RIP boy! In need of advise.

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19 November 2009
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It was 2004 and I was desperately searching for my dream first horse. I'd been riding since I was 2 and had some fanastic (in the way that they ditched you at every oppurtunity and made you rather aware of your fingers) ponies! I thank them for making me the rider I am today. Anyway, my search didn't take long, when I found my boy, who was vetted and failed dramatically. He was 4/5 lame on 3 out of 4 legs! My mum being the horse women she was thought about it and used her experience and knowledge to buy him as this was caused from a poor diet, wrong excercise and being cooped up in a stable.

So I got him home and at 16'1 he was a tank for little me who had juts come off of my 13'2! Everyone questioned my mum on what on earth she had bought?? He was the most sensible and quiet boy in the yard, out hacking and to be schooled but having been a dressage horse, get him in front of a showjump and he was well up for it! For 3 fantastic years we had result after result and discovered his forte really was cross country, he was amazing out on a course and I qualified for the BHS cross country champs in 2006. It was by far the biggest course I rode down at Eland Lodge, but what a course it was and satying at the nearby racecourse was a memory I'll never forget. We had many thrills and spills much to my riding friends delights!

At the end of 2007, I got him in from the field in the middle of summer to find he had lacerated his pastern at the back. Always the Tart in the field, he was flirting with the girls and had obviously got caught up on the straight wire fence. After calling the vet we released the situation wasn't good. So n box rest he went, with many weeks of no not yet, when the vet (who was a scheming money grabbing horror) decided to tap his joints. The whole time he was an angel and loved having his 3 feeds a day and kisses from all the girls! The tap for the pastern came back he had a serious infection and if he wasn;t at the vets that night for surgery the next day we'd loose him. So off he went and it broke my heart. I went up everyday for the week he was in, hand grazing him, buying him treats, camping outside his stable, all the staff laughed! When he was home mum would often find me asleep in the middle of our huge field with him on the end of a lunge line!
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I took the decision after loaning him to my beginnner friend that he was too good to be bounced around so I should Loan him as I had my new girly to concentrate on! I found a perfect family for him and I contacted them, vetted the yard then alowed her to come and see him. The mother walked him round the school once and said she'd love him. Their yard was ony 30 minutes down the road and her daughter was nin a local pony club! Ideal! She was going to use him as a happy hacker and for her daughter to take to rallys every now and then! So off he went on the 22nd march 2008. I kept in contact regularly and each time he was naughty I'd get a phone call to go and have a word with him! I was stil clipping him for her too! She was overjoyed with him and loved him just as much as I did. My parents were going through a divorce and things were messy, in this his passport was lost. The woman had been trying to get a photo copy of it so she could take him to local woods!

One morning the 23rd march this year, she called me and I assumed it would be for that. She had been to my yard and asked for my address from one of the girls. Whenn she got here she told me, there had been a fire and he had died! I was distraught, he was my pride and joy. Things went in a blur but she promised to have him cremated, which if I'm honest I though thats strange I didn't think he would be able to, being as it was from a fire. Weeks passed, mum and her agreed it wouldn;t be a good idea if i went down when he was removed and I still havent been to the yard yet. A month or so later, mum saw her at a show, she said that she had a new horse, which she had always told me she wouldnt do, financially she couldnt afford it. Then things started to twig. She had him insured and had promised me the money.

I wasn;t interested in the money, i just wanted his ashes she said she had, his one remaining rug and his shoes. She started to refuse, i wasnt alllowed any of it and if i wanted his ahes I'd have to pay £600 yet he was my horse? insurance wise, she paid it, but as he was my horse shouldnt I get the payout? Also with the passport, I have no other proof of identity except that he was registered with my vet, hwo would this work with taking her to court?

I need facts to start these things rolling, its not fair that she has a new horse and my boys gone. I've since givien up riding, my sister now competes my girly, it was too painfull and every phone call I got I feared the worst. I still have horrible nightmares and dread what he went through and didnt deserve! It was all down to faulty electrics, these things are supposed to be checked! I wasn;t the only one to loose a horse in that fire, many other girls did too. One has since said there were no ashes, there was nothing left of our beautful horses! I need some advise on the legal situation and is there anything I can do about his passport??
 
Yikes can you edit your post to put in some paragraphs - I have tried to read it several times and failed!

If I get the gist then I would say yes if you owned the horse and he died and the insurance paid out then the money should come to you but you would need to take legal advice if you were not paying the premiums.
 
Your loan contract should state what happens if the horse dies.

The horse I had on loan - in the contract it specified that I had to insurac the horse and pay premiums and if he died then the money would go to owner.
(money claimed againt insurance for vet bills etc would obviously go to vet).
 
Are you sure SS? when my boy was on loan the agreement was that the loanee paid for the insurance but as I was the owner I would get the pay out if he was pts or died.

BB what agreement did you have with this woman??
 
