RIP Kauto Star

Patterdale said:
The rumour is that he decked someone and then ran into a wall at speed. They tried to treat at home (under the vet) as they were keen to cover up, but finally took him to the vet hosp at 11pm sat night. The accident was on weds. He had been standing in with multiple broken bones until then.
If these allegations (from a usually reliable source) are true, then it is truly disgusting of them.
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Decked someone, you mean he bolted or they fell off or something, anyway we will never really know, injuries are more consistent with your version. He would not be a novice ride, which would probably be one reason PN wanted to keep him at Ditcheat.
 
Patterdale said:
The rumour is that he decked someone and then ran into a wall at speed. They tried to treat at home (under the vet) as they were keen to cover up, but finally took him to the vet hosp at 11pm sat night. The accident was on weds. He had been standing in with multiple broken bones until then.
If these allegations (from a usually reliable source) are true, then it is truly disgusting of them.
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The rumour mill is certainly grinding away! It does seem strange, though not impossible, that the injuries sustained were at both ends, and from a simple fall in his paddock. A fractured pelvis possibly, but the main and major damage, it seems, were the spinal injuries around his withers. Not impossible, obviously, but enough to raise an eyebrow, or two, and when coupled to the level of secrecy, then those who made the decision that a blanket should be thrown over this whole sorry tail, really haven't helped matters.

A national treasure has been lost, and that's the real sadness.

Alec.
 
redrufus said:
Well I, for one, do think this is a tragedy. That a horse as brave, beautiful, talented and charismatic should have been subjected to this 'retirement' and then die in such awful suspicious circumstances, is a tragedy in my eyes. Clive Smith and Laura Collett should hang their heads in shame.
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Whether or not the circumstances of his accident are suspicious I have no idea, it will be the cause of much speculation and probably never be explained to the satisfaction of his fans.

His "retirement" has been criticised from all angles and was never going to please everyone, retiring to stay in PN's yard would have made most people happy but was it right for the horse to remain in training in the routine of a busy yard where he was no longer going to be the number 1 horse, where he would have been "worked" each day to exercise and be kept fit but with no racing to enjoy, there is limited hacking in the area, little turnout on the main yard, I am sure Clifford would have continued to care for him and ride him out but to me that is not a good retirement.
Maybe going to Laura was not ideal but what were the options for a healthy, fairly tricky individual that had the media attention he had, he could have simply been turned away but that has it's risks, CS is attention seeking he wanted to continue to keep KS in the limelight and his fans still wanted the opportunity to see him parade. I think he probably enjoyed the last 2 years, plenty of fuss, being turned out regularly, enough work to keep him active mentally and physically, certainly a better retirement than many horses have, I think LC is being unfairly criticised for her part in his retirement, I don't think many young event riders would have turned away the opportunity to have him in their yard but she may well regret it now.
 
It doesn't really matter what happened. The horse suffered catastrophic injury & was put to sleep- I'm not sure why people have to know all the details.
 
The more I read the sadder I feel.
The loss of a wonderful horse, the trainer who knew him best being disregarded, the demeaning display at HOYS, and now this.
: (
 
I don't understand why they tried to keep him going for so long. Either of the injuries sustained would have been enough for most horses to be put down, both together what chance was there? Even is the accident was deemed recoverable the treatment would most likely be awful and include a period of being cross tied. Why would anyone put a retired horse through all that? The horse didn't owe anyone a thing. Why did they not have the decency to end his suffering as soon as the full extent of the injuries were known?
 
el_Snowflakes said:
It doesn't really matter what happened. The horse suffered catastrophic injury & was put to sleep- I'm not sure why people have to know all the details.
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Because when you own/care for/ride a horse like KS who was a national treasure and considered to be one of the great horses of his time, you will have the eyes of the industry and all of his fans upon you. With great power comes great responsibility and all that. Trying to cover things up is never going to end well is it?
 
RunToEarth said:
Because when you own/care for/ride a horse like KS who was a national treasure and considered to be one of the great horses of his time, you will have the eyes of the industry and all of his fans upon you. With great power comes great responsibility and all that. Trying to cover things up is never going to end well is it?
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I also agree, and when a horse is promoted and offered in to the public arena, with those who are involved with him bathing in the attendant glory which accompany's success, then YES, they most certainly are answerable to the fans and those who've been the mainstay of their support. Without the £2.5 MILLION in winnings, winnings provided by the racing public, so the likes of Smith et al, would be unlikely to own race horses. It's an interesting point that with the Racing in the ME, there are no Bookies, because gambling for money just isn't 'done'! :)

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
The rumour mill is certainly grinding away! It does seem strange, though not impossible, that the injuries sustained were at both ends, and from a simple fall in his paddock. A fractured pelvis possibly, but the main and major damage, it seems, were the spinal injuries around his withers. Not impossible, obviously, but enough to raise an eyebrow, or two, and when coupled to the level of secrecy, then those who made the decision that a blanket should be thrown over this whole sorry tail, really haven't helped matters.

