circumstances you'd have pulled her up, so I thought she really had to ride hard and get her home.

Kitty, well her horse is amazing. I think there were some nerves that rattled her a bit, but hopefully having ticked the Olympic team box it won't be so daunting in the future.

I was impressed particularly with the SJ day. That must surely be the best combinations of rounds that a British team had for years. It was nice to go up in the planings than sit there cringing while we knocked poles and dropped places.

Generally, yes perhaps the selectors thought we'd have got away with 3* horses that show jumped well, as we would have in the past two or three Olympics. We do need to polish up a bit, but some of our more experienced horses were either injured or had dropped the ball a bit in the last year (Annie Clover looked on great form early last year, as did Nicola's other mare, but there have been too many issues recently..)

Onwards and upwards. It wasn't a total disaster. To come 5th with a inexperienced team is ok. We need to move forward.

As for the lesser known riders going well round the Xc. Did they? I thought a lot of them winged it, sliding, crashing and unbalancing, and it showed on SJ day when they couldn't get away with it. I would rather have our riders on my horse, thanks. I was watching them with a friend and instructor, and she commented that ignorance is bliss - if you've not experienced the dangers and falls you are more likely to just kick than set up.
 

Lexi_

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I doubt Germany would have been particularly pleased with an elimination and two riders with refusals either though! If it hadn't been for some dodgy SJ rounds by Australia and New Zealand we'd probably all be speculating if this was the beginning of the end of their dominance instead.
 

Honey08

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My internet is playing up and won't load that video, but I got the general gist from one of the French comments below it, "thankfully they horse ride better than they dance!"��
 

duckling

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My internet is playing up and won't load that video, but I got the general gist from one of the French comments below it, "thankfully they horse ride better than they dance!"��

Yeah that's definitely true, it's like dads at a wedding after way too many pints 😂
 

Mooseontheloose

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As for the lesser known riders going well round the Xc. Did they? I thought a lot of them winged it, sliding, crashing and unbalancing, and it showed on SJ day when they couldn't get away with it.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...o-Eventing-thoughts/page4#gF8WZ6r8AhMOE6Xq.99

This is true, but I've never seen the point of refusing prettily. You can have several sj's down before racking up a xc plus time penalties score.
Watching the incredible women doing gymnastics last night - that's also taking real courage. Simone Bile is unbelievable. Maybe some of her focus and dedication could be bottled and shared around.
 

Lizzie66

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Thought some people on here might find this interesting reading- the course itself gets a slating!

http://www.wired.com/2016/08/equestrian-eventing-course-trouble/

But the general feeling coming back from the riders before the day was that it was tough but fair and asked questions without being impossible. There were a few falls but these appeared to be at different points and Ian Stark appeared to be attributing most of it to rider error.

Just a thought and not really based on a lot of information but is there a problem of owners moving good horses to a few successful riders which not only reduces the pool of riders with good horses but also means that those good riders are often out with a string of horses to ride. I can understand owners with a promising horse wanting the "best" rider they can find but these tend to be the established ones.

Agree to a certain point but the Brazilian Carlos Parro (UK based) was on a retrained ex-racehorse and he was lying 5th after the XC phase. So "good" horses don't have to cost the earth.
 

TheOldTrout

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It struck me belatedly that Britain has less to feel bad about than New Zealand - all four of our riders finished and we didn't lose a team medal on the final day in the showjumping.
How many of the Olympic team were in the silver medal winning team at last year's Europeans? (I was out of the country while it was on so not very aware of what happened.)
 

teapot

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It struck me belatedly that Britain has less to feel bad about than New Zealand - all four of our riders finished and we didn't lose a team medal on the final day in the showjumping.
How many of the Olympic team were in the silver medal winning team at last year's Europeans? (I was out of the country while it was on so not very aware of what happened.)

Three of the four - the only change was Nicola for Gemma T. All were on different horses though.
 

Goldenstar

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I watched some of the XC last night .
My thought is few horses will have returned to the stables thinking I love my job that night and that's not good .
My other thought that all this talk of building a team for future etc is just plain nonsense it was the OLympics and a great deal of others people's money is spent supporting the system to produce a team that is competitive and clearly the dressage develpment needs a rethink as others are doing it better the XC was simply not good enough but happily we had the SJ nailed we used to be really good at losing metals because of that .
 

TeamChaser

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Time for a selection rethink from BE. Irrespective of the ‘level’ of the Olympic 3DE, GB needs to treat it as a 4* competition and select horses and riders that are competing at that level. If you look at all the other nations, they are sending their best 4* combinations – none of them were riding 2 & 3* horses. They sent their best and they treated it like the major event that it is. The aim being to win.
Our selection process seems to have been based on riders with 4* horses, who when have suddenly become unavailable for whatever reason, those riders have remained on the team but with their second string horse, which in our case seems to have been horses not at 4* level. Yes you can blame rider error for some of the problems we saw but you could also argue that a consistent 4* horse has enough about it to get its self out of trouble when let down by its rider. Some of our horses were just very green and over faced. Of course, every horse at whatever level can have an off day and that was evident in Rio, BUT they all started out with their best.

Can you imagine, Nip Tuck gets injured and BD say to Carl Hester, its OK, you’re in form, just bring the next best horse you have, irrespective of the level its been competing at ! That simply wouldn’t happen. The selection would move onto the next appropriate horse and rider combo competing at GP level.

