Rockley Farm

cptrayes said:
It isn't. Questions phrased reasonably are always answered reasonably. I spend a lot of my time answering people's questions about barefoot.



But Festive Fairy didn't say that, did she? She said



which in the context of the post she was responding to was impossible for me to read as anything but an attack.

If Festive Fairy had written what you wrote instead, then there would have been no problem. Thankyou for translating for her but your translation is not actually either of the "questions" that she posed.
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Andalucian didn't take my question as an attack so not sure why you would.

I have learnt a lot about barefoot in the last 12 months mainly from people on here (including you) so I have no reason to attack barefoot infact, my mare has been barefoot for about 7 years I just choose not to take her front shoes off.
 
I'm sorry I've caused such an argument, I just want the best for my mare
i would love to do the rehab at home but working full time and having a diy liv
ery yard environment I do not think I have access to the stimuli needed to progress.
Would any one be willingtp to chat me through what actual rehab they did at home and what sort of ground conditions were available to them.
I am willing to out the hours in, I just know though, that I would be unhappy leading a lame horse for miles.
 
SARAHSALLYRUBY said:
I'm sorry I've caused such an argument, I just want the best for my mare
i would love to do the rehab at home but working full time and having a diy liv
ery yard environment I do not think I have access to the stimuli needed to progress.
Would any one be willingtp to chat me through what actual rehab they did at home and what sort of ground conditions were available to them.
I am willing to out the hours in, I just know though, that I would be unhappy leading a lame horse for miles.
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I'm sure you will get offers of help from some very knowledgeable people on here.

Once you know what's involved you'll know what is best for you and your horse.

Good luck :)
 
Morning every one, just read my post back and realised how many mistakes are in it!

Was on the other comp, bad keyboard, and it was getting late, should reply earlier next time.

Thanks for every ones replies, its a lot to think about and take in.

Im just trying to sort transport as i sold my lorry back in the summer, before i had even heard about Rockley!!

Looks like its going to cost another £500 each way for a transporter!!

Hopefully i can borow a trailer and tow.

I think i have made the decision to go ahead with Rockley as i feel it is worth the trip down there and the money to get he right help and knowledge from people in the know.

I feel that i could not rehab Ruby at home due to the yard environment and facilities availaible. I also think i would worry too much and give up.

Has any one had any horses at Rockley who have not got better, would love to hear both outcomes.

I agree that nothing out of the ordinary happens at Rockley, but at least they have the knowledge, experience and understanding.

As for helping Ruby when she comes home, i know i will have a supportive farrier, and have already been looking into moving yards to give my girly the best chance once she returns home.

Can anyone tell me what sort of work there horses came home able to do??

Thank you

Off to work now.....

x
 
Don't feel you should be able to do it at home, if sending her to Rockley is an option then take it as you would be giving her the best possible start.

Couple of practical answers.

I used those websites that let you enter a journey and horse transporters come back to you with a quote, if you're lucky you find a transporter that is doing a run in that direction. Quotes varied from £200 to £500 from Herts to Exmoor. Also check with Nic, there is someone that other people have used who is reasonably priced.

Mine came back to do everything, jump, hunt etc. When I got him home I spent a couple of months hacking and then introduced schooling and then jumping.

Unfortunately two years after he had an injury to his shoulder which despite an operation hasn't resolved. He's turned away at the moment.
 
Tiffany said:
Understood - I moved yards a few years ago which meant I changed farrier. My mare went lame the first time he shod her, plus he insisted on toe clips which she'd not had after tweaking a suspensory ligamnent.

He was a registered farrier so I gave him the benefit of the doubt for about 3 more times then called it a day when she got a bulge in her hoof wall and he wouldn't shoe her the way she'd always been shod.

It took me months to get her sound and last year she was diagnosed with navicular (not saying that's his fault although, don't think he helped?)

I have a good farrier who works with vet and I'm pleased to say she's doing really well :)
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You did right to walk away when the bulge appeared. Navicular is unlikely to be directly linked to this though, as its more to do with overall contraction in the caudal part of the foot. Bulges are usually due to wall being too long, so the bulge happens as the foot tries to balance itself internally against this problem.

Glad things are going well for you currently - the best approach is to keep learning/listening and challenging soundness issues until you get the right result for your particular horse.
 
cptrayes said:
The big issue with doing a rehab at home, as I have now done twice, is that in order to stimulate the back of the foot, unsound horses need work. At Rockley, that is done initiallly with group turnout onto a circular track system where the horses walk themselves around and around all day on various surfaces of different levels of challenge. While their feet are still weak, they can choose less difficult surfaces.

