RIP Peg - horse kicked and got its leg broken - and a question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Don't get me wrong its a lovely yard - but strange horses and monthly fracasses are I guess a part of livery and I'm a precious cow about her and I don't care who knows it :)
 
BoolavogueDC said:
But I get the impression a lot of people chalk this up to "horses being horses" but in my mind horses (generally speaking) don't scrap like that if there's enough room, food and if they are introduced really well.
Click to expand...

I think that 95% of these type of accidents can be avoided with proper room, food and introductions, yes.

RIP, Peg.
 
i NEVER turn out together if a horse has hind shoes on, for exactly this reason.
unshod they can still do a lot of damage but it is less likely.
R.I.P. Peg, condolences to owners.
the mare who did it should be kept alone imho. i've known a nasty mare (at a livery yard yonks ago) which would just go and attack another horse for no reason at all. i had to hold a horse whose leg she had broken while it was shot... tragic.
yes, of course horses can injure themselves in all sorts of stupid ways but it's our job to minimise the risks imho.
 
I think it is mostly horses being horses and this was an unfortunate freak accident.

If the horse that kicked Peg was a known bully she should turned out in an individual paddock or asked to leave the yard if this is unavailable.

As a horse owner we choose to put turn our horse out without a proper introduction process or in an over crowded field etc rather than move to a different yard and possibly pay more.

A friend of mine was considering trying to claim compensation for a injury sustained in the field, they had no livery contract and were told by the CAB and their insurance company that they wouldn't be able to claim as they had chosen to turn their horse out.

How far a YO's duty of care goes will depend on what is in the contract the livery has signed.

In an ideal world I'd like never to have to introduce a new horse to the small herd mine is in despite them not being shod behind and being in a large securely fenced field with enough grass as he's had a previous injury that leaves him prone to re-injury.

Unless I can afford my own land to manage as I see fit that isn't going to happen and I think it would be far, far crueler to keep him stabled or in a field were he couldn't fully interact with other horses.
 
Last edited:
I don't turn my mare out with other horses because of this. She's unshod and most of the time friendly and likes to play/groom etc but she's also a little b*tch when she wants to be and has caused some nasty damage to other horses in the past. Luckily as she isn't shod the damage wasn't major but I'm not prepared to risk her or someone else's horses so she's kept in a paddock on her own.
 
First - I'll join everyone else in saying that I feel desparately sorry for Peg's owner - she must be devastated - RIP poor Peg.

However.

Horses, like all animals, are unpredictable and live in a very well-defined social structure. We can speculate all we like about why or how poor Peg was kicked . . . and we can debate all we like about the rights and wrongs of keeping horses together or apart . . . but the fact remains that things we can't control happen between horses kept in fields and sometimes one comes off rather worse (sorry if that sounds harsh, it isn't meant to be).

My boy is coming back into work after four weeks box rest after being kicked quite badly in the field - he's been in the same field with the same horses for 9 months with no issues . . . there was a new gelding introduced about 7 weeks or so ago - he spent two weeks in the next door field getting acquainted and when he went in with our herd (7 in total) we all booted and rugged up and all seemed well. No'one saw it happen . . . no'one knows who kicked whom . . . all we know for sure is that Kal got booted . . . twice . . . on his right foreleg. I have to put it down to horses being horses. And if we weren't moving yards, I'd be happy to put him back in the field with them . . . it was a fluke accident. And I'd much rather he was out with company so he can do horsey things (play, mutual groom, stand nose-to-tail, graze side-by-side, participate in herd hierarchy) than be in a paddock on his own for any protracted length of time . . . horses just aren't designed to live alone/apart from other horses.

We were very lucky - if Kal had been kicked two inches lower it would have been right on his knee joint and would likely have caused much more severe injuries . . . but there's no point focussing on what might have been. Would I feel differently if his injury had been severe enough to warrant being put to sleep? I honestly don't know. I know I would have been heartbroken . . . and it would have taken me a loooooooooooooooong time to contemplate getting another horse (Kali, to me, is irreplaceable) . . . but I don't believe I would have been able to blame anyone.

P
 
Wagtail said:
No way would I have my horse in with another that was capable of such violence.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately ALL horses are capable of kicking another horse and doing serious damage. I have known of an unshod Welsh A breaking a larger pony's leg irreparably.

In the 12 years I have owned my boy I have NEVER seen him so much as lift a leg to another horse, even when others act aggressively towards him. His field companion came in a few months ago with a nasty kick - fortunately although serious enough to require a vet the horse has fully recovered. There were only the two horses in the field... Should I therefore isolate my horse for the rest of his life?