A national treasure has been lost, and that's the real sadness.

Alec.
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This crossed my mind when I was having a discussion about it last night at the yard. Something doesn't add up and the truth will hopefully come out.
 
Alec Swan said:
I also agree, and when a horse is promoted and offered in to the public arena, with those who are involved with him bathing in the attendant glory which accompany's success, then YES, they most certainly are answerable to the fans and those who've been the mainstay of their support. Without the £2.5 MILLION in winnings, winnings provided by the racing public, so the likes of Smith et al, would be unlikely to own race horses.
Alec.
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Totally this ^^^ you can't have it both ways, i.e want the public attention and glory when things are going well (sic!)...and then not be answerable to the fans when things go wrong!
 
The thing is that they probably didn't know he had multiple broken bones to start with, we don't even know how complete the fractures were. Presumably he seemed ok to cross tie in case (standard treatment if he had had a fracture) and plan to xray but that they didn't really get to that point. -The figures do actually stack up in favour of pelvic fractures returning to full work/winning races etc.

Yes if privately owned he may well have been PTS but there are so many unknowns about the pelvis and even if they had scanned there was no way they could possibly know about anything going on in the neck which resulted in the paralysis and final decision.

I can completely understand them saying he was in the paddock even if he wasn't rather than allow some poor groom to be vilified for the loss of a national treasure either through mistake (which we all make) or accident.
 
My pony was treated at home (under vet care) for a broken pelvis and returned to work and Id still sound 19 years later... We wernt trying to cover up- she just didn't need hospitalisation (or to be moved).
If they'd had a new method of imaging (yet to be made) and could have known the extent of his injuries then maybe things would have been different- but they just wouldn't have had any way of telling, 4.5 days to see if there's improvement following trauma (with appropriate pain relief) isn't outragious to my mind. I certainly don't think my pony still jumping aged 29 (broke pelvis at 10) would have been better if shot as soon as she did it. It's a gamble keeping them alive to see if they can recover or they'll go downhill, but horses have returned to racing after both broken pelvises and broken necks, it wasn't a clear cut hopeless case.
 
ester said:
I can completely understand them saying he was in the paddock even if he wasn't rather than allow some poor groom to be vilified for the loss of a national treasure either through mistake (which we all make) or accident.
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Me too.

Also I've had a neighbour's mare here in the cross ties, with a non displaced fractured wing of ilium, for several weeks. She was VERY sore to start with, but the vet forbade the use of painkillers as she was not, under any circumstances, allowed to lie down. It was pretty unpleasant for her and for us for the first few days, but she went on to make a full recovery.

So maybe the decision to keep him going initially, rather than PTS, was understandable whilst his injuries were fully assessed.
 
ester said:
I can completely understand them saying he was in the paddock even if he wasn't rather than allow some poor groom to be vilified for the loss of a national treasure either through mistake (which we all make) or accident.
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I can understand why they would do that. However, knowing the controversy around his second career and the public slaughter of his tour of Olympia last Christmas, I'm not sure it was a good idea to cover anything up - there is nothing like the equine world for rumours, opinions (no matter how misplaced) and baying for someone's blood. It might have been an idea to issue a statement on the Wednesday in hindsight, so it looked like less of a scandal to en mass.
 
el_Snowflakes said:
It doesn't really matter what happened. The horse suffered catastrophic injury & was put to sleep- I'm not sure why people have to know all the details.
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^^^^
100% This! Freak accidents happen, with the benefit of hindsight many of us have done things we'd now do differently.

RIP Kauto Star
 
this fabulous, great, great horse was utterly let down in retirement. I am just praying the rumours circulating about what really happened to Kauto are just rumours. But they seem very severe injuries for a paddock accident unless he tried jumping out and sustained a rotational
the fact it was all kept very quiet does not sit well either.
 
ester said:
The thing is that they probably didn't know he had multiple broken bones to start with, we don't even know how complete the fractures were. Presumably he seemed ok to cross tie in case (standard treatment if he had had a fracture) and plan to xray but that they didn't really get to that point. -The figures do actually stack up in favour of pelvic fractures returning to full work/winning races etc.

Yes if privately owned he may well have been PTS but there are so many unknowns about the pelvis and even if they had scanned there was no way they could possibly know about anything going on in the neck which resulted in the paralysis and final decision.
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This.

Without seeing a written vet report (which they have no obligation to share), it's impossible to say whether what they did was right or wrong. I would imagine that the vet thought it was possible he would come right but sadly he deteriorated.