What we need is a string of rehab yards around the country the same. I'm quite surprised that no-one has yet set one up in the north or the south west, but live in hope.
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Precisely, the environment and the herd moving the new horses about over the variety of stimulating surfaces is the key to Rockley's success. Its speeds up the process, and horses can just get on with it, lame or sound, without uneducated, worried owners panicking that they're sore. In time, they just come right, but to do this at home needs careful handholding of the owner if they're new to barefoot and have a very delicate footed horse.

If I win the Lottery I'll have a rehab yard in Somerset within the year - promise
 
OP, worth speaking to Nic about transport, she may even be able to help you with sharing a journey with another owner.

My horse came home to some light hacking, built it up gradually and he now works 6 days a week including 1 lesson & 1 schooling session. We did our very first XC jumps ever at the rehab reunion 2012 and we're hoping to get to our very first dressage comp in a couple of months :-O only a walk & trot but it will be a real landmark for us!

!
 
Andalucian said:
Precisely, the environment and the herd moving the new horses about over the variety of stimulating surfaces is the key to Rockley's success. Its speeds up the process, and horses can just get on with it, lame or sound, without uneducated, worried owners panicking that they're sore. In time, they just come right, but to do this at home needs careful handholding of the owner if they're new to barefoot and have a very delicate footed horse.

If I win the Lottery I'll have a rehab yard in Somerset within the year - promise
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I meant south east of course, since Rockley is on Exmoor, but another one anywhere will be a bonus!
 
Tiffany said:
Andalucian didn't take my question as an attack so not sure why you would.
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She didn't need to, I had already responded to you. And unlike Festive Fairy and you, we are two different people with two different characters :) Meanwhile, to me it continues to sound as though you are looking for an argument with this post too.

I have learnt a lot about barefoot in the last 12 months mainly from people on here (including you) so I have no reason to attack barefoot infact, my mare has been barefoot for about 7 years I just choose not to take her front shoes off.
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I think we both agree that you worded both your statements that I took exception to in a way which could be misinterpreted fairly easily, otherwise you would not have needed to volunteer a "translation" of your own post.

Now, can we just focus on what is best for the horses???

I personally would never define a horse with any shoes on as a barefoot horse. Is there a particular reason why you don't take your mare's front shoes off?
 
Andalucian said:
If I win the Lottery I'll have a rehab yard in Somerset within the year - promise
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If I win I'll do one in Lancashire :D

If I had the knowledge and even a small piece of land I'd give it a go up here anyway. CPTrayes is right we do need more rehab centres in other parts of the country.

But if my girl ever needed it I'd carry her to Rockley if I had to :o
 
SARAHSALLYRUBY said:
I'm sorry I've caused such an argument, I just want the best for my mare
i would love to do the rehab at home but working full time and having a diy liv
ery yard environment I do not think I have access to the stimuli needed to progress.
Would any one be willingtp to chat me through what actual rehab they did at home and what sort of ground conditions were available to them.
I am willing to out the hours in, I just know though, that I would be unhappy leading a lame horse for miles.
Click to expand...


If you check out my blog, address in my signature, starting on October 14th 2012, you will find a day by day record of my latest rehab, who has now been sound since late November. He arrived bilaterally lame, almost certainly with ddft strains in both feet, collateral ligament damage on both sides of one forefoot and on one side of the other. He also had very odd things going on with the back feet too.

My facilities are a grass field, roads, a fibre/rubber arena and a small barn that 3 horses overnight together in, so they have plenty of movement and their feet get to dry out. Most of my rehab work is done on roads.

In another blog, which I can give you the address to if you like, there is a day by day account of my first one, who was full blown navicular as well as probable insulin resistance resulting in desperately soft feet. He has now been sound for well over two years.
 
Have just joined the thread with interest as i have a 13 year old WB with coffin joint issues,and on his inside fore he dishes as he put his foot down a rabbit hole as a yearling which caused a twist within the hoof (xrays showed the twisty bones),which in turn caused dishing.Over time this has created the pressure resulting in lameness.He has had three treatments with steroid injections and hyluronic acid and two rounds of adequan.Currently he is sound and i am trying to keep him exercised even though time is precious and the weather is appalling.My daughter used to show jump him,and he has jumped fairly big tracks until 18 months ago when the lameness started.Currently i usually try to hack out,at weekends at the moment.So far he is fine,but occasionally a bit uncertain going down steep hills.He has natural balance shoes and his feet trimmed every 4 weeks,as if he goes longer,his feet get sore.My question is;would my WB be a suitable candidate for barefoot and the Rockley rehab regime? Neither myself,or anyone i know has any experience of barefoot rehab and i would appreciate any opinions which in the longer term could keep my boy sound.
 
Wundahorse, Frank is a 19yo welsh with coffin joint issues (DJD diagnosis with reverse rotated pedal bones).. who also dishes because.. well.. he is welsh ;) and lands laterally first (although less so now)- so I would be surprised if he didn't have any collateral ligament issues too.

