Road hacking & no shoes

[GemG]

OP sounds like you're doing well.

Our boy has never been shod, now 22 years old and has done a mixture of everything throughout his life. Horses for courses, I like to believe most can go BF, but it All depends on the horse, the work and your management.

I have seen myself in the past rubbing cornucresin into the coronet band daily, to aid decent growth. I have no idea if this worked or not! Maybe just the 'massage' action Helped circulation, I don't know. I haven't used supplements myself, but have considered them.

I have looked at hoof boots for years too, but never took the plunge, my main reason being to help on stones/ gravel bits. But I never actually bought any in the end up.

So, I think I have been lucky in that our horse has good feet anyway.

Build up work according to growth. Work in a sand school surface will help them look nice.

 

[only_me]

to answer OP's original question I suspect that an hour a day on the roads, 7 days a week for the next month and the feet will wear down badly. Some horses at this stage may be able to cope especially if the roads are smooth and non abrasive. However IMHO it will take a fair while to transition a horse to work up to 7 hours road work on more abrasive tarmac. it can take some feet quite a while to get the message that they have to put out sufficient quality growth to keep up with wear.

OP, rather than wear the feet too much, which may make it difficult for the farrier or the horse footsore, could you not shoe a little earlier?

Thank you he was happy today walking for an hour, a bit shorter going down hills but a lot better from when we started out. He has good feet normally, and after 2 weeks of having no shoes the nail holes have grown out lol. I'm trying to get the farrier earlier, having no luck in contacting him so far. He's v busy but I can wait as he's one of the best here & teaches a lot as well.

Depends what the op is doing for the hour. As the horse has been off work I would have assumed it was walking. Walking does not wear the feet anywhere as much as faster paces.
No one can say whether it will or it will not be too much for the feet since no one is in possession of a crystal ball. People can only share their own experiences. So SusieT I am unsure what you expect people to say.
My cob would have been fine doing an hour a day from the moment her shoes came off. It was only when she was on stoney surfaces 24/7 I ran into a problem and even then it was only for a few weeks.
No foot is made equal so it will be a case of try it and see.

He is indeed only walking at the minute I don't like trotting on roads in general, I'll trot up the occasional hill but usually only when in proper work. I did trot him for a couple of strides out hacking today to check was sound & he is so I'm happy! I prefer to go straight out hacking when coming into work rather than start off in an arena, especially after injury

I was referring to the point about hooves not wearing out actually. I don't know you and am intelligent enough not to make a decision about someone I don't know. I suggest you take a breath!

I take many breaths, in fact normally around 20,000 a day it wasn't clear which point of her post you were referring to, which is why I asked if you agreed with her. if you aren't astounded at my lack of knowledge then my bonkers reply doesn't apply to you!

 

[only_me]

I have seen myself in the past rubbing cornucresin into the coronet band daily, to aid decent growth. I have no idea if this worked or not! Maybe just the 'massage' action Helped circulation, I don't know. I haven't used supplements myself, but have considered them.

I have looked at hoof boots for years too, but never took the plunge, my main reason being to help on stones/ gravel bits. But I never actually bought any in the end up.
So, I think I have been lucky in that our horse has good feet anyway.
Build up work according to growth. Work in a sand school surface will help them look nice.

I had considered cornuecresin, I have a lot & toothbrush ready to go lol. I wasn't sure whether to use it or not though as don't want to disturb the foot if not needed. I'd be happy to give him a hoof supplement but again because they take a while to work I'm not sure it would help him.

 

[Fairynuff]

I am astounded, OP has been on here for years, and has not realised that barefoot is the way forward, and as for the hooves "wearing out" ................ no they dont, provided the horse is managed properly there will be no need to shoe, and its much safer on the road.

I'm astounded by your reply! Such snobbery. Not everyone reads or follows barefoot pages or threads so why , when someone asks a very pertinent question, do you feel the need to reply in such an off manner?

 

[Fairynuff]

Onlyme, just keep on doing what you're doing. Your horse will tell you quick enough if he's becoming footsore.

 

[ycbm]

OP, and anyone else, let the horse tell you if his feet are getting too short. Find the toughest piece of ground that your horse will manage right now. Every time you take him out, test him on that piece of ground. On the day that he feels that ground, he needs shoes, boots, or a reduction in mileage (or less food).

