road users- wont listen!!

[Jazzy B]

not sure what's happening to my quoting in my above post! - sorry Tiger Tail!

 

[Jazzy B]

Got to disagree Miss Bean. Waving the arm up and Down seems to have no effect on drivers around here at all, if anything they speed up. Classic example, last Monday it was literally torrential rain here. We have to ride regardless of the weather. Hack out, dressed like the sodding Blackpool illuminations even with a 'Caution horse in training' tabard. Lots of standing water And lots of idiot drivers who DO speed up when you ask them to slow Down. They either do not understand or just cannot be bothered to.

Now some may say this is our problem for riding out in such foul weather but when one has several liveries, who need fitness work, with no walker or indoor school and limited off road hacking, this is our only option.

I think in a lot of situations, it is just shear ignorance. I don't even think a driver would think that splashing standing water would bother a horse.

Sometimes, I just think us horse riders have got it a little wrong and forgive me, this is not a personal attack on your tabard, but I don't think the whole polite campaign did any favors it certainly didn't endear the horsey community to Joe Bloggs they just thought we were a lot of "t**** who thought they were the police" I thought that and I ride a horse!

I do see people's problems, but I think we do need to get off our high horses and think of a new tact!

 

[JFTDWS]

I have a feeling that the "up and down" waving hand movement isn't in the highway code in the context some riders seem to expect... In fact, according to this, it means that you intend to slow down or stop, rather than that you wish the other road user to do so. As such there is no reason to expect drivers to psychically know that riders mean something different, and that this is taught in a RRS exam is absurd.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070566.pdf

And furthermore, I ride on the roads a lot, often busy roads, sometimes town roads or rural single lane NSL roads, and I have done for many years. The vast majority of road users are, in my opinion and experience, acting sensibly and with great consideration. I must be very lucky There's always the odd idiot, but some of the posters on this thread imply that they encounter a stupid majority, which is somewhat concerning.

 

[coss]

waving your arm up and down is not a signal for other road users to slow down - its simply a signal that says "i am slowing down". A bit like when you apply brakes in a car and the brake lights come on so people behind you know you're applying the brakes.
When I did my RRS (not that long ago) I'm fairly sure having a whip in my hand and waving it up and down would have been a fail - afterall it has potential to spook the horse waving a whip around

 

[megwan1]

Threads like this are not particularly helpful to driver/rider relationships, as both i have a few points to make.....

1. riding two abreast is easier to chat to your to friend thats why i do it when its safe, we move when cars come, also it looks to drivers that you are just hoggin the road for a chat therefore becomes annoying and drivers dont appreciate it.

2. waving a whip about when your horse is having a "fit".... fantastic idea OP i can only imagine this greatly improved the situation... i doubt it!

3. telling drivers what to do annoys them particularly when they are not being an obvious problem.... you cant expect non-horsey folk to know everything about horses on the road.

4. horses that cant cope with cars passing wide or slow should not be on the road.

5. i'm afraid the days when horses ruled the road has long gone and we as riders should do our best to manage the situation without annoying or patronising drivers because if we react badly to them they may be worse with the next rider and so on.

As for those poeple commenting that they train there horse to dance/tit about or turn there bum into the traffic... well more fool you and i would like to guarentee that at some point you will come off worse for it.

before you shoot me down in flames please read this with the common sense its meant with, i'm not being sarky or snide. I have had bad driver experiences when riding but have also had bad rider experiences when driving in a very sensible and careful way.

I think we all need to think about how regular non horsey people see these hand signals, "road positioning" and naughty horses, and then think how best to approach the situation.

thanks

 

[Jazzy B]

Threads like this are not particularly helpful to driver/rider relationships, as both i have a few points to make.....

1. riding two abreast is easier to chat to your to friend thats why i do it when its safe, we move when cars come, also it looks to drivers that you are just hoggin the road for a chat therefore becomes annoying and drivers dont appreciate it.

