Rising 4 year old, to turn away or to not turn away

[Pinkponyclub]

I have a lovely 4 year old who has been backed and riding under saddle for just under 6 weeks now. Very established ground work - excellent on long lines / lunge.

Done very little in the school but really struggling to get him cantering, he’s only picked up a couple of times for barely 2 strides and now I can’t get it at all. He literally runs and runs and gets super tense.

I really wanted to get him established in a 3 paces before having a break but am worried the more I push the more he’ll get a “thing” about it.

As I say he is perfect on lunge and very good off voice aids. Super relaxed under saddle in walk and trot. Doesn’t do more than 3/4 sessions under saddle a week for 15 mins tops.

Saddle checked and fitted when we started. Going to get a physio out in case he’s feeling sore but to me feels like he’s worried about it.

I would add, I don’t have any hacking where I can take him for a canter in open at the moment as ground rock hard but we do have a large sand school.

I am inclined to let him have a few weeks to reflect but others say I should try and get him going first, just looking for some opinions on if anyone’s had anything similar.

He is a sensitive warmblood type, and fairly well muscled for his age not a super scrawny 4 year old.

 

[TheMule]

My 4yr olds rarely canter in an arena. You'd be better off hiring a gallops or boxing up to go hacking somewhere and establishing it there

 

[Pinkponyclub]

My 4yr olds rarely canter in an arena. You'd be better off hiring a gallops or boxing up to go hacking somewhere and establishing it there

I did think about this but was slightly worried about my increased chance of death although I suppose at least with a gallops he could only bugger off so far and it’s contained !

 

[TheMule]

I did think about this but was slightly worried about my increased chance of death although I suppose at least with a gallops he could only bugger off so far and it’s contained !

They don’t have a clue the first time they go and if you keep it all super relaxed they never learn that gallops are for anything more than a nice straight amble!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Get him alongside a good steady cob on a slight incline on grass, that is how my babies had their first canters. Just a few steps and back to trot with a lead horse that will go steady. Your average 20x40 is tiny for a big young horse and even a 20x60 still has the dreaded corners to motorbike round.

 

[Pinkponyclub]

Get him alongside a good steady cob on a slight incline on grass, that is how my babies had their first canters. Just a few steps and back to trot with a lead horse that will go steady. Your average 20x40 is tiny for a big young horse and even a 20x60 still has the dreaded corners to motorbike round.

Sadly we don’t have any steady cobs at my yard but we do have a sensible-ish horse we can try with, true, I do feel like by the time we get up a bit of speed ready to canter the corner comes up which doesn’t help !

 

[maya2008]

Straight after backing I hack for 4-6 months, with the odd week off here and there if life gets in the way/they seem a little tired/weather. Building muscle and experience slowly and carefully in straight lines is the best. Canter is best done in straight lines following another horse.

 

[ihatework]

If he is reasonably strong in his body I wouldn’t give him a break just yet, I’d want a month or so hacking under his belt.
First canters under saddle definitely stage managed out hacking!

 

[Pinkponyclub]

Thank you all, will give getting him out somewhere we can have a canter in the open with a buddy a go!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Thank you all, will give getting him out somewhere we can have a canter in the open with a buddy a go!

Neck strap, parachute, hip flask and sit up.

 

[LEC]

I know this sounds weird but I actually ended up using small bounces so just two cavaletti essentially to help a horse with canter who was so weak and really struggled in the arena. Trot in and canter out. It just helps organise them and then I asked for a few strides of canter and then back to trot. Do very similar with x racers who have a similar issues.

 

[Pinkponyclub]

Neck strap, parachute, hip flask and sit up.

The hip flask is a good shout, I really don’t bounce anymore

 

[Barton Bounty]

I never teach canter in a school, always out in the open on a nice stretch its a lot for them

 

[BBP]

Sadly we don’t have any steady cobs at my yard but we do have a sensible-ish horse we can try with, true, I do feel like by the time we get up a bit of speed ready to canter the corner comes up which doesn’t help !

So there is a little red flag here, where you mention getting up a bit of speed ready to canter. I’m not as experienced a rider as a lot of people here but have been doing a lot of learning from the ground during the gap between my old horse returning and my young ones being ready to back, and I’ve learned just how important balance is for any horse to be able to canter with ease. That means vertical balance, so is he leaning in or out and loading one shoulder, making it hard to step under and lift into canter. Found a link to sort of explain.