No foot is too short that can stonk across stones lying on concrete or tarmac, no matter what your foot care specialist tells you! The expert is the horse

 

[only_me]

Thanks fairynuff

I've just taken photos of his feet if anyone wants to see & if it helps. Don't have his off fore though.

This is near hind (lots of cuts/scrapes/knocks & swelling on this leg originally)

The off hind - the worst damaged one, big hole in thigh etc.

And the near fore, which Had nasty deep cut on cannon bone

 

[ycbm]

I had considered cornuecresin, I have a lot & toothbrush ready to go lol. I wasn't sure whether to use it or not though as don't want to disturb the foot if not needed. I'd be happy to give him a hoof supplement but again because they take a while to work I'm not sure it would help him.

Grandmother and eggs maybe -

Cornucresin is a blister. A mild irritant. It works by bringing more blood to the coronet band, which causes faster hoof growth. It does work but personally I wouldn't scrub it on with a toothbrush unless you are sure your horse is thick skinned. I do use it, but to make hair grow on bald patches these days rather than on feet

 

[MagicMelon]

Mine is barefoot and I hack her regularly on the road and up dirt tracks (which include hardcored bits). Never had any problems and I dont feed her anything specialist feed wise.

 

[Auslander]

OP - you just do what feels right for you/your horse!
I keep Alf unshod as much as possible, and he copes fine during the winter, with limited hacking, and muddy bridleways. I like giving his feet a break from shoes, and absolutely see the benefits to being unshod permanently. However, he struggles when the ground is rock hard and stony, which it is on all the bridleways round here in the summer, so I usually shoe him for a few months each year ( he will NOT wear hoofboots!) Unshod, he is miserable out hacking - he trudges at snails pace, ignoring his surroundings, and will stop, turn round and go home if I let him. As soon as he has a pair of fronts on, he bounces along, spooks madly at silly stuff, and is very jolly indeed. I'm sure that I COULD get him to a point where he is comfortable over any ground, but he's 19 years old, has had more than his fair share of pain, and is enjoying a happy semi-retirement. All I want is for him to be happy and enjoy his work - so although I'd like to keep his shoes off permanently, it's not going to happen.

 

[GemG]

OP - you just do what feels right for you/your horse!
I keep Alf unshod as much as possible, and he copes fine during the winter, with limited hacking, and muddy bridleways. I like giving his feet a break from shoes, and absolutely see the benefits to being unshod permanently. However, he struggles when the ground is rock hard and stony, which it is on all the bridleways round here in the summer, so I usually shoe him for a few months each year ( he will NOT wear hoofboots!) Unshod, he is miserable out hacking - he trudges at snails pace, ignoring his surroundings, and will stop, turn round and go home if I let him. As soon as he has a pair of fronts on, he bounces along, spooks madly at silly stuff, and is very jolly indeed. I'm sure that I COULD get him to a point where he is comfortable over any ground, but he's 19 years old, has had more than his fair share of pain, and is enjoying a happy semi-retirement. All I want is for him to be happy and enjoy his work - so although I'd like to keep his shoes off permanently, it's not going to happen.

Sensible !

 

[Regandal]

There's one thing that perplexes me. How can a horse go from being 'footy' without shoes to 100% sound the minute they go on? It's not as if shoes raise the feet above all stones, they must still stand on some.
Does anyone know the degree of reduction in bloodflow to the feet in a shod horse? I know from personal observation that cold shod feet warmed within 10 minutes of the shoes being removed, as predicted by the farrier removing them. Do shod horses have a degree of numbness affecting their feet? Quite chilling to think they do (pardon the pun!)

 

[Firefly9410]

There's one thing that perplexes me. How can a horse go from being 'footy' without shoes to 100% sound the minute they go on? It's not as if shoes raise the feet above all stones, they must still stand on some.
Does anyone know the degree of reduction in bloodflow to the feet in a shod horse? I know from personal observation that cold shod feet warmed within 10 minutes of the shoes being removed, as predicted by the farrier removing them. Do shod horses have a degree of numbness affecting their feet? Quite chilling to think they do (pardon the pun!)

I believe you are right. A friend said her 5yr old shod for the first time went stomping about like a toddler who is not 100% sure where their feet are and has not quite nailed the walking thing yet. She shod to go drag hunting and jump five foot hedges. Her horse was already in work and had good balance so it was not that.