2. waving a whip about when your horse is having a "fit".... fantastic idea OP i can only imagine this greatly improved the situation... i doubt it!

3. telling drivers what to do annoys them particularly when they are not being an obvious problem.... you cant expect non-horsey folk to know everything about horses on the road.

4. horses that cant cope with cars passing wide or slow should not be on the road.

5. i'm afraid the days when horses ruled the road has long gone and we as riders should do our best to manage the situation without annoying or patronising drivers because if we react badly to them they may be worse with the next rider and so on.

As for those poeple commenting that they train there horse to dance/tit about or turn there bum into the traffic... well more fool you and i would like to guarentee that at some point you will come off worse for it.

before you shoot me down in flames please read this with the common sense its meant with, i'm not being sarky or snide. I have had bad driver experiences when riding but have also had bad rider experiences when driving in a very sensible and careful way.

I think we all need to think about how regular non horsey people see these hand signals, "road positioning" and naughty horses, and then think how best to approach the situation.

thanks

Well put!

 

[Littlelegs]

I do agree with most of what you say megwan. And teaching your horse to prat about of its own accord isn't something I'd do. The majority of drivers are fine, but the rare occasion I meet a moron attempting to pass somewhere, that as a driver I know is plain stupid, I will position myself, or ask for leg yield to convince them otherwise. I do generally ride abreast of my child, an 11.1 isn't very visible as a pony at a distance, even with hi viz. But we separate when a car has slowed down so it can pass. Otherwise riding abreast is for young horses or a chat when traffic isn't about. Tbh though, I have lived in various areas & experienced a lot of different roads & users. And I still say idiot drivers are the minority. Plus legal right or not, taking a horse out that is either nervous about traffic or when the rider is, imo is suicidal. Also ime the majority of nervous on roads horses boil down to either training or current riders attitude. Much as I hate the odd idiot drivers, the whole 'world should stop for my horse' attitude some riders have (not aimed at anyone on this thread particularly) does annoy me.

 

[Trinity Fox]

I think there are several things that come in to play here, some people just do not understand, others simply do not care and some just do not like horse riders.
Even cyclists, we are on a cycle route and have huge crowds sometimes whizzing up behind if the horses get a fright I always shout out can you please shout next time you are coming past, most ask does it not frighten the horses to shout out and I explain it is better to make them aware and they are always nice about it.

Drivers well that's a hard one some when you get out of their way it encourages them to go faster, some are very good and others you can tell they are trying to be rude,with the regular bad behaviour as in serial offenders if you are on a safe bit of road where you can stay in middle of road sometimes making them stop and explaining works, headshaking rider not horse can be effective, reporting them to the police will work or even if you are pretending to take a pic of the car this can make them think you are going to report them.

I have resorted to all out screaming and shouting at some and this has worked at times only today I stopped a local postman about a driver who quite frankly is scary, I said I didn't want to officially complain but was worried about said driver, he said I know I was in van with him before he is a maniac I will try and sort it, if you cannot stop or speak to them then I would resort to taking details and reporting if truly dangerous or hogging the road and forcing them to slow down even if you do get abuse for it at least you will be safe after all you do have right of way and safety has to come first.
Lot's of times drivers do not actually realise but always better to explain looking distressed than your I have right of way hat on, they are more likely to sympathise.


Mostly as with all the other things that happen when hacking I try to look at is as good training for the horses. It is free bombproofing your horse, there is lot's of free training of that type round our way for anybody who would like some.

 

[The wife]

I do agree on that point Miss Bean re the polite tabards. I personally refuse to wear one as agree that I don't think they did motorist vs riders any favours in persuading them that we are still normal everyday people. I didn't take it as a personal comment on my horse in training tabard as it is a normal hi-vis warning motorists that we are on a young/nervous/potentially erratic behaving horse.

Meganwan, IMHO, you do make some valid points, however your comments about 'telling' motorists what to do isn't quite fair. An educated horse rider will advise motorists on their situation be it on a nervous or young animal and request that they slow down to avoid a potential accident.