He had 2 treatments of steroid +HA end of 2011/early 2012 and was bar shod but did not maintain soundness when trot work was introduced after each injection.

Shoes came off March 2012, had no experience of barefoot other than this forum and rockley would have been complicated as then no company for mum's horse at home! I got a good, very lovely trimmer on board and just took things very slowly. We also (partly due to waistlines) set up a track round the edge of the field so that they were moving round more, we also got a bit of pea gravel though not sure that worked. We did do a lot of walking and I took it quite slowly as had the time. Now have a sound pony :) Ridden 4/5 times a week dressaging, jumping a bit on the beach etc. He has been a been footy sometimes, particularly as they re-gritted all our local roads :p but we have some hoof boots for when we need them so we can keep the work up.
 
Wundahorse -

You may find a horse like yours who has some odd things going on within the hoof, will grow a strange foot to compensate and this may well work very well for him. However it takes a brave person to leave this alone and not trim to standard shaped hoof.

Might be worth reading though some of the histories on the Rockley blog to see examples of this.
 
Wundahorse, in short, Yes, and QUICKLY.

If the horse is so delicate that it goes lame in 4 weeks post shoeing, whilst still in shoes, its pretty fragile and close to being permanently unsound in shoes.

The age and breed of your horse is classic for these type of problems in long term shoes, and IMO you have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain by rehabilitating the feet without shoes. I work with clients to do this themselves at their own stables, but its far easier on you with a horse as delicate as this to send it to a rehabilitation yard to transition safely and quickly.

I lost my first horse after following a similar path to the one you describe, long before I learnt about barefoot. If I owned that horse now, she'd still be alive as I'd know how to fix her.
 
Another yes from me Wundahorse. My current rehab had been four years unsound and is now fine, but growing a very odd set of feet, all round. Not a straight one among them, but obviously they are what he needs because he is sound on them.

You horse's best chance, in my experience, would be to be allowed to grow the hoof he needs to fit the wonky bones in his foot/leg, however odd a foot that is.

I'm another who thinks that lame 4 weeks after each shoeing is likely to be a sign that he is soon not going to be sound in shoes at all.
 
Thank you all for your support and i will definitely consider the barefoot route as our WB is a lovely boy and much too nice a horse to allow him to deteriorate if there is an alternative way of managing him.I'm just a little wary as i have no personal experience of barefoot rehab.I think if he goes lame again i will be talking to Nic at Rockley,but at the moment i am just struggling to get through winter with all the usual life balancing stuff so once the weather picks up and the lighter evenings emerge,i will be on the case.Is there anything i can do in the interim to support my horse?
 
A high fibre, low carb especially low sugar diet is the first place to go. Then add a foot formula vit and min mix, with most people seeming to get on very well indeed with the Pro Earth one sold on eBay. Some people add additional magnesium oxide.

If you have an area where you could lay pea gravel (or bed a stable in it), that will massage his soles and frogs and improve the quality of them before his shoes come off.

Meanwhile, try to stop your farrier trimming his frogs if you can.
 
Thank you for that i will definitely look at his diet.Currently he has fast fibre,calm and condition and a chaff,usually Happy Hoof,with extraflex and rose-hips and some garlic,oh and micronised Linseed as i have read on this forum that this is good for the foot.I suppose i can put pea gravel around the gateway.At the moment he is sound,but the ground is favourable being very soft.I am not sure whether to leave things be as he is sound,or just bite the bullet and have the shoes removed.I will give him the magnesium although we tried it once,some years ago and it seemed to have an energizing effect.I give my other two magnitude for foot health and as a relaxant,particularly for my Section D mare who can be stressy.When we had the lameness work up and xrays,we could not check the DDFT as there was no MRI,but it does seem obvious this may be a contributory factor.Is there anything else i can do to minimize further damage?
 
Andalucian said:
Wundahorse, in short, Yes, and QUICKLY.

If the horse is so delicate that it goes lame in 4 weeks post shoeing, whilst still in shoes, its pretty fragile and close to being permanently unsound in shoes.

The age and breed of your horse is classic for these type of problems in long term shoes, and IMO you have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain by rehabilitating the feet without shoes. I work with clients to do this themselves at their own stables, but its far easier on you with a horse as delicate as this to send it to a rehabilitation yard to transition safely and quickly.

I lost my first horse after following a similar path to the one you describe, long before I learnt about barefoot. If I owned that horse now, she'd still be alive as I'd know how to fix her.
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Andalucian are you a specialist foot therapist and how would you go about rehab at home.I worry my WB could be a handful in that when he gets excited or scared he has a tendency to tank of in hand,and i would hate it if he injured anyone.We are familiar with this habit and manage it with certain strategies.The odd thing is he has done this in times when he was lame,on hard and soft ground.In any event i would prefer to do the rehab from home,that is if i am competent to do it.
 
