Aces_High
Well-Known Member
Always put a bit in the mouth if you cannot control the horse.
rope halters
- Thread starter caroline23
- Start date
maggiesmum
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be better to teach the horse some manners and respect for personal space than to ruin its mouth? And if a horse is going to bolt, barge or otherwise generally be unpleasant to lead I fail to see how using a bit is really going to stop it!
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Yes, it would, but some horses/situations require strong methods (I won't say desperate measures, but you can pencil that in as needed). When my 17.1hh 3 year old Trakhener stallion found out he could just p*ss off when he felt like it, even when being led with a stud chain over his nose, it was a simple, ordinary snaffle on a sliphead with a lunge rein passed through the nearside ring, over the poll and clipped to the offside ring that taught him it was no longer possible to do that. This method works by lifting the bit off the bars of the mouth and is unlikeley to damage the mouth for training for riding.
AengusOg
Well-Known Member
The reason a horse drags his handler is simply because he has not yet learned how to yield to halter pressure. Don't think 'control'; think 'training'.
A horse's natural response to pressure is to lean into it and, if the handler doesn't understand how to use pressure and release, the horse will learn to resist and evade. The more the handler tries to physically restrain the horse, the more the horse will resist, and the whole thing becomes a wrestling match which the horse will always win; so he must be taught, by use of light pressure and timely release, how to yield to and seek to keep himself free of pressure.
I use a Dually halter when starting young horses on the long-reins, before using the bit, but that's about all I find the Dually useful for. It can be handy for horses which barge forward, or for correcting attempts to run past when being led but, because it doesn't exert any more pressure on the poll than does an ordinary head collar, it is not universally effective for teaching horses to yield to pressure across the spectrum of groundwork exercises.
I have used the (dare I mention it?) Parelli-type rope halters, with and without allegedly strategically-placed knots, and have found them to be fairly effective in most situations. They bring pressure to bear separately on the poll or on the face, but not simultaneously.
I am regularly invited to work with difficult horses, with many different issues such as being bargey, rearing in hand, ripping away from the handler, dragging the handler about, refusing to load, unwillingness to stand for the farrier/vet/clippers/to be mounted...
I find that such horses simply have no concept of how to yield to pressure, having never been properly taught to do so, and have, through inept handling, become used to resisting/running through pressure. What begins as a natural response to pressure becomes, through lack of understanding on the part of the handler, a form of evasion. Instead of effective handling from the handler, and compliant response from the horse, it develops into a test of strength.
If a horse is restrained by pressure and, despite attempts to free itself from it, is held firmer, it will panic/rip away/rear/run through in direct response. It is not within the capabilities of a horse to over-ride its natural instinct when faced with fear/confusion/rough handling. Once its flight response activates, the horse will do whatever it must to make itself safe.
My first choice with such horses is the Be-Nice halter. Used correctly, not as a means of control but as a training aid in persuading a horse to respond favourably to light pressure, it is the most effective halter I have ever used.
I have heard and read many arguments against the use of the Be-Nice halter, with many claiming that horses become claustrophobic/learn to rear/panic; how it doesn't work with 'my horse', or how 'if someone tried one of those with my horse, they would end up on the moon'. Some claim that the Be-Nice halter causes pain and suffering, and that horses only behave in it because they are afraid not to. I say to such people that they don't understand the principles of pressure and release, and that they surely must be using the halter incorrectly.
The Be-Nice halter brings pressure to bear on the poll. Pressure on the poll causes the release of calming endorphins into the horse's system. Horses worked quietly and sensibly in a Be-Nice halter have a calmness about them which is helpful in their training. Used correctly, ie, to exert firm, gentle pressure, and in partnership with timely release, a pressure halter encourages the horse to seek to be pressure-free. The result is that he understands the cues, has no fear of being hurt or abused, and becomes habitually compliant and trustworthy.
As for putting a bit in a horse's mouth if you can't control it...or stud chains or Chifneys...that's a bit like lashing a pot of paint over the walls cos you can't be bothered to find a brush.
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aintgotnohay
Well-Known Member
well with your circumstances i dont blame you.but mine used to tank down to the field.i used a chifney and he respected that and now he just goes down in headcollar and lead rope.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Sorry, but I rather think that's a bit of tosh. Horses don't always respond the way they are supposed to, no matter how much you pressure - release, sometimes they are just plain ignorant and the tools used have to be effective.
AengusOg
Well-Known Member
If that reply was for me, I only have this to say to you...
I think you would find that horses respond very well to someone taking the time to train them properly, at appropriate times of their lives, and that they do respond very similarly to each other if handled consistently, compassionately, firmly, and with understanding. If they are handled by competent persons who are proactive in their management of them, rather than reactive, horses behave very well in the main.