 

[NZJenny]

I endurance rode the gelding in my avatar barefoot for years - we never ran out of hoof. Amazing how fast they grow to keep up with the wear.

Firefly9410 - your friend's experience is the same as mine. Have recently shod a young horse who had previously been barefoot. She felt "clompy" the first couple of times I rode her and she was definitely a bit clutzy. However she seems to have adjusted very well and nearing the end of our second cycle all is good.

I'm the same as Regandal - I would love to know the answer to that question. However I think until farriers and trimmers stop seeing each other as the "dark side" as they do here, and maybe start comparing notes and working together, we could be waiting awhile.

 

[ester]

yup that is the general understanding re numbing effect.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I'm astounded by your reply! Such snobbery. Not everyone reads or follows barefoot pages or threads so why , when someone asks a very pertinent question, do you feel the need to reply in such an off manner?

Yes, I should apologise to OP, I was just putting my immediate reaction down because I know OP is an experienced horsewoman, and I was surprised [would have been a much better word]. The reason for my surprise was the phrase "wearing the hooves down" ............ , which is almost a mantra in certain circles.
I sold a horse to a big noise in the BHS, he told me he would not need the minerals [on offer at cost less a lot] as the farrier would put shoes on ............... he had not been shod for years, the years since I learned on this forum that shoes were not essential.

 

[ycbm]

I believe you are right. A friend said her 5yr old shod for the first time went stomping about like a toddler who is not 100% sure where their feet are and has not quite nailed the walking thing yet. She shod to go drag hunting and jump five foot hedges. Her horse was already in work and had good balance so it was not that.

Why did she shoe to jump five foot hedges? I used to do them barefoot all the time, sometimes six foot instead, and once a seven (still dream about that one).

 

[ycbm]

yup that is the general understanding re numbing effect.

I think you can see the numbing effect in two ways. One is that a horse with half inch thick shoes on often appears not to feel treading on a one inch thick stone. Two is that when you take off a horse's shoes, it's not uncommon for it to walk off as if there is no problem, only for things to appear to 'come alive' several days or a couple of weeks later, and it be quite sore when it has done nothing that should make it sore.

The increase in blood supply can be seen from growth speed. A typical barefoot hoof will grow from coronet to ground in 18 - 24 weeks, a speed I've never seen matched in a shod foot.

My friend's vet insisted her horse (barefoot rehab) could not possibly have grown the amount of foot she said he had. She was forced to show him photographic proof, then he went quiet!

 

[GemG]

OP your photos show decent looking feet from what I can see. In fact, some would be envious lol.

Our BF boy is still needing a good trim every 8-10 weeks just now - he has that much growth despite being in light work (inc hacks/road and sand school). Farrier says most are growing well now there out on summer grass.

 

[fatpiggy]

I rode a native pony that never had shoes on. We would hack all over the place along the lanes, to shows and back (miles!!), and did all the usual grass-exercise as well. His little feet were as hard as nails. My own mare needed shoes as she had dropped heels, although in the last couple of years I retired her, took her shoes off and just tidied her with a rasp myself. Her feet grew like grass in the summer months - a combination of more nutrition in the grass and more exercise (going to shows) meant more blood flow. I would say build up the road work in the same way as you would fitness and feed accordingly in the same way. Cornucrescine is good stuff, I used to apply it with my finger, and a weekly paint all over with Keratex will help prevent damage. A friend's pony had long term seedy toe due to past laminitis and when the farrier did her, she would have effectively a hole at the toe due to the horn being so soft. I suggest she used Keratex on it and the next time she was shod the hoof looked completely normal and the softness was totally gone. Don't forget that horses in the wild cover far more ground than ridden ones, over hard and soft surfaces, smooth and rocky. Their food is hardly that nutritious but their hooves are just fine.

 

[nikkimariet]

I am astounded, OP has been on here for years, and has not realised that barefoot is the way forward, and as for the hooves "wearing out" ................ no they dont, provided the horse is managed properly there will be no need to shoe, and its much safer on the road.

How rude!!!

OP, nothing more to add to the sensible and far less rude replies of other posters

Figgy does 1-2 hours out but no more as not used to it.