Again, with regards to the horse 'mis-behaving/prancing' about comment. Maybe this is what it has come down to these days that we have to potentially put ourselves in danger to protect ourselves? I admit, I have taught my horse to mess about on command as he is generally the one that babysits all the youngsters and it is the only method that I have so far found to be effective at slowing down fast moving traffic. I always give the motorist plenty of time and notice before I give the command and the opportunity to slow down. They are always politely thanked when they do slow down with a smile and a life of the hand and a thank you. Is this so wrong to protect our own animals and ourselves? My sister and I regularly - upto 3 horses each a day, and not by choice, have to hack on a 30mph village road but the amount of drivers that actually stick to that limit are very few and far between. Even the buses do not stick to it, thankfully they know us now so they do at least make an attempt to slow down a bit. When hacking with young and problematic horses our safest option is to ride 2 abreast with the traffic being as fast moving as it is.

I do agree that some horse riders do not help the relationship with motorists as many do not even acknowledge that one has slowed right down. It's rude and dis-courteous but there are many of us that do show respect for drivers as I find it infuriating to pass slowly and carefully and not be thanked for doing so.

 

[PeterNatt]

Having ridden in central London for many years I can share some tricks with you.

I always wear a long sleeved Hi-Viz jacket when riding on the roads so that other road users can clearly see any hand signals I make. My horse also has Hi-Viz on just in case we get seperated!

As regards slowing down vehicles approaching from behind I turn my head and look them in the eye and this normally results in them slowing down and passing wide.

If I wish to stop a vehicle then I point at them for 3 seconds and put the palm of my hand up facing towards them. This again normally does the trick.

I always thank vehicles that have been courtious to me by holding up my hand and smiling or if unable to do so nodding my head and smiling.

 

[coss]

I have a feeling that the "up and down" waving hand movement isn't in the highway code in the context some riders seem to expect... In fact, according to this, it means that you intend to slow down or stop, rather than that you wish the other road user to do so. As such there is no reason to expect drivers to psychically know that riders mean something different, and that this is taught in a RRS exam is absurd.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070566.pdf

And furthermore, I ride on the roads a lot, often busy roads, sometimes town roads or rural single lane NSL roads, and I have done for many years. The vast majority of road users are, in my opinion and experience, acting sensibly and with great consideration. I must be very lucky There's always the odd idiot, but some of the posters on this thread imply that they encounter a stupid majority, which is somewhat concerning.

in the RRS exam in my area- its made clear that its the "i intend to slow down" as its a common misconception.

 

[Sherbie]

This thread is quite interesting, esp for some people who may be looking to take the RRS exam. I think OP has a point - why are drivers nor responding to signals given? Then looking at the link JFTD posted it kind of makes sense. On your driving theory for example you learn hand signals for what YOU intend to do, not what you may be asking other road users to do. I suppose both are right depending on what you have been taught? Although there are some idiot drivers,theres no doubt that there are a good few who have no idea what a horse rider is signaling to them.

 

[RainbowDash]

Hi all,

Whilst on the road I assume that drivers don't understand hand signals ( I do use them but don't get annoyed if they do not understand) - most drivers will only encounter a horse 99.999999999999% of their driving careers - most don't know how to react and the majority do their best to do what they vaguely remember from their driving tests/driving theory exams.

Horses don't have indicators or brake lights which can confuse and panic a car driver /motorbiker/cyclist etc.

I have encountered lovely motorists who pull up and switch off their engines - unfortunately my ponio gets more nervous going past a stationary vehicle but put him past a moving road roller, dumper truck, arctic etc and he breezes past.

A few months ago, I had a lovely young chap slow down and creep past at a respectful distance - all great until his 'big-bore' exhaust popped and sent the Shire i was riding into a spin - ekk!

You're in control of your horse - please don't get annoyed at motorists.

 

[Queenbee]

I am lucky where i am in that the roads are narrow and twisty. Local drivers are expecting to meet horses and often sheep being driven down the lanes so even if they are driving fairly fast they are ready to brake. Tourists are frightened to go fast because of the roads.