Horses are never 'just plain ignorant'...but many people are.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Aengus óg, I do agree with you "if they are handled by competent persons", but not everyone is such, and sometimes people need extra help/equipment/methods as circumstances require, otherwise they will get hurt and horses will become dangerous.
AengusOg
Well-Known Member
That's why I am passionate about helping people understand how to use pressure and release techniques to handle horses. It's not rocket science. My replies may be long-winded, but horses can change for the better so quickly when handled well.
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
I am fortunate in that every horse I have will have manners within the first week or so of contact. But all of my horses are always led out with either a bit in their mouths or a nose chain. To me it's common sense.... Why have them out in a headcollar when something could happen and they could get away or hurt you or another horse? I find it hard leading a friends eventers around in a headcollar - out of choice I'd always have a bit in their mouths. It's something I have always done.
I also personally feel that a couple of short sharp come back heres when a horse has a bit in it's mouth will certainly give you more control than a headcollar.
maggiesmum
Well-Known Member
I have a home bred youngster who leads beautifully in just a headcollar because she was taught properly as a very young age, she hasn't been bitted as she has 2 wolf teeth, 1 of them blind and we are giving it a chance to erupt of its own accord, putting a bit into her mouth with these wolf teeth in place would be uncomfortable and could cause all manner of problems for the future.
I generally deal with project / remedial horses and have found time after time that meeting force with force only creates problems whereas spending time teaching ground manners before even attempting to deal with any other problems is time well spent and reaps benefits further down the line, I'm constantly amazed at how many people expect horses to load or stand still to be shod/clipped etc when they can't even lead them a short distance without difficulty.
Saying why use a head collar when something could happen is a bit dramatic...
I take it you wear a hat, gloves, steel toe cap boots and a body protector whilst your around horses just in case something happens?
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
No I am not leading them in steelies, hats, gloves nor a body protector.
When you are hand grazing 2yr olds and 3yr olds after exercise when there is a mixture of colts and fillies, it would be highly stupid in my mind to have them in a headcollar. All the horses are very well mannered and good in the stable and when being led BUT they all have a bit in their mouths. Can you imagine the carnage if all the horses in the pre-parade ring on a racecourse were in headcollars!!!! I am not talking about riding school ponies. Even if I was if there was one which was keen to be led in from the field and was being led by someone who was novicey I would put a bit in it's mouth.
Wolf teeth or not - mine have them taken out before they are broken if they are coming through and if they're not through enough they still have a bit in their mouths as I am not "good" enough to break yearlings in and ride them away in a headcollar
maggiesmum
Well-Known Member
No I am not leading them in steelies, hats, gloves nor a body protector.
When you are hand grazing 2yr olds and 3yr olds after exercise when there is a mixture of colts and fillies, it would be highly stupid in my mind to have them in a headcollar. All the horses are very well mannered and good in the stable and when being led BUT they all have a bit in their mouths. Can you imagine the carnage if all the horses in the pre-parade ring on a racecourse were in headcollars!!!! I am not talking about riding school ponies. Even if I was if there was one which was keen to be led in from the field and was being led by someone who was novicey I would put a bit in it's mouth.
Wolf teeth or not - mine have them taken out before they are broken if they are coming through and if they're not through enough they still have a bit in their mouths as I am not "good" enough to break yearlings in and ride them away in a headcollar
Believe it or not even racehorses can be taught manners, I'm not talking about riding school ponies either!
I most definitly agree that bits/chifneys should be used in the parade ring (that rule is there for a reason!) however this thread wasn't started to discuss the specific needs of fit corned up racers high on adrenaline immediately before a race, the OP started the discussion asking for help with her cob who's drags her when the desire takes him.
Clearly its one of those situations where we have to agree to disagree.
caroline23
Well-Known Member
Said horse, as a 2/3 yr old was lead in a chifney with his mouth tied shut as he learnt he could stomp over her, so leading in a bridle is a no-go, an RA regularly comes to my new yard so he is booked in for a clinic with her but its not until december
he doesnt bolt off (used to but have stopped this) just dragging for grass, and this is only on some days, others he can be on a long rope coming in nicely, think i may try a rope halter as he doesnt seem to like the nose pressure so maybe poll pressure will be easier for him
he doesnt bolt off (used to but have stopped this) just dragging for grass, and this is only on some days, others he can be on a long rope coming in nicely, think i may try a rope halter as he doesnt seem to like the nose pressure so maybe poll pressure will be easier for him
maggiesmum
Well-Known Member
If you watch him very carefully you'll be able to catch the moment where he makes the decision to head for the grass, if you can stop him at that point you'll stand a much better chance, and someone else said it earlier but if you can get and keep his attention he's less likely to head for the grass too, it takes a bit of practise as its mentally tiring for them to pay attention all the time - bit like nursery children in school but he'll get it if you keep at it.