I'd say firstly you need to establish for definite that there was a fire. Was it attended on the night of the fire by the fire brigade and local vets? Was it on the news or in the paper? Are you sure this woman is telling the truth and that she didn't sell your horse on at a market or privately, or that he didn't end up going elsewhere? What insurance company is she with? You need to somehow see if they paid out on her claim. If she is paying the premium then regardless of who owns the horse the money will always go to the policy holder, so if the policy was taken out in her name, any funds from teh death of your horse will go to her. You need to do some serious digging but you also need to be CERTAIN of your facts before you think about suing someone as this can cost thousands of pounds, particularly if you end up losing your case and having to paid court costs, etc. If I were you I'd take legal advice, probably your best bet if you are strapped for cash would be to go to a no win no fee solicitor specialising in equine claims, if you google equine solicitor you will get results.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure SS? when my boy was on loan the agreement was that the loanee paid for the insurance but as I was the owner I would get the pay out if he was pts or died.

BB what agreement did you have with this woman??

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I posted in haste. I would imagine that it would have to be part of the loan agreement - the 'owner' getting the pay out. But also, the insurance company would have to be in agreement also (?).

Otherwise the person paying the policy would automatically get the money.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say firstly you need to establish for definite that there was a fire. Was it attended on the night of the fire by the fire brigade and local vets? Was it on the news or in the paper? Are you sure this woman is telling the truth and that she didn't sell your horse on at a market or privately, or that he didn't end up going elsewhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say, this was my first thought too...
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I would be interested to hear a solicitor's point of view on this.

Surely the insurance payout would be compensation for the loss of the money the horse is worth. It would be the owner who is out of pocket not the loaner so it makes sense that the owner would get the money.

Having said that, there are all sorts of funny rulings in equestrian law so who knows.
 
Perhaps take out the personal and historical bits. Just leave us with the facts you need advice about?

As far as I can tell you have the following dilemma
- your loaned out horse died in a fire
- he was insured by his loaners
- you don't know if you are entitled to the insurance payout
- you don't know what happened to his remains (if any) but would like them

Questions
- did you have a loan agreement?
- did it mention what would happen to the horse in the event of his death?
- would his insurance have covered cremation?
- if not did the loaner pay? (perhaps that is what the 600pounds is for?)

Harsh as it sounds feeling that things are unfair (and it *is* a horrible situation) aren't going to help in this. You need to focus on the facts and stay calm dealing with things.

Places to turn
- your mum (not sure how old you are but I still do at 30!)
- BHS legal helpline (assuming you/your family are gold members which sounds likely)
- his insurance company (you may be able to ask them who would be entiteld to a pay out *in general*)
- VERY CALMLY (w/out mentioning the new horse - it doesn't matter if your old loaners now have more money than they did - so what? Your family are still well enough off to afford horses...) contact the loaner. Write down what you need to know. Even if you call them it can help to have written down your questions so you don't forget anythign if you get upset.
- the YO where he died. They will know what happened to any remains at the time although obviously ashes could be anywhere by now.
(We had a mix up with my Grandad's becasue my gran was in no state to deal with it at the time - I'm more practical abt these things now!)

For what it is worth something like 70% of people killed in fires actually die from smoke inhilation, not burns. A horse can be overcome and die within 2minutes. So, your horse may not have suffered for long and there /may/ have been identifiable remains.

Sorry for your loss and best of luck.
 
PS - to posters who were concerned there may not have been a fire. I thought that too. A quick google shows that there was one near Reading on the date the OP mentioned and that several horses died.

Not sure if is the same one but as it yard was near to BB assume she'd have heard in the local press.

Would probably still want some kind of proof that my horse had died though. (Can help with grieving too.) Presumably there will have had to be a vet's certificate for the insurance? Might be worth requesting a copy...
 
When we had our boy out on loan, the loaner paid the insurance, when we sadly lost him in May this year to grass sickness my grandma as the owner got the insurance pay out. I am not sure if this is the same across the board, I would say it should have been decided/confirmed in the loan agrement.

Sorry to hear of your loss, hope you soon find peace of mind. Please keep us informed on your decision, what ever that may be, whether you choose to take legal action or not. Would be interested to hear a professionals point of view on this. Might be an idea to be certain that there was a fire and as others have said your horse wasn't sold on ect....
 
Did your loaner take over paying your insurance policy or did she take out a new one? if she was paying for your policy ring the insurers for a chat.
And, did she 'lose' the passport or did it get lost with you?
Do you know who issued your passport? can you contact them for a duplicate and are you sure she hasn't had a new one issued in her name?
Please say you did have a loan agreement of somesort with the loaner which will name you as the owner.
What i don't get is why would a loaner pay £600 to have someone elses horse cremated, i would want to see a receipt and the ashes! it sounds a bit dodgey to me, has she used the fire to cover that she has sold the horse on?
Has insurance been paid out by the YO? if it was faulty electrics they would be liable, if and where did that money go?
As the others have said you need to get advice
 
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