millikins
Well-Known Member
me too. Poor horse
RIP Splitters Creek Bundy
- Thread starter palo1
- Start date
me too. Poor horse
Caledonia
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't hold your breath. Already EGB are trying to dismiss this as a storm in a teacup. After all, they have a lot to lose having just clutched greedily at the Meydan sponsorship money.
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
Just utterly heartbreaking.
I had no idea that so many of the riders were so new to riding and essentially don't have the experience or knowledge to be competing at anywhere near that level.
I was the 'tog at an FEI ride in Scotland several years ago. It was the only FEI ride I attended and the only endurance event that left me uncomfortable and I went to many. The winning team (and I can't remember if it was Qatar or UAE) consisted of several decent riders and one more who couldn't rise to the trot or stay on without holding the front of the saddle. He was literally bouncing on his poor mount for the entirety (either an 80km or 120). He was practically propped up by the other riders on the second half of the ride-I have no idea who he was.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Flippin' heck MOC, why aren't riders like that pulled over and stopped? Madness.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's dire. It's incredibly frustrating too as most endurance riders in the UK have a really high level of skill. Seeing people that cannot ride for toffee in any discipline is embarrassing. Before the meydan deal, egb dismissed the potential reputational car crash that it is likely to be, soon they will have to deal with it. In the meantime, how many more horses have to die in these desert races before it becomes too much of an embarrassment for the sheikhs?
PandorasBox
Member
PandorasBox
Member
It's not been an embarrassment to the sheikhs as thus far its all been unsubstantiated rumours. This time, they cant deny the photographic evidence.....
stencilface
High upon a hillside
I saw this post when it was written, but not knowing the sport or being able to find any info online I didn't comment.
But those pictures are heartbreaking and sickening. The idea of racing like that is barbaric too, no better (in fact worse really) than horses being flashed by travellers on the roads over here
But those pictures are heartbreaking and sickening. The idea of racing like that is barbaric too, no better (in fact worse really) than horses being flashed by travellers on the roads over here
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is dreadful and there are many other horses that have died following races of this type, and a whole evil host of other abusive practices that are known of. These include well publicised rumours of injecting snake venom into horses legs, twitching horses ears as they are ridden and inserting large quantities (kilos and kilos) of ice into horse's anuses in order to temporarily lower the heart race. This is in addition to the on-going horse-swapping that has been reported at the top level amongst certain nations. Vets, officials and spectators have commented on these, written letters to, resigned posts for and have practically begged the FEI to 'do something', yet still this goes on.
Although in this country Endurance is a minority sport I have been amazed and horrified that other disciplines have not picked up the wealth of incidences of abuse and cheating - including the horse-swapping scandals. After all, if it can be done in endurance it can be done in other disciplines and this, if nothing else, presents both ethical and health risks to others. The swapped horses, for example may not have qualified at the level they are competing at, have no proof of vaccination and have been god knows where whilst waiting for the swap. Not to mention the potentially dodgy manoeuvres needed to swap horses, manage the paperwork etc etc. The swapped endurance horse's FEI records simply changed names as and when was convenient, thus wiping previous their previous records...
I have wondered why other riders don't find all this very worrying - especially in the context of, for example WEG where potentially a ringer could present a real bio-security risk to all sorts of other horses.
I guess for EGB and for many many others, money really does talk.
Although in this country Endurance is a minority sport I have been amazed and horrified that other disciplines have not picked up the wealth of incidences of abuse and cheating - including the horse-swapping scandals. After all, if it can be done in endurance it can be done in other disciplines and this, if nothing else, presents both ethical and health risks to others. The swapped horses, for example may not have qualified at the level they are competing at, have no proof of vaccination and have been god knows where whilst waiting for the swap. Not to mention the potentially dodgy manoeuvres needed to swap horses, manage the paperwork etc etc. The swapped endurance horse's FEI records simply changed names as and when was convenient, thus wiping previous their previous records...
I have wondered why other riders don't find all this very worrying - especially in the context of, for example WEG where potentially a ringer could present a real bio-security risk to all sorts of other horses.
I guess for EGB and for many many others, money really does talk.
PandorasBox
Member
The AERC (American endurance society) released a public statement on their facebook page yesterday stating that they do not condone recent events .... I wish other federations like EGB would do the same.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Poor poor horse , best not sell them any .
Endurance will destroy itself if a grip is not got on this.
Endurance will destroy itself if a grip is not got on this.
OwnedbyJoe
Well-Known Member
I will NOT ride or vet FEI endurance... Many others feel the same. We have UAE riders here but so far have managed to avoid anything as appalling as this: I know all the vets I know would speak out if they witnessed any horse abuse, but I don't know what the powers that be would do about a clearly unfit rider..
The whole thing appalls me: some riders in Australia have a significant market in selling horses to group VII countries and our governing body has so far been alarmingly quiet on this issue...
The whole thing appalls me: some riders in Australia have a significant market in selling horses to group VII countries and our governing body has so far been alarmingly quiet on this issue...
Mitchyden
Well-Known Member
How do you think we feel over here in the UK?! Our society has basically been bought by the UAE which is why I've had to give up the sport I love - I cannot compete under a society that takes money from these people ��
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I don't do endurance , but I think if I where you that's where I would be to .
It's a very bad situation .
spookypony
Well-Known Member
SERC voted not to ask for any of the sponsorship money from EGB...I suspect Borders and Lothians, at least, will see an influx of visitors from England at their rides this summer.