Vertical Imbalance in Horses | Natural Asymmetry Explained

Understand vertical imbalance in your horse. See how it hinders your horse’s movement, and how Straightness Training can restore true balance.

www.straightnesstraining.com

It means horizontal balance, so is he loading more weight on to the front end and collapsing in his thoracic sling.

Horizontal Imbalance in Horses | Understanding Natural Asymmetry

Learn what horizontal imbalance is, how it shows in your horse, and how Straightness Training helps correct it for balance and longevity.

www.straightnesstraining.com

It also depends on their natural bend tendency.

It can help to view the horse from the side, front and back untacked to check for any postural issues that might impact his ability to pick up canter easily. Is he narrow in the chest, dropped down in the thoracic sling, camped under, crooked, is the balance of his muscle correct or is he overdeveloped along the underline/underdeveloped over the top line . All those things you can address with groundwork and walk work, to help strengthen him and prepare him for ridden canter work.

So for me rather than turning away, if look at that stuff and think about if I have done all the right groundwork to make it as easy as possible for him, and then as others have said, look to ask out in a straight line to start with.

 

[Pinkponyclub]

So there is a little red flag here, where you mention getting up a bit of speed ready to canter. I’m not as experienced a rider as a lot of people here but have been doing a lot of learning from the ground during the gap between my old horse returning and my young ones being ready to back, and I’ve learned just how important balance is for any horse to be able to canter with ease. That means vertical balance, so is he leaning in or out and loading one shoulder, making it hard to step under and lift into canter. Found a link to sort of explain.

Vertical Imbalance in Horses | Natural Asymmetry Explained

Understand vertical imbalance in your horse. See how it hinders your horse’s movement, and how Straightness Training can restore true balance.

www.straightnesstraining.com

It means horizontal balance, so is he loading more weight on to the front end and collapsing in his thoracic sling.

Horizontal Imbalance in Horses | Understanding Natural Asymmetry

Learn what horizontal imbalance is, how it shows in your horse, and how Straightness Training helps correct it for balance and longevity.

www.straightnesstraining.com

It also depends on their natural bend tendency.

It can help to view the horse from the side, front and back untacked to check for any postural issues that might impact his ability to pick up canter easily. Is he narrow in the chest, dropped down in the thoracic sling, camped under, crooked, is the balance of his muscle correct or is he overdeveloped along the underline/underdeveloped over the top line . All those things you can address with groundwork and walk work, to help strengthen him and prepare him for ridden canter work.

So for me rather than turning away, if look at that stuff and think about if I have done all the right groundwork to make it as easy as possible for him, and then as others have said, look to ask out in a straight line to start with.

Thank you, when I say pick up speed I’ve always been taught to let the horse run into canter at this stage rather than try and go from a collected trot and put a load of pressure on to canter (it’s not my first horse I’ve backed I think I’ve just been lucky the last few have just “got it”!)

He definitely is a little bum high so definitely loading onto front end and not stepping through, but I’m only asking for a few steps of canter I’m not expecting him to collect up into it if that makes sense ?

I am still putting in lots of groundwork and we do lots of poles and bending on the long lines to help get him stronger, he has a slight left side weakness which is normal at this age but he otherwise has great conformation and as I say, for a 4 year old, looks pretty well although I will be sure to have a good look at him and be super critical on where we can improve !

 

[BBP]

Thank you, when I say pick up speed I’ve always been taught to let the horse run into canter at this stage rather than try and go from a collected trot and put a load of pressure on to canter (it’s not my first horse I’ve backed I think I’ve just been lucky the last few have just “got it”!)

He definitely is a little bum high so definitely loading onto front end and not stepping through, but I’m only asking for a few steps of canter I’m not expecting him to collect up into it if that makes sense ?

I am still putting in lots of groundwork and we do lots of poles and bending on the long lines to help get him stronger, he has a slight left side weakness which is normal at this age but he otherwise has great conformation and as I say, for a 4 year old, looks pretty well although I will be sure to have a good look at him and be super critical on where we can improve !