There is a reason Michael Jung wins so much, aside from his own ability - preparation and careful selection of the right horse for the competition. When he goes for the major championships he makes sure his best horses are prepared and more than up to the job.

I agree with this absolutely KS1. Don't profess to be expert on eventing but keep an eye on the larger events and it struck me that the horses I recognised at Rio (with the exception of Chilli) were on the German, Australian, French and New Zealand teams!
 

TheOldTrout

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I agree with this absolutely KS1. Don't profess to be expert on eventing but keep an eye on the larger events and it struck me that the horses I recognised at Rio (with the exception of Chilli) were on the German, Australian, French and New Zealand teams!

Who would you have selected instead, with hindsight? (Genuine question, not needling at all.) Or do you think that we sent the best combinations we had and were never likely to come back with a medal?
 

TeamChaser

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Who would you have selected instead, with hindsight? (Genuine question, not needling at all.) Or do you think that we sent the best combinations we had and were never likely to come back with a medal?

Absolutely no idea!! As my post says, I don't profess to be any kind of expert and it's not a criticism of the selection process more an observation. KS1 post struck a chord as the horses I recognised (and given I've mentioned I tend to only really follow the larger events) were not on the GB team. It seemed to me that other nations had more horses with 4* form/experience available for selection so why is that? May not have made a difference but did the true 4* horses just handle that xc test better?
 

TheOldTrout

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Absolutely no idea!! As my post says, I don't profess to be any kind of expert and it's not a criticism of the selection process more an observation. KS1 post struck a chord as the horses I recognised (and given I've mentioned I tend to only really follow the larger events) were not on the GB team. It seemed to me that other nations had more horses with 4* form/experience available for selection so why is that? May not have made a difference but did the true 4* horses just handle that xc test better?

I think they did (in answer to your second question). Based on my very hazy memories (so could be completely wrong!) the cross country in Rio caused more trouble than it did London or Beijing, and maybe there was a feeling that it wouldn't be as hard as it actually was?
Just read the article in H&H online about Chilli Morning retiring to stud and it listed among his achievements being on the silver medal winning teams in the 2015 Europeans and the 2014 Worlds. Which could suggest that the situation isn't as bad as the Olympic performance implies (although it could also suggest a lot of other things too...)
 

TeamChaser

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I did see a stat somewhere on xc completion rates and Rio % completions were noticibly lower than any other modern day Olympic xc so was a factor I guess. Just seemed to me that other nations had more experienced horses at that level than team GB. Don't know whether that's down to lack of horse power at that level in UK or selection process. And I honestly have no idea whether you go with experienced jockey in the hope their experience compensates for less experienced horse (that didn't seem to work though) or go for form horses with more inexperienced jockey?!? Luckily not my decision lol!!
 

teapot

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The stats are misleading though. They've defined toughest track by number of clear rounds which was around 40% (and that includes those who got technical penalties). What they've failed to mention is that c.70% of all combinations completed. I seen to remember London had fewer finishers than that. London also had some horrific falls and a lot of holds on course, not sure Rio had one.

Tina Cook's written a column for H&H VIP re the Eventing. Summary is she thought it was a tough but fair track like a lot of PM courses so it shouldn't have been a surprise, was the right level for the competition, and there were just too many mistakes, including the Brits.

Mark Phillips has also said that perhaps more should have been done to study PM courses rather than hoping for a dressage and sj competition.
 

Honey08

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I actually am wondering if we need more 4* course designers in the uk? We do seem to have the same handful at the top who design courses for more than one event, especially at 3*. I think we need to expand the net s bit, and have different people design so we get different challenges.
 

teapot

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That's a good point Honey. You only have to google Pierre Michelet to see a number of articles come up from as far back as 2013 saying 'we need to do our homework for Rio' or 'more time spent competing in France will be needed' etc...
 

Honey08

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And another thing that article in H&H said is that the French team are well used to his courses, which need long, confident distances rather than checking back. Which is pretty much how the French rode it. Their team also spent three weeks in intensive training prior to leaving for Rio. They do seem a very polished force.
 

teapot

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And another thing that article in H&H said is that the French team are well used to his courses, which need long, confident distances rather than checking back. Which is pretty much how the French rode it. Their team also spent three weeks in intensive training prior to leaving for Rio. They do seem a very polished force.

Meanwhile the team gb horses don't run xc competitively for two months...

I wonder how many of those competing at Rio had ridden many PM courses before?
 
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TheOldTrout

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That's a really interesting point about course designers. I'm just remembering Badminton a few years ago, the first time Giuseppe della C designed the x-country course, and how many faults and non-completions there were.
I presume x-country course designers work on a freelance / consultancy basis for each individual event? And the event organisers are the ones who choose and contract the designers? Would it be helpful (for international teams) if this was co-ordinated by the sport's governing body so that riders could get used to a variety of designers?
 

Honey08

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No we don't have a lot of 4* horses at the moment. It showed up at Badminton.

Another point I've been pondering as well as my thoughts on course designers is CCI and CIC formats. We seem to have many more CIC 3* events, which are two day events with shorter xc, and less actual 3 day events in this country. So I wonder how much real 3 day experience our horses actually have. Even the Olympic selection class at Bramham was a CIC... I don't think the Event Rider Masters will help the cause either - again all CIC courses. Real 3 day eventing is dying a bit in the UK.
 

teapot

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Another interesting point Honey. I didn't go to Bramham but the Barbury CIC3* xc time was almost half of what Rio was. Safe to say I'm more and more convinced the Rio course wasn't the main issue!
 
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