I'm told by people with more experience than I have, that the biggest problem is having proof of misdoings at rides where the FEI has any jurisdiction. Not knowing enough about the inner workings of the FEI: how could they possibly police or even gather evidence in any country, other than at FEI rides? Is there a framework or set of standards to which member countries have to conform?
I'm told by people with more experience than I have, that the biggest problem is having proof of misdoings at rides where the FEI has any jurisdiction. Not knowing enough about the inner workings of the FEI: how could they possibly police or even gather evidence in any country, other than at FEI rides? Is there a framework or set of standards to which member countries have to conform?
PandorasBox
Member
National federations are free to set their own rules and regs for their races. Some countries follow closely the fei rules for they national comps (France for example) and some don't (America for example)
The UAE national races are run under their rules and regs.
Although the race in question where Bundy broke both his front legs was under national rules, I do feel that the fei should put pressure on their member national federations to improve their welfare rules to the same standard as would be expected at an fei race, as a MINIMUM general standard.
The UAE national races are run under their rules and regs.
Although the race in question where Bundy broke both his front legs was under national rules, I do feel that the fei should put pressure on their member national federations to improve their welfare rules to the same standard as would be expected at an fei race, as a MINIMUM general standard.
spookypony
Well-Known Member
How could they put the pressure on them, though? Have constitutional changes that make such a standard (which would be policed how?) a requirement for membership? Do the people concerned care enough about FEI membership to give way to such pressure? I'm not saying it shouldn't be done; I'm just asking how such a thing could practically be made to happen.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
If the number of horse deaths in national rides exceeds X number (or percentage of runners) FEI will investigate/you lose your FEI status 
PandorasBox
Member
But the deaths are hidden
So the fei won't be able to monitor it easily. They don't have the man power, and fei technical delegates are human beings and most human beings have a price....
Horses die every week out there. This is the first time someone has managed to get evidence of it happening.
There is no easy solution, but if enough people get involved by writing to their federations and/or to the fei and the federation concerned then it will show the outpouring of feelings that people have.
Just maybe this will at least make the fei have a 'meeting' about it.
The problem is not a new one, how long have group 7 been included in the fei endurance competitions? They haven't learned anything but they have taught others how to cheat and get away with it.....
There are good and bad competitors in every sport. But we need to be seen to be doing something about it in ours.
So the fei won't be able to monitor it easily. They don't have the man power, and fei technical delegates are human beings and most human beings have a price....
Horses die every week out there. This is the first time someone has managed to get evidence of it happening.
There is no easy solution, but if enough people get involved by writing to their federations and/or to the fei and the federation concerned then it will show the outpouring of feelings that people have.
Just maybe this will at least make the fei have a 'meeting' about it.
The problem is not a new one, how long have group 7 been included in the fei endurance competitions? They haven't learned anything but they have taught others how to cheat and get away with it.....
There are good and bad competitors in every sport. But we need to be seen to be doing something about it in ours.
palo1
Well-Known Member
The emirates equestrian federation has it's own rules and regs including article 142 which regards equine welfare. I don't have the exact wording to hand but effectively it identifies that equine welfare must be a priority during endurance races!! There is also some question over whether the participation of a number or riders/nations was 'legal' under FEI rules during this, and other races - that potentially could be a point of leverage although to be honest the FEI don't appear to have the necessary integrity to tackle the issues in the Group VII countries. Also, although rules are set to change this year, currently I think you still have to lodge a complaint about something amiss within 30 minutes of the event and in writing. This often simply isn't possible in a 50-100 mile race and this is the technicality that has resulted in riders 'getting off' charges of cheating (horse swapping) recently. I think a large part of the problem is the power and influence that these countries have over parts of the rest of the world: sport and politics are certainly not separate. Currently EGB is looking for people to organise the UAE sponsored rides in this country. It will be interesting to see who, if anyone is prepared to take that somewhat poisoned chalice on...
PandorasBox
Member
The 30 minute rule doesn't come into play in abuse/welfare issues
If the international horses/riders competing at the race have permission from their own national federation to do so, then the race was legal.
If the international horses/riders competing at the race have permission from their own national federation to do so, then the race was legal.
Centauress
Well-Known Member
Stuff Like This Should NEVER Be Hidden!!!!!
I Hope Dear Lad that Your Death Will Stop This Happening Again.....
I Hope Dear Lad that Your Death Will Stop This Happening Again.....
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's true but it's not clear if the non-UAE riders did, in fact have permission from their nf's. In any case, I guess that is not really the point - it might just be a way for the FEI to have a legitimate reason to get involved.
I don't think its ok for the FEI to just shrug their shoulders and effectively say 'Oh Dear!'.
PandorasBox
Member
I agree, it is definitely not ok for the fei to shrug and say not our problem.
It's everyone's problem. Horse welfare is supposed to be paramount in endurance, the fei should be moving heaven and earth to ensure that is so, both at international and national level with their member nations.
On a separate note:
Equestrian sport is at risk in the Olympics. We can't afford to have the position of eventing,show jumping and dressage compromised because endurance can't sort their act out. We can't afford to give the IOC any excuse to boot off equestrian sports from the Olympic list.
It's everyone's problem. Horse welfare is supposed to be paramount in endurance, the fei should be moving heaven and earth to ensure that is so, both at international and national level with their member nations.
On a separate note:
Equestrian sport is at risk in the Olympics. We can't afford to have the position of eventing,show jumping and dressage compromised because endurance can't sort their act out. We can't afford to give the IOC any excuse to boot off equestrian sports from the Olympic list.