Oh yes sorry, I didn’t think you were trying to collect him or rush him, but the more I’ve learned, the more getting the biomechanics and balance right before you ask, the transition should then be as easy as possible for them, even for the few strides you want. So it’s not about collection, it’s about balance, and them running forwards automatically throws them off their horizontal and vertical balance. My instructor feels strongly that the allowing them to run into the canter (which like you is always what I was taught, that or over a pole) actually is less helpful than getting the biomechanics right and going slower, not faster.

 

[maya2008]

Oh yes sorry, I didn’t think you were trying to collect him or rush him, but the more I’ve learned, the more getting the biomechanics and balance right before you ask, the transition should then be as easy as possible for them, even for the few strides you want. So it’s not about collection, it’s about balance, and them running forwards automatically throws them off their horizontal and vertical balance. My instructor feels strongly that the allowing them to run into the canter (which like you is always what I was taught, that or over a pole) actually is less helpful than getting the biomechanics right and going slower, not faster.

Groundwork does not replicate the stresses and weight of a rider and cannot build sufficient muscle without that weight. It can help, it can teach commands, but nothing replaces that first canter with the rider on. You need to set that up to succeed - in a straight line up a hill. The hill stops them falling on their forehand too much and the straight line gives them a chance to find their balance. Letting them drop into it behind another horse has no bearing whatsoever on their future cantering habits or athletic ability. You’re just setting them up to succeed at that moment in time. Cantering out hacking is fun and soon they leap into it rather than falling into it, given decent riding that sets them up to succeed. Their muscles grow and build and they begin to find things easier. When you take them back into the arena, they are confident cantering with a rider and the corners are simply one thing to work on.

Asking a horse to simultaneously figure out how to balance themselves with a rider on in canter AND cope with the constant changes from corner to straight to corner in an arena is not setting them up to succeed. Some can do it, but it’s more stressful than it needs to be. A constant circle (lunge or round pen) is kinder if hacking is not an option, as the bend is constant and that bend also helps prevent falling on the forehand.

 

[Pinkponyclub]

Groundwork does not replicate the stresses and weight of a rider and cannot build sufficient muscle without that weight. It can help, it can teach commands, but nothing replaces that first canter with the rider on. You need to set that up to succeed - in a straight line up a hill. The hill stops them falling on their forehand too much and the straight line gives them a chance to find their balance. Letting them drop into it behind another horse has no bearing whatsoever on their future cantering habits or athletic ability. You’re just setting them up to succeed at that moment in time. Cantering out hacking is fun and soon they leap into it rather than falling into it, given decent riding that sets them up to succeed. Their muscles grow and build and they begin to find things easier. When you take them back into the arena, they are confident cantering with a rider and the corners are simply one thing to work on.

Asking a horse to simultaneously figure out how to balance themselves with a rider on in canter AND cope with the constant changes from corner to straight to corner in an arena is not setting them up to succeed. Some can do it, but it’s more stressful than it needs to be. A constant circle (lunge or round pen) is kinder if hacking is not an option, as the bend is constant and that bend also helps prevent falling on the forehand.

We are going out later today to give it a go having to go somewhere in the box that has a steady incline, bit worried about having to box out for it as first trip from home and first canter all at once seems scary (for me ) but oh sh** strap at the ready and hope our sensible lead horse does just that. He’s not typically sharp or silly so fingers crossed for a successful and confident trip - will feed back … if I live to tell the tale

 

[BBP]

Groundwork does not replicate the stresses and weight of a rider and cannot build sufficient muscle without that weight. It can help, it can teach commands, but nothing replaces that first canter with the rider on. You need to set that up to succeed - in a straight line up a hill. The hill stops them falling on their forehand too much and the straight line gives them a chance to find their balance. Letting them drop into it behind another horse has no bearing whatsoever on their future cantering habits or athletic ability. You’re just setting them up to succeed at that moment in time. Cantering out hacking is fun and soon they leap into it rather than falling into it, given decent riding that sets them up to succeed. Their muscles grow and build and they begin to find things easier. When you take them back into the arena, they are confident cantering with a rider and the corners are simply one thing to work on.