Someone said about a cover up/suspicious as they treated at home. I work in equine insurance and have seen my fair share of injury advices for pelvic fractures. 9 times out of 10 they are treating at home as they don't want to risk further injury. And then it can go either way really. I think it's very hard to determine the extent of a pelvic fracture 100% and yes while some horses can come right, others will dramatically go downhill quickly or some will remain lame for a month with severe muscle wastage and end up being put down. Sadly there isn't much you can do for a pelvic fracture other than wait and see.

I would imagine they weren't fully aware of the neck injury but if so, again, not much you can really do for it other than wait and see.

Very sad end for a racing legend.
 
I have not been on the Forum for some time, have been a member, backwards and forwards for many years, left as it has turned from a good knowledgeable site with many experts giving advice and help to many people into a "facebook" thing, ie nasty uninformed, made up stories. I also found it sad when KS did not stay at PN yard, but sure there was reasons, CS owned the horse paid the bills, it was up to him. I wanted to remember KS sweeping over fences, sticking his head out to win races, grazing with Denman, but all I have in mind now is a vision of a horse in pain, head down and unable to stand, thanks to the person who either made up the socalled report from vets, or decided for some reason to put it in the public domain. Given that Balthzaar King was at Leahurst for some weeks with a life threatening injuries and is now back at home happily, we were kept informed without seeing a vet report, it was not needed. No matter what happened to KS, and after all some of you are accusing his keepers of lying, he is dead, and I am so sorry.
 
I strongly suspect that even though the horse concerned had an ego to match most, it was but nothing compared with the egos of those who surrounded him.

Sad to think that those who genuinely cared for the poor boy, couldn't reach accord.

Alec.

ps. welcome back Freddie, I've missed your posts.
 
You see Alec, unless you personally know the people involved, and have spoken to them face to face, nobody can for definite say what went on as he left PN yard. All I know and I say again, it is not right to make a horrible situation worse by repeating rumours, and for goodness sake to quote facebook posts as someone has, come on get real. One of the best tributes I read was by AP McCoy, I will not quote but you can look it up, but I was fascinated to read that his daughter Eva keeps her pony at Laura Colletts yard and rides there often, I will let you read remained of his tribute.
 
el_Snowflakes said:
It doesn't really matter what happened. The horse suffered catastrophic injury & was put to sleep- I'm not sure why people have to know all the details.
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The horse was not put to sleep straight away, and the owner has a bit of an agenda to overcome, an agenda which is all of his own making, that is why there is speculation.
 
Freddie19 said:
Given that Balthzaar King was at Leahurst for some weeks with a life threatening injuries and is now back at home happily, we were kept informed without seeing a vet report, it was not needed.
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Balthazar King's fall and subsequent taking out by another horse was seen by millions on the tv screen and the trainer was very quick to keep everyone updated though an open and honest policy.

Sadly, the PR machine has never been reliable when it comes to Kauto Star's life post racing, from the leaving of Paul Nicholls' yard onwards. It appears to have failed them once again. IF they are found to have been lying, or the statement released is false, it does not do any of those involved any good reputation and trustworthiness wise.

Anyone who deals with horses knows and appreciates that accident can and do happen. So in this day and age where it takes 30 seconds to send out a press release on social media, why on earth did they keep it quiet? A very simple statement of 'Kauto Star has had a fall/accident at home, currently under veterinary monitoring and treatment. We will update as we know more' would have been far better than the ****storm that's happened in the last twenty four hours.

Honesty goes a long way, especially in the equine world and even more so when it comes to high profile names. Whilst I'm of the opinion it shouldn't be necessary, for a horse with such a following, the media game has to be done. In the same way, the updates about Balthazar King was regular and open, because of being another racehorse with a massive following.
 
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teapot,

I often rely upon and use an old adage; "When the truth'll do, use it". Others don't, it seems.

Alec.

and ets, with such a shroud of secrecy, did those who were able to make such decisions, consider it to be such a good idea?
 
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Freddie19 said:
Given that Balthzaar King was at Leahurst for some weeks with a life threatening injuries and is now back at home happily, we were kept informed without seeing a vet report, it was not needed. No matter what happened to KS, and after all some of you are accusing his keepers of lying, he is dead, and I am so sorry.
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That is completely incomparable. He fell in one of the biggest and most controversial races in front of an international audience, and Philip knew it was right to keep everyone updated.
The KS scenario is entirely different.
 
I think it is hard to decide to do an update when you don't really know the extent of the situation. I can understand it being decided it would be better to wait and give a more accurate view in a few days time, obviously in hindsight with the result that was possibly the wrong choice.
 
Bonkers2 said:
The horse was not put to sleep straight away, and the owner has a bit of an agenda to overcome, an agenda which is all of his own making, that is why there is speculation.
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I am quite sure the decision to try to treat his injuries was made in conjunction with veterinary advice.
 
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