Rollkur / Low, Deep, Round?? What's the general consensus?

I think that it is a method, when used in moderation, has its place. It is also pretty successful! However, when the method is abused, it can and does have adverse effectc.

Lou x
 
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I think that it is a method, when used in moderation, has its place. It is also pretty successful! However, when the method is abused, it can and does have adverse effectc.

Lou x

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Ditto this. It has its place in the RIGHT hands. In the wrong hands its barbaric
 
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I think that it is a method, when used in moderation, has its place. It is also pretty successful! However, when the method is abused, it can and does have adverse effectc.

Lou x

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i agree too...as with all horsey equipment and gadgets e.g. draw reins etc
 
People seem to forget, that alot of horses naturally go in the rollkur position. They also forget that up until Anky Was seen to be using rollkur, it was quite a popular method.

Oh and vets have studied the method and found it to have no adverse effects on the horse.

Lou x
 
Ah, right. So what are the benefits supposed to be (not that I would be attempting this in a million years - I would so be the 'wrong hands' lol)?
 
But there's a difference between a horse going into that position naturally for a short amount of time, and schooling with it held for a more prolonged period of time.
 
zefragile, I was referring the way they carry themselves under the saddle not free in a paddock. I said when used in moderation.. not over prolonged periods.

Flicker you sound like you disagree.. So present you arguement.

Lou x
 
Nailed, no I don't disagree at all. What I meant was that I am in no way an experienced enough rider to attempt something like this exercise in the proper way - hence I would be the 'wrong hands'.
I am genuinely interested in what the benefits are. I don't really have an opinion either way because I am largely ignorant of the technique (other than what I've read on the website) so am asking the opinions of the forum members who are more conversant in it than myself.
 
Oh Blimey.... not again.......................
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Ok then I apologise, It came across diferently.

Benefits include stronger upper neck and back muscles.
Looser muscles.
A softer more supple 'outline'
Heightened response to the aids as the conserntration seems to be more channelled..

Ok im waffling now..
shush!

Lou x
 
i don't know loads about it (so am prepared to be shot down) but in moderation can be useful to get horses to unlock in their necks and can help them to build topline and then when you allow them up and onto the bit as normal they can carry themselves better and don't lean on the hand etc etc. i did a bit of deep and round with instructor with old horse (grey in my siggy) and he went from average dressage to WOW in about 6 months. it was very much in moderation though
 
Really, everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon and demonise certain activities -
Horses DO do it naturally
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I think using it like any stretching excercise has its benefits, if it suits your horse, but I would never attempt to use it in conjunction with advanced moves like half-pass.
 
Objecting to rollkur isn't necessarily "jumping on the bandwagon". I object very much to rollkur, but I'm not just blindly following anybody elses opinions.

The horse in that picture probably didn't hold that position very long, though. I personally don't think horses putting themselves in that type of position for a moment is comparable to being held that way for a prolonged period of time by a rider
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but could you not argue that the vast majority of things we ask them to do under saddle aren't what they would do naturally? if you lunge a horse or free school with no side reains on or whatever very few horses choose to go around 'on the bit' and yet most people expect their horse to go this way when ridden?
 
I dont think it has any place in the correct and sympathetic training of the horse.
It may, however, help you win Olympic medals on a big, strong, powerful horse which has been over-bred to look attractive to the modern dressage judge's eye.
 
just to add as well that i wouldn't use it on every horse....not by any stretch of the imagination...only used it on grey as more sympathetic methods just didn't work with him....to be more sympathetic would be my preference but then my preference would always to ride in a snaffle and never use any gadgets and sometimes you just have to depending on the horse....
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Don't beat urself up diggerbez, there is a difference between working the horse deeper ie stretching/lifting the back and encouraging it to stretch into the contact, and working them in an extremely overbent fashion for a long period of time.

I saw a photograph of Anky schooling and the horse had its chin tucked into its chest. Then...I saw the actual video of Anky riding the horse (from which the still was taken) and the horse tucked its chin in for just a second then went back to a nice, soft outline. The still made out that Anky schools her horses for long periods this way - some people will do anything to cause some drama!

I'm not sure what I think about rollkur, but until there is some concrete evidence to say that it is detrimental I will save judgement. Wouldn't use it myself, but then my horse is only 4 and it is inappropriate at his current stage in training. Trying to get him to stretch into the contact is our focus at the moment, as he naturally wants to work in an uphill fashion, as his conformation is conducive to it.
 
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Don't beat urself up diggerbez, there is a difference between working the horse deeper ie stretching/lifting the back and encouraging it to stretch into the contact, and working them in an extremely overbent fashion for a long period of time.

I saw a photograph of Anky schooling and the horse had its chin tucked into its chest. Then...I saw the actual video of Anky riding the horse (from which the still was taken) and the horse tucked its chin in for just a second then went back to a nice, soft outline. The still made out that Anky schools her horses for long periods this way - some people will do anything to cause some drama!

I'm not sure what I think about rollkur, but until there is some concrete evidence to say that it is detrimental I will save judgement. Wouldn't use it myself, but then my horse is only 4 and it is inappropriate at his current stage in training. Trying to get him to stretch into the contact is our focus at the moment, as he naturally wants to work in an uphill fashion, as his conformation is conducive to it.

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oh i'm not beating myself up at all...
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just making the point that its easy to dismiss things and then you might find you NEED to use them at some point in the future....i have a very open mind to things really....
how is Uno anyway...been doing any more jumping?
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This is my horse who held this position for a matter seconds. The difference is that it was his choice, his timing and he was not forced into it.

What I object to is it being a forced position for a sustained amount of time all in the pursuit of a competition. This is what I object to.
 
Wondered if you knew who I was!!!

No, just the once the other day. Only do about 4 days work with him per week, don't want to overdo it. I nearly came off tonight, he got startled by some kids on bikes and legged it REALLY fast in the menage, but he slowed down eventually. So difficult when you are trying not to hang on to their mouth - thank god for the neck strap!!!!

Hope Vandi boy is behaving!
 
i did PM you the other day...thought you were ignoring me!!!

yes he's fantabulous. had a stressage lesson with him tonight and he was such a good boy
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it would be so easy to forget how young he is and push him too quickly....he's got a weekend off now
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As in hundreds of other posts, maybe it can be used in the right hands, I wouldnt know. IMO, fwiw, if draw reins are used as an excuse for bad hands and no leg, this will eventually produce physical problems with the horse. The normal working posture of a horse is to carry 60% on the forehand and 40% on the hind. When you move up to much higher levels of (dressage) work, the weight shifts to 40% on the fore and 60% hind and this can only be achieved correctly with time. Draw reins used by a novice can put extreme pressure on poll, neck, back, stifles, hocks, tendons, to name but a few.
 
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I dont think it has any place in the correct and sympathetic training of the horse.
It may, however, help you win Olympic medals on a big, strong, powerful horse which has been over-bred to look attractive to the modern dressage judge's eye.

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Totally agree.
 
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