I have been in many areas where traffic is dangerous to horses, come to that dangerous to a lot of other road users! What I have done is to have a pocketful of pebbles, and if a car ignores my hand signals to slow down I will throw the pebbles at the car. That slows them down but is it my fault that because they were driving fast past me, my horse spooked and the dirt in his hoot hit the car?

Also on a straight road I will put the horse across the road if I think they are not going to slow.

Yeah, I have the same down here in cornwall, it really does help, except there are a couple of complete plonkers who regularly drive round these roads beeping their horns to 'alert' other drivers I haven't come across them on ben yet, but when I do they will probably get a bit of a gob full off me

 

[Pedantic]

Problem is we have bred a NOA who are totally selfish, and don't give toss about anyone else, so it won't matter how many test's you pass or how much HiViz you wear or what signals you give it won't help, they will park where and how they want, fly tip where they want, drop litter where they want, spit where they want, queue jump when they want, tressapass where they want, use their mobile while driveing, all without a single twinge of concience, welcome to the UK 2012

 

[maggiemoto]

Thanks, he was a rescue horse, we bought him off Bodmin moor as a very neglected two year old. The ones that were with him went for meat, but we couldnt have them all.

Having watched the video, my heart goes out to you for your loss. We should all consider ourselves blessed that we are able to share our lives with such beautiful and knowing beings, we should be eternally grateful.

 

[firstponyMinto]

Problem is we have bred a NOA who are totally selfish, and don't give toss about anyone else, so it won't matter how many test's you pass or how much HiViz you wear or what signals you give it won't help, they will park where and how they want, fly tip where they want, drop litter where they want, spit where they want, queue jump when they want, tressapass where they want, use their mobile while driveing, all without a single twinge of concience, welcome to the UK 2012

I totally agree Pedantic....

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Yeah, I have the same down here in cornwall, it really does help, except there are a couple of complete plonkers who regularly drive round these roads beeping their horns to 'alert' other drivers I haven't come across them on ben yet, but when I do they will probably get a bit of a gob full off me

Alerting other drivers of your presence on a blind spot on single track lanes is not being a plonker, its sensible because it gives other road users a few extra seconds forewarning.

 

[JFTDWS]

in the RRS exam in my area- its made clear that its the "i intend to slow down" as its a common misconception.

Then the OP is lying, stupid or has had the misfortune of a very bad RRS course and examiner, since she claims otherwise I should clarify that I anticipated that might be the case

Problem is we have bred a NOA who are totally selfish, and don't give toss about anyone else, so it won't matter how many test's you pass or how much HiViz you wear or what signals you give it won't help, they will park where and how they want, fly tip where they want, drop litter where they want, spit where they want, queue jump when they want, tressapass where they want, use their mobile while driveing, all without a single twinge of concience, welcome to the UK 2012

Aw c'mon, it's not that bad. Not everyone is out for what they can get away with, surely?

 

[cremedemonthe]

Problem is we have bred a NOA who are totally selfish, and don't give toss about anyone else, so it won't matter how many test's you pass or how much HiViz you wear or what signals you give it won't help, they will park where and how they want, fly tip where they want, drop litter where they want, spit where they want, queue jump when they want, tressapass where they want, use their mobile while driveing, all without a single twinge of concience, welcome to the UK 2012

You hit the nail right on the head Pedantic!

 

[PaddyMonty]

Some interesting (worrying?) attitudes and assumptions on this thread.
Most drivers dont know diddly about horses!
Most drivers do not understand what a horse can do, is doing or what it might do next.
A horse dancing around in the middle of the road may actually encourage a driver to get past as quickly as possible.

Riders dont help themselves either.
I do not appreciate being given a signal to slow down (wrong signal anyway) when I already have. Rider just hasn't bothered to look round and ascertain if they need to give some guidance.