Best wishes to Peg's owner, what a terrible thing to happen. Yes, I would rather have proper introduction with horses as I do believe it minimises risks.
 
Last edited:
rhino said:
Unfortunately ALL horses are capable of kicking another horse and doing serious damage. I have known of an unshod Welsh A breaking a larger pony's leg irreparably.
Click to expand...

'Capable' is the wrong word, yes. I should rephrase that. If a horse was known to corner another and repeatably boot it , then I would not turn my horse (or any one elses) out with that horse. I have seen it with only two horses and the behaviour is completely different to the occasional kicks horses give one another. The corner and repeated kicking is an attempt to kill the other horse/person/animal. I have seen horses run another down and do this. It is a different thing all together from 'horses will be horses'.
 
Kerilli and Wagtail sum up my views on this.

My mare was killed (in shock with multiple fractures and severed artery - vet finished her off, but could have gone before vet arrived), by a mare who cornered her and kicked until she went down. They had been in the same field, with others, for several months. The attack was witnessed.

There is no way of identifying horses known to be vicious. We did notarise the owner concerned that they were the keeper of a dangerous animal. that is all you can do if it is the first known attack.

Deepest sympathy to the poor owner.
 
Sadly these things do happen from time to time. My mare was kicked in the hock while out in the field, and as a result needed serious surgery and long term box rest. She was well settled and in a herd with other mares.

I am not sure whether it was a particularly hard kick or just a very unlucky spot perhaps?

I'm sorry to hear Peg was PTS. My mare won't have a ridden career, but at least she is alive and will hopefully have a long, happy and useful life as a broodmare.
 
Wagtail said:
'Capable' is the wrong word, yes. I should rephrase that. If a horse was known to corner another and repeatably boot it , then I would not turn my horse (or any one elses) out with that horse. I have seen it with only two horses and the behaviour is completely different to the occasional kicks horses give one another. The corner and repeated kicking is an attempt to kill the other horse/person/animal. I have seen horses run another down and do this. It is a different thing all together from 'horses will be horses'.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. The situation I described actually happened within a small herd who were established. It took a yard move for one mare to decide to change her herd position (I think I have mentioned this before) Luckily myself and my husband were on hand both times because we had to split it up, she meant it!! I had to reconsider having her here with us, she was sold to a good home where she is settled and happy and has shown no recurrent behaviour with any other mares or geldings. She just did not want the other mare in her way. Very nasty and we were very lucky.
 
I forgot to add that this experience has not changed my view that it is best for horses to have company - I would not wish to turn my mare out on her own.
 
mtj said:
Kerilli and Wagtail sum up my views on this.

My mare was killed (in shock with multiple fractures and severed artery - vet finished her off, but could have gone before vet arrived), by a mare who cornered her and kicked until she went down. They had been in the same field, with others, for several months. The attack was witnessed.

There is no way of identifying horses known to be vicious. We did notarise the owner concerned that they were the keeper of a dangerous animal. that is all you can do if it is the first known attack.

Deepest sympathy to the poor owner.
Click to expand...

That is heart breaking. I am so sorry.

But yes, once a horse has been witnessed to do this, it should be removed. Both the horses I witnessed do this (both times luckily we got the victim out before they went down) I had never seen any sign of unusual violence before. Both were geldings so it seems it happens with either gender.
 
Of course accidents happen, but that doesn't mean you don't need to try your hardest to minimise the risk. I'm with Kit on this, there's no way I'd be putting my horse out with the alleged perpetrator of this crime.
 
Having been there, there are two clear causes to incidents where animals end up dead.

1. A horse in the group is unsuitable for group turnout. This individual should be removed from the herd.

2. The herd is confined to too small a space.

With everything, you will get freak accidents. But our old yard ended up with three dead horses in a year due to turnout.
Would you want to be the second owner who found out that it wasn't just a freak accident?
 
Oh, and please be VERY careful about throwing around accusations about violent horses.

Horse number 3 was PTS after she was accused of the violence, she was said to have attacked horses 1 AND 2, although horse 2 was eventually killed by another horse.

The vet sobbed as she killed her because she was a healthy, happy horse.

So yeah. Do be careful about throwing out accusations willy nilly.
 
Putting a horse to sleep for such an attack is rather OTT! That is so sad. Separation is the answer if the attack is witnessed.
 