Asking a horse to simultaneously figure out how to balance themselves with a rider on in canter AND cope with the constant changes from corner to straight to corner in an arena is not setting them up to succeed. Some can do it, but it’s more stressful than it needs to be. A constant circle (lunge or round pen) is kinder if hacking is not an option, as the bend is constant and that bend also helps prevent falling on the forehand.

Nowhere in my post did I say canter them in an arena, or not to ride them? Just to work on balance and then ask out hacking in a straight line. I’ll piss off out of this forum again.

 

[AppyLover1996]

We are going out later today to give it a go having to go somewhere in the box that has a steady incline, bit worried about having to box out for it as first trip from home and first canter all at once seems scary (for me ) but oh sh** strap at the ready and hope our sensible lead horse does just that. He’s not typically sharp or silly so fingers crossed for a successful and confident trip - will feed back … if I live to tell the tale

Not got much advice apart from have a steady hold on your oh sh** strap and enjoy the moment x

 

[Glitter is Fun]

I have a lovely 4 year old who has been backed and riding under saddle for just under 6 weeks now. Very established ground work - excellent on long lines / lunge.

Done very little in the school but really struggling to get him cantering, he’s only picked up a couple of times for barely 2 strides and now I can’t get it at all. He literally runs and runs and gets super tense.

I really wanted to get him established in a 3 paces before having a break but am worried the more I push the more he’ll get a “thing” about it.

As I say he is perfect on lunge and very good off voice aids. Super relaxed under saddle in walk and trot. Doesn’t do more than 3/4 sessions under saddle a week for 15 mins tops.

Saddle checked and fitted when we started. Going to get a physio out in case he’s feeling sore but to me feels like he’s worried about it.

I would add, I don’t have any hacking where I can take him for a canter in open at the moment as ground rock hard but we do have a large sand school.

I am inclined to let him have a few weeks to reflect but others say I should try and get him going first, just looking for some opinions on if anyone’s had anything similar.

He is a sensitive warmblood type, and fairly well muscled for his age not a super scrawny 4 year old.

If he were mine* he wouldn't see a school again now for a year but I wouldn't turn him away either. I'd hack him all summer & turn away in October/November.

If the ground is hard just do it all slowly, preferably up & down hills and in a wide variety of company & situations. It's really boring! Time was, if you were rich enough you used to employ someone called a "nagsman" to do it for you, that's how boring but important it is!



*In the interests of full disclosure I should say that age has reduced me to the ranks of those who talk about youngsters but the whole world does not now contain enough neck straps, double gins and Imodium to get me on one.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

My boy as a four year old didn’t canter in an arena. He cantered out hacks. He was still very unbalanced at 5 due to being so bum high and still growing so much so circles and schooling wasn’t something we took too seriously. It’s only this last year (he turned 7 last month) that his canter has been strong enough to maintain smaller circles and we have started asking for more collections from him

He did get 6months in the field due to my spinal injury. Didn’t do him any harm. Picked him up when I could do so and reminded him of what we had already done then cracked on. He then had 6months off in his 5th year due to him having concussion lami and again he just picked back up and on we went.

I don’t think having the time off didn’t him any harm at all.

 

[Pinkponyclub]

If he were mine* he wouldn't see a school again now for a year but I wouldn't turn him away either. I'd hack him all summer & turn away in October/November.

If the ground is hard just do it all slowly, preferably up & down hills and in a wide variety of company & situations. It's really boring! Time was, if you were rich enough you used to employ someone called a "nagsman" to do it for you, that's how boring but important it is!



*In the interests of full disclosure I should say that age has reduced me to the ranks of those who talk about youngsters but the whole world does not now contain enough neck straps, double gins and Imodium to get me on one.

Imodium is a good idea I’ll pop a couple of those now as well as the gin

 

[Glitter is Fun]

Hope you got on OK?

 

[Pinkponyclub]

Forgot to update, he was fab. A little unsure first transition but just went up and down and few times and was picking it up quickly. Didn’t want to do too much but definitely worked so will keep doing that every now and then for now ! Thanks all for advice

 

[Glitter is Fun]

Forgot to update, he was fab. A little unsure first transition but just went up and down and few times and was picking it up quickly. Didn’t want to do too much but definitely worked so will keep doing that every now and then for now ! Thanks all for advice

Thank you. Glad it worked out.

(Sorry- asked for an update & then went out for the day & didn't look again. )