Where it is not possible to pass safely (narrow lane etc) I do not appreciate being held up for several minutes while the rider ambles along the road for 200yrds before pulling in to a gateway. Trot on!!!!!!!

Not thanking or even acknowledging a driver who has taken every precaution when passing your horse is a) extremely rude and b) may well cause a problem for the next horse the driver encounters. It may give the driver the false impression that the actions he has just taken were not necessary.

Riding with the attitude that horse have right of way etc is not helpful in this day and age.

So....
Make eye contact with the driver (smile as you do so).
Get out of the way as soon as you can
Only give drivers signals if you need to, not as a matter of routine
Thank ALL drivers, even the ones who didn't slow down as much as you would have liked. It might just get them thinking next time they pass a horse.

In 48 years of hacking on roads the number of true idiots or unhelpful drivers I have encountered is very small. Perhaps thats because I am seen by the driver as someone who is trying their best not to hold them up.

 

[monkeybum13]

Some interesting (worrying?) attitudes and assumptions on this thread.
Most drivers dont know diddly about horses!
Most drivers do not understand what a horse can do, is doing or what it might do next.
A horse dancing around in the middle of the road may actually encourage a driver to get past as quickly as possible.

Riders dont help themselves either.
I do not appreciate being given a signal to slow down (wrong signal anyway) when I already have. Rider just hasn't bothered to look round and ascertain if they need to give some guidance.

Where it is not possible to pass safely (narrow lane etc) I do not appreciate being held up for several minutes while the rider ambles along the road for 200yrds before pulling in to a gateway. Trot on!!!!!!!

Not thanking or even acknowledging a driver who has taken every precaution when passing your horse is a) extremely rude and b) may well cause a problem for the next horse the driver encounters. It may give the driver the false impression that the actions he has just taken were not necessary.

Riding with the attitude that horse have right of way etc is not helpful in this day and age.

So....
Make eye contact with the driver (smile as you do so).
Get out of the way as soon as you can
Only give drivers signals if you need to, not as a matter of routine
Thank ALL drivers, even the ones who didn't slow down as much as you would have liked. It might just get them thinking next time they pass a horse.

In 48 years of hacking on roads the number of true idiots or unhelpful drivers I have encountered is very small. Perhaps thats because I am seen by the driver as someone who is trying their best not to hold them up.

PaddyMonty, its not just on this thread but on several other threads too, I just wanted to say thank you for saving me the time of typing out when you cover exactly what I wanted to say

 

[AmyMay]

Some interesting (worrying?) attitudes and assumptions on this thread.
Most drivers dont know diddly about horses!
Most drivers do not understand what a horse can do, is doing or what it might do next.
A horse dancing around in the middle of the road may actually encourage a driver to get past as quickly as possible.

Riders dont help themselves either.
I do not appreciate being given a signal to slow down (wrong signal anyway) when I already have. Rider just hasn't bothered to look round and ascertain if they need to give some guidance.

Where it is not possible to pass safely (narrow lane etc) I do not appreciate being held up for several minutes while the rider ambles along the road for 200yrds before pulling in to a gateway. Trot on!!!!!!!

Not thanking or even acknowledging a driver who has taken every precaution when passing your horse is a) extremely rude and b) may well cause a problem for the next horse the driver encounters. It may give the driver the false impression that the actions he has just taken were not necessary.

Riding with the attitude that horse have right of way etc is not helpful in this day and age.

So....
Make eye contact with the driver (smile as you do so).
Get out of the way as soon as you can
Only give drivers signals if you need to, not as a matter of routine
Thank ALL drivers, even the ones who didn't slow down as much as you would have liked. It might just get them thinking next time they pass a horse.

In 48 years of hacking on roads the number of true idiots or unhelpful drivers I have encountered is very small. Perhaps thats because I am seen by the driver as someone who is trying their best not to hold them up.

So perfectly put.

Thank you.

 

[Hippona]

Well said PaddyMonty.

 

[CobLover1992]

Not to get in any arguments... But i see people saying that drivers rule the road more...