So a healthy horse was pts because of accusations, no-one actually saw said horse do anything, even if they did as Wagtail says seperation is the answer rather than ending her life.
 
God, just the title has had me swimming back 30 years :(

My first riding pony, Tally, a chesnut gelding, was out in the field, and I'd had him four weeks - I went to call him for his dinner after school, and he was right over the other side of the field, not moving. When I got over to him, he was barely alive - his near hind was literally hanging by skin and tendons.

Another horse, a big bossy grey mare called Tequila Sunrise was walking around with blood right up her hinds, stomach and back. Although I hated her at the time, I would never have wanted any harm to come to her. PTS is very OTT....it's horses !

Never will i forget that. Just terrible. But it was one of those things, a thunderstorm had set them off we think, and they all went ballistic, Tally got the full brunt of a kick.

So very sorry it's happened again. sm x
 
Last edited:
Very sad. :(

The yard that i am on does not turn out horses with back shoes on out with other horses unless the other owners of the horses it will be with have agreed it is ok. Therefore, we only have one horse with back shoes on out of 30 odd. They are in full work and manage fine either barefoot or with just fronts.

Seeing this has made me begin to think that back shoes are actually very dangerous. Horses back feet are dangerous anyway, why give them a weapon as well?

RIP Peg x
 
Sorry to hear about Peg and think most people have known something like this happen. However, to me the ponit that the OP was trying to make (or ask) was, in this instance,could it have been prevented? Our yard is very careful about introducing horses and all are paired up - maximum 3 in a field with the exception of the grass liveries. There is a policy that any new grass liveries have to have their back shoes removed before going out with the geldings or mares and that makes a massive difference.

But I also appreciate horses will be horses. Both mine are currently turned out solo. My old mare because, despite being wildy in love with the gray mare stabled next to her, she turned into the bitch from hell when they went out together and was quickly removed. Showed the same behaviour with anothe rmare so the decision was taken that she clearly prefers to go solo at the grand age of 22. Youngster is now solo as plays far too hard. When he grows up a little we will try again!
 
There are definitely horses out there that cannot be in with other horses. My last horse was one. He was with three other horses for four years, then all of a sudden he turned, and attacked an elderly mare - presumably to get the old out of his harem. He was absolutely dangerous, got her down with his teeth, and would have killed her if so many of us hadn't rushed into the field.

My horse was never in company again after that, he grazed alone quite happily for years after, tho he was ridden most days with other horses. I never trusted him again to share a field.
 
ldlp111 said:
So a healthy horse was pts because of accusations, no-one actually saw said horse do anything, even if they did as Wagtail says seperation is the answer rather than ending her life.
Click to expand...

I cannot say Horse 3 killed Horse 1 or attacked Horse 2. But it's undeniable that she had an issue with certain horses.

There was no other turnout and owner, responsibly imo, decided against selling her.

There may have been a physical/mental reasonn for the attacks.

The vet was young, female and had spent the better part of 6 months treating the horse for various other health conditions. It was as much frustration that once she was cured, the aggressive streak came to the fore.

I'm not happy with the situation. I was only told after the deed was done as the owner knew I'd try saving her. But it's largely irrelevant what we all think now as the horse is dead.

I'm just warning other owners may feel pressured to have aggressive horses PTS under the same logic dangerous dogs are PTS.
 
It's also worth noting... uncharacteristic aggression in mares should ALWAYS be investigated by a vet...

... Dorey once savaged another horse. The same Dorey who is perpetually bottom of the pecking order!!! She was going mental for it!

Turned out she had polycystic ovaries which was causing massive behavioural issues. Dorey is now fine in herself and with other horses.
 
Difficult one. My horse was kicked in the field last November. He was out in a 20 acre field with another 10 geldings, all of which had been together in a herd for a good few months. There were some big horses in the field, a couple quite dominant but there were never any real issues with fighting as there was enough space and grass for all of them.

My horse ended up with a bad fracture of his radius. He spent 2 1/2 months at the vets, another 3 on normal box rest, and a very slow return to turnout. 8 months on I got back on for the 1st time at the weekend.

I put the accident down to bad luck and horses being horses - no point in blaming anyone in my case. However, I have now moved him to a small yard where he is currently out with a teeny shetland. When he is better I'll put him in with my other 2 ponies, but i'd never have him out in a herd again.
 
if a horse has plenty of space and food and water, its still going to interact with the other horses. that means playing which often results in lots of injuries let alone fighting. if theres more then one in a field. expect injuries. RIP peg :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top