 

[Merrymoles]

OP - you just do what feels right for you/your horse!
I keep Alf unshod as much as possible, and he copes fine during the winter, with limited hacking, and muddy bridleways. I like giving his feet a break from shoes, and absolutely see the benefits to being unshod permanently. However, he struggles when the ground is rock hard and stony, which it is on all the bridleways round here in the summer, so I usually shoe him for a few months each year ( he will NOT wear hoofboots!) Unshod, he is miserable out hacking - he trudges at snails pace, ignoring his surroundings, and will stop, turn round and go home if I let him. As soon as he has a pair of fronts on, he bounces along, spooks madly at silly stuff, and is very jolly indeed. I'm sure that I COULD get him to a point where he is comfortable over any ground, but he's 19 years old, has had more than his fair share of pain, and is enjoying a happy semi-retirement. All I want is for him to be happy and enjoy his work - so although I'd like to keep his shoes off permanently, it's not going to happen.

This is my experience as well - would happily keep my lad unshod if we rode only on the road and soft ground but he is much more comfortable with fronts on for our stony tracks, particularly when they have just been patched. His back feet grow very well and we never get excessive wear, despite hacking six days a week at this time of year. Some times all four come off in the winter if I know we are not going to be doing more than roads because of the weather but he is happier with fronts on most of the time, but only for the tracks.

 

[DD]

I ride my horses without shoes on tarmac stones grit every surface. no problems. they dont do huge amounts of work around 4 to 6 hours hacking per week, sometimes going out twice a week for longer rides or more often shorter rides. my farrier has told me they dont need shoes . its taken a while to get here but am so glad I persevered, they have great feet and its a lot cheaper for me too!

 

[epemberton94]

I hacked my boy on roads everyday without shoes for years. If they get too worn down he'll soon let you know about it! Sounds like you'll probably be fine though, you could always text your farrier if you are unsure.

 

[Rowreach]

Why is it rather than answer the question there has been a massive defensive reaction from barefoot?

It's threads like these that made me disappear for a couple of years.

OP why didn't you get shoes back on Billy when you brought him back into work, just out of interest? Oh, and great news that he IS back in work btw

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I can hack my 25 yr old barefoot horse for four hours when fit three times a week and his feet haven't worn Down......

He was previously shod all round then I took the backs off 10yrs ago and then the fronts 5/6 years ago and he's been great ever since transition.

If I have another horse after him I won't be shoeing it if I can help it. Barefoot is so much better and easier

 

[only_me]

It's threads like these that made me disappear for a couple of years.

OP why didn't you get shoes back on Billy when you brought him back into work, just out of interest? Oh, and great news that he IS back in work btw

When farrier was out Billy had somehow managed to annoy injury again so legs had ballooned & cut was still large and scab hadn't closed over. We thought putting shoes on would irritate everything, but they had to come off as toes were getting far too long. Vet didn't think we'd be on so soon & neither did farrier - farrier was booked to come back end of July lol.

Last week the hole has closed over really well & wasn't affected by his galloping about so got back on him & went for a hack! Didn't affect his cut at all so have continued to walk him now trying to get hold of farrier to come is proving an issue lol. It's fab to be back on

 

[ycbm]

Why is it rather than answer the question there has been a massive defensive reaction from barefoot?

There hasn't.

 

[Rowreach]

Don't you just love the July fortnight??!! Great news that you've started him, I've nothing useful to add except you are perfectly capable of knowing how the increased workload is affecting his feet .... after all you have been on HHO for years so you must be an expert in everything by now ;-)

 

[only_me]

I can hack my 25 yr old barefoot horse for four hours when fit three times a week and his feet haven't worn Down......
He was previously shod all round then I took the backs off 10yrs ago and then the fronts 5/6 years ago and he's been great ever since transition.
If I have another horse after him I won't be shoeing it if I can help it. Barefoot is so much better and easier

That's great that your horse hacks out happily barefoot when fit, and you find it easier. As I've said previously, I know lots of horses who hack/compete etc. without shoes and they do so happily. However they've done that for years.
My question was more focused on my newly unshod horse (i.e. Has only had shoes off for 10days or so) so is completely new to hacking without shoes and I wanted to know if it would wear foot down (or excessive shortening to be technical) if he's hacking 1hr a day on purely roads & signs I would need to look out for.
Added to that he is coming back into work from injury (so completely unfit) & I didn't want to cause any further damage. He'll be getting a set of shoes on when I can get him booked in with farrier.

But I will keep doing what I'm doing then from advice of others; build up work slowly and just read my horse to make sure he's happy