Rising trot - seat, leg aids and diagonals???

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Ginn

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Have been musing away to myself tonight and came up with a couple of questions that I'd like your views on please...

  • What makes the correct diagonal the correct diagonal? Is it to do with the riders weight, tradition or something else?
  • Leg aids when trotting... do you apply the aid during the sit? the rise? both?

I can't help but wonder whether we rise on a certain diagonal because we are told it is correct when actually there may be many circumstances when going on the "wrong" diagonal may infact be more correct in terms of helping and educating a horse.... That said I have a tendency to totally over analyse the most insignificant of things and it is quite possible this is something I am totally over thinking!
 
I think the only key - which I struggle with is to apply a leg aid as the horses hind leg is coming off the ground.
 
Why the outside leg if you don't mind me asking? I only ask as I was always taught the opposite (assuming no correction is being made) in that you want to ask the inside hind to step under and through....
 
Re: diagonals, I often find the horse feels quite unbalanced if I'm on the wrong one although I suppose that may be because they are as used to it as I am! However, being on the "correct" diagonal means that your weight is taken by the inside hind leg, which seems right.

I also struggle with timing the leg aid -for years I was told to apply the inside leg when I sit, however the hind leg comes off the ground (as per Siennamum's comment) when you start your rise if you're on the correct diagonal. I'm now trying to re-educate myself and it's very hard to rise and apply the leg at the same time.

If I'm wrong on the timing, I'd love someone to correct me so I can go back to squeezing as I sit ;)
 
I'm don't mean a specific leg, just that if you are trying to affect the horse, it's pointless using your leg when the corresponding horses leg is anchored to the ground. I would like to try and work out how that relates to rising & diagonals, but it's a bit late. Shall have to see how it works tomorrow when I ride.
 
I find that when im on the wrong diagonal it feels 'wrong'. Look down and you should be sitting when the outside shoulder is toward you, then sit an extra stride when you change.

Leg aids should be applied in sit (we were doing ages of this today :d) as it can unbalance the rider and is easier on the horse as you urge with the strides.
 
Jiffy thanks

SM - this is exactly my thinking - you should apply a leg aid to achieve a certain outcome so the 'by the book' way of doing things isn't always going to be correct... I have to confess that if I make a correction then I tend to go sitting and stay there until I am happy as I find this a more affective and clear application of the aids. Therefore the question of diagonals is being debated in my little head (which isn't always a good thing!)
 
I just apply the aid when it's needed, I've never really thought about whether I'm rising or sitting. Sometimes when I'm teaching people new to riding it's easier to ecnourage them to use their legs in the 'sit' part as they sturggle to maintain balance kicking (and it has to be kicking on some school horses!) and rising - but later on I'll expect them to be able to be in a balance in a light forwards seat and be able to apply the leg/ride transitions etc - after which they should be fine applying the leg whether they're rising or sitting?
 
ThePinkPony said:
I find that when im on the wrong diagonal it feels 'wrong'. Look down and you should be sitting when the outside shoulder is toward you, then sit an extra stride when you change.
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but does it feel wrong because it is not familiar? If its not familiar then you are unlikely to be as balanced and therefore more likely to unbalance the horse likely. This then begs the question of should we become familiar riding on both correct and incorrect diagonals. A simple analogy - many people would state that mounting from the wrong side feels wrong but unless you are a solider carrying a sword then there is infact nothing wrong with it and infact is good practice to mount equally from both sides

Leg aids should be applied in sit (we were doing ages of this today :d) as it can unbalance the rider and is easier on the horse as you urge with the strides.
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But which leg are you activating through the leg aid? If its not the leg you need to activate then you will need to adjust accordingly. For example my mare will prefer to swing her quarters right so on a right turn I need to apply my inside leg behind the girth to ask her to shift her backside to the outside track while the inside leg is stepping through (I may also have to make a correction with my outside leg to keep tabs on the shoulder, sometimes asking for shoulder in). On the left leg I quite often need very similar aids yet in theory, being correct, I will have changed my diagonal. In reality I stay sitting more often then not and try to use my seat as a primary aid backed up by the leg - either way I ride what I feel is required rather than what is correct as in such situations diagonals are low down on the priority list and there are situations where going on the wrong diagonal is actually benificial...

If the horse is considerably unbalanced by the rider being on the incorrect diagonal then I might question whether this is something to be addressed too??

As I said, musings not a critism, just trying to get my head to unravel the mess it has got its little self into :rolleyes:
 
there technically isn't a correct diagonal but in the UK we are in the majority taught to sit when the outside fore is beneath us. On the continent it is common to ride on the 'incorrect' diagonal.

I think it has become the 'correct' diagonal over here as you are less likely to unbalance the horse when sitting to the outside fore.

I find sitting to the inside fore can be beneficial at times especially for some lateral work and really engaging the inside hind.
 
Personally, if the horse is correctly balanced then it doesn't matter what diagonal you are on. For ex; which diagonal is correct on a hack?! I suppose the most natural one would be left (have I got this right for the UK?! ), but does it matter as in theory a horse should be balanced and be able to cope on either diagonal.

Whilst we are backing the youngsters it is natural to go on the 'correct diagonal', to help them balance, as they are not 100% sure about where to put their feet. However we also rise (later on in the training) on the wrong diagonal to ensure they don't get accostumed to it.

The 'correct diagonal' is because we have all been taught that it is correct, but if we were told the other one was the correct then we would feel more comfortable with that one :p !! I am probably not helping at all...But I honestly don't think, if a rider and horse are both balanced, it matters which diagonal you are on.


As for the leg aids; alternate legs with whichever one is coming off the ground, ready for the next step to either create more impulsion or ask for more upwards lift. Ideally you should be able to do it in both sitting and rising trot.
 
I was told that the continent rides on the other diagonal hence its not penalised if you are on the wrong diagonal in dressage.

I think we have an obsession in this country about the right diagonal. I am comfortable on either as work really hard to make sure I ride on both out hacking.
 
LEC said:
I was told that the continent rides on the other diagonal hence its not penalised if you are on the wrong diagonal in dressage.
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Here in France it is the same diagonal as in the UK, but they don't seem to worry too much about being on the 'correct' diagonal. You don't hear the RI's telling the kids to trot on the correct diagonal. It makes me feel as though it doesn't matter to them too much !!
 
As I understand it .. the "correct" diagonal means you are sitting when the outside hind is pushing off.. which is the strike off leg for canter.. so your aid for canter is clearer..

controversially you can strengthen a weaker diagonal by riding on it even tho it is the "incorrect" diagonal
 
When you sit on the ooutside diagonal the inside hind leg is about to move forward, as it's easier to use your legs when sitting you can then influence the inside hind leg to take a better step.

There answered both in one :D

LEC - you are never marked on which diagonal you are on so no need to worry!
 
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