I'm in Kent,in the Maidstone area.I had never heard of Rockley until i started using this forum,and had no concept then of the benefits of barefoot.Without all of the wonderful knowledge and information from the ,dare i say it,"barefoot Taliban",it seems a lot of horses would be destined to a life of pain and at worst euthanasia.It seems there is nobody in my area,or at least as far as i know, who have barefoot rehab experience.Like most people i have little time outside of work,horses,walking the dogs and housework to do anything else in the day,which limits what i can do outside of that routine,until spring arrives and the horses can live out.Sadly this is a fantasy at the moment.If there is anyone in the area that will certainly help.
 
Wundahorse said:
Andalucian are you a specialist foot therapist and how would you go about rehab at home.I worry my WB could be a handful in that when he gets excited or scared he has a tendency to tank of in hand,and i would hate it if he injured anyone.We are familiar with this habit and manage it with certain strategies.The odd thing is he has done this in times when he was lame,on hard and soft ground.In any event i would prefer to do the rehab from home,that is if i am competent to do it.
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Yes, I'm an Equine Podiatrist. Each horse is different, and you need to assess it and advise on how it presents. Personalities also change quite remarkably once horses start to heal. If you'd prefer to do this at home, then seek out a reputable barefoot specialist in your area to guide you through.
 
Wundahorse said:
I'm in Kent,in the Maidstone area.I had never heard of Rockley until i started using this forum,and had no concept then of the benefits of barefoot.Without all of the wonderful knowledge and information from the ,dare i say it,"barefoot Taliban",it seems a lot of horses would be destined to a life of pain and at worst euthanasia.It seems there is nobody in my area,or at least as far as i know, who have barefoot rehab experience.Like most people i have little time outside of work,horses,walking the dogs and housework to do anything else in the day,which limits what i can do outside of that routine,until spring arrives and the horses can live out.Sadly this is a fantasy at the moment.If there is anyone in the area that will certainly help.
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I am in Ashford, if you hear of anyone let me know, my boy has ddft damage and collateral ligament damage in the hinds, having an assessment at the end of this month and will talk to the vet. I think i need to some more research on this as it makes a lot of sense, cptrayes and oberon both very helpful in this subject
 
NooNoo59 said:
I am in Ashford, if you hear of anyone let me know, my boy has ddft damage and collateral ligament damage in the hinds, having an assessment at the end of this month and will talk to the vet. I think i need to some more research on this as it makes a lot of sense, cptrayes and oberon both very helpful in this subject
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I agree without CPTRAYES and Oberon there would be no help for some horses other than conventional methods.Andalucian has also been very helpful.I think i now have a plan but need to find an expert in Kent first.
 
.I worry my WB could be a handful in that when he gets excited or scared he has a tendency to tank of in hand,and i would hate it if he injured anyone.We are familiar with this habit and manage it with certain strategies.The odd thing is he has done this in times when he was lame,on hard and soft ground
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Not a hoof expert, but I can comment on the tanking :)

It's likely to do with pain and adrenalin. Let's put it in a human context. Suppose you wake up one morning with a bad back, and every movement causes you some discomfort - you really don't feel like moving suddenly at all. But the pain makes you feel a bit grumpy - pain lowers the threshold at which we respond to threats (this is a safety mechanism, since if you're injured you need to allow yourself more time to escape from predators). So you are a bit reactive - and if someone goes to touch you suddenly, even if it's only to help steady you, you will - despite the fact that you've been trying to move very carefully up to that point - move quickly and suddenly to get out of their way.

The situation with horses is similar. A horse who's in pain, either because of foot problems, sore back or e.g. ulcers, already has that lowered threshold to react, and is already grumpy and irritable. So even things that would not normally set them off will cause them to react strongly - they will be spookier, and harder to handle.

If the horse is in less discomfort - e.g if the shoes are exacerbating the pain and you take then off - they will be less reactive, and less likely to tank off on you.

As commented above, horse personalities often change for the better when low level lameness (or, indeed, sore backs or ulcers) is resolved :)
 
He doesn't tank of all the time,just on occasions when something has spooked him,the JCB is out,(which he hates), he is simply overexcited,or the other horses are hooning around.He is a strong boy in hand and very hard to stop.Apparently he picked up the habit as a foal,and as he was gelded late(3) it got worse.He lifted a big woman of the floor once,which shows his strength.Knowing him well i do not believe any of the tanking off is pain related at all.I just don't want to send him for rehab for him to have these little exuberance's.
 
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