I have recently (4 months ago) passed my driving test. In all my books, DVDs and lessons, the highway code ect... It is the law to slow down for horses basically. It's in the theory and everything. So, sorry, but when i see people saying that basically we need to be more respective of cars that do not slow down.. That's just a load of horse muck in my opinion...

And as for the sticking your hand out with a whip in. Not always a bad thing. I do it, but i tuck my whip into my arm rather than letting it hang if you know what i mean. It's quick and easy and saves the hassle of fiddling with a whip in the wrong hand or trying to keep hold of it.

And horses do not have right of way. If i come to a junction, traffic lights, or anything i have to stop for if i was driving, i will stop if i'm on my horse. I've even on occasion found myself pulling over to let drivers pass me because it irritates my horse when they hover behind him for too long.

At the end of the day, horses AND cars (or any other vehicle) share the road. If drivers respect riders, we'll respect them.
And also, saying dangerous horses shouldn't be on the road... What about dangerous drivers??? Heck knows we have plenty of them around!

 

[storm123]

some responses are crazy! if you take road safety, hand signels are key, just ignorent drivers, wont relise me waving my hand around with my whip, with eye contaact with the driver!

 

[Vetwrap]

I've had a full driving license for 20 years, a full motorcycle license for 10 years and been riding for 26 years. I've been on crutches for the past three days since a couple of motorcyclists on a single track country lane decided to try and scare my horse and my friend's horse.
I am assured that my horses wounds from where he fell on the road, are healing well and that he is now sound. Unfortunately I am confined to barracks by my own injuries, but I am desperate to see him for myself.
I had a hi-vis "horse in training" tabard on, as did my friend. We were riding two abreast because my horse is still learning the ropes, but I was on the grass verge. The only reason that I am not in hospital is because I promised my husband that I would always hack this horse out in the air vest he bought me and the air vest did it's job we'll.
My friend also successfully flagged down the bikers, slowing them down, as they were out havin a hooley on a summer evening. Once alongside, they rev'd up and took off up the road, leaving my horse terrified and eventually falling in the road before trying to jump an 8 foot wide hedge and getting stuck in it.
I know that most genuine bikers would join me in wanting a little chat with these two clowns. I know that most bikers have the utmost respect for everything else on the road, because when you are on a bike, that is what keeps you alive.
I hope that my boy and I can get past this and that he will be ok in traffic in the future.
Time will tell. Given that I lost my other horse to a broken leg only a fortnight ago, right now I count myself very lucky to still have him.
It's been a very painful couple of weeks, in all respects.

 

[storm123]

I've had a full driving license for 20 years, a full motorcycle license for 10 years and been riding for 26 years. I've been on crutches for the past three days since a couple of motorcyclists on a single track country lane decided to try and scare my horse and my friend's horse.
I am assured that my horses wounds from where he fell on the road, are healing well and that he is now sound. Unfortunately I am confined to barracks by my own injuries, but I am desperate to see him for myself.
I had a hi-vis "horse in training" tabard on, as did my friend. We were riding two abreast because my horse is still learning the ropes, but I was on the grass verge. The only reason that I am not in hospital is because I promised my husband that I would always hack this horse out in the air vest he bought me and the air vest did it's job we'll.
My friend also successfully flagged down the bikers, slowing them down, as they were out havin a hooley on a summer evening. Once alongside, they rev'd up and took off up the road, leaving my horse terrified and eventually falling in the road before trying to jump an 8 foot wide hedge and getting stuck in it.
I know that most genuine bikers would join me in wanting a little chat with these two clowns. I know that most bikers have the utmost respect for everything else on the road, because when you are on a bike, that is what keeps you alive.
I hope that my boy and I can get past this and that he will be ok in traffic in the future.
Time will tell. Given that I lost my other horse to a broken leg only a fortnight ago, right now I count myself very lucky to still have him.
It's been a very painful couple of weeks, in all respects.

im so sorry to hear! thoughts are with you x x x