Rough handling of someone's horse wwyd?

[Gingerwitch]

Groom who only used to do the odd say here and there is now doing alot more days. She is not liked by many of the horses is she cannot catch them, does not have a nice aura about her but tells all the owners how much she loves your horses, how sweet they are etc. It's all a little.too.gushing for me. Today she was shouting at the horse and literally dragging them behind her in a pretty aggressive stance, they were grotto g to keep up with her, head down and pulling.them.along.
I have 4 on fulll livery. And love this yard even though it is a good distance from.me.
So would you speak up and run risk of having your horses picked on.
Speak with yard owner and ask for her to not be allowed to handle your horses - but this could put yard owner in an or else situation so could be asked to.leave
Or say nothing and hope that others including yard staff speak.up. another alternative is I drop off 7 day down to 5 and book them.on weekend.livery if.i know she is not working.

 

[Bernster]

I find these situations really tricky as yes you def should do something but in reality can you change/improve things? If it’s an ongoing issue and does impact welfare, then I would raise it. Prob to yard manager/owner direct and in a constructive way. They may not realise?

 

[meleeka]

if you’ve seen this regularly I think I’d make other arrangements for the day’s she’s working and tell the YO why. Do other people share your views? If you can gain some support from others it would come across better.

 

[Roxylola]

I'd have to speak to whoever is responsible for the running of the yard. I wouldnt say they weren't to handle my horses but I'd raise concerns about how rough the groom is and possibly say id prefer they didnt have much to do with my horses if possible.
You might give the yard staff courage to speak up if they are then asked about the groom

 

[Meowy Catkin]

In my case it was the Yard Manager who was aggressive towards the horses. The YO wasn't involved in the yard so I had no-one to go to about the situation. I found a new yard for mine and moved quickly. I also told the owner of the horse who had been kicked in the guts by the YM what happened. They didn't move their horse and I was later told that it had 'mysteriously' fractured its skull some time after I had left.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I would not want my horse to be handled badly or aggressively. I am my horses voice, so yes, I would speak to the YO. I'd be surprised if the YO hadn't seen the grooms behaviour already.
If the YO condones it by doing nothing, then I'd get my horses out quickly.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Sorry double post. Flipping pop up is making it hard to post.



I would not want my horse to be handled badly or aggressively. I am my horses voice, so yes, I would speak to the YO. I'd be surprised if the YO hadn't seen the grooms behaviour already.
If the YO condones it by doing nothing, I'd move my horse out quickly.

 

[LEC]

Unfortunately you need to be proactive because simple things quickly escalate with horses on the ground. We have someone at our yard and the mares hate him as he is really erratic and they can't deal with it. He also ramps up the pressure far too quickly which then makes them blow. He is well meaning but on the spectrum so doesn't understand the impact he has on horses. If they dealt with just him for a month they would be awful to deal with.

 

[9tails]

I wouldn't allow anybody aggressive to handle my horse, so I would be telling the YO straight away. That sort of handling soon turns a horse headshy and wary. I see it every day with "Stand still!" *yank* school of horsemanship. One owner shanked the horse four times for taking one step forward, one for the forward step then three more for throwing its head up. He was shouted at during the ordeal too.

 

[maya2008]

You leaving with 4 horses would be a huge loss of income for your YO. Say what you saw, if necessary video any further occurrences you see. You should be accommodated. Will anyone else speak up also? Better if a few of you go to YO separately.

 

[Gingerwitch]

See the problem I have is that I rely on the yard due to my work, I can be in Scotland one day and Cornwall the next. To find 4 full livery places in one go is going to be difficult. Speaking up could end up with worse treatment of your own.... It's horrid x

 

[Meowy Catkin]

She is not liked by many of the horses is she cannot catch them

I decided that this was worth singling out.

The yard I left... the first sign that something was wrong, was when the staff and YM couldn't catch my mare.

 

[Gingerwitch]

You leaving with 4 horses would be a huge loss of income for your YO. Say what you saw, if necessary video any further occurrences you see. You should be accommodated. Will anyone else speak up also? Better if a few of you go to YO separately.

Knowing the yard owner as I do, I am probably better having an can you help conversation. See she is crafty which is why she is so fawning over the horses when others are about. She knows I am watching.... As she will pretend the horse was being silly it was only a leaf when you know darn well she has just elbowed it in the head or neck

 

[ihatework]

I think you can’t not say anything, but it’s how you approach it that will optimise you chances of success.

Id do it quietly out of earshot if anyone else, to the YO/YM, in a non confrontational way. Say you have your concerns about how X is handling your horses, could YO oversee this and if possible limit how much they do with your horses. But do it with the undertone that you appreciate how difficult it is for yards to get staff etc

 

[Gingerwitch]

I decided that this was worth singling out.

The yard I left... the first sign that something was wrong, was when the staff and YM couldn't catch my mare.

Thanks, it is only the one person. So because mine are well behaved currently she is ending up handling mine more because she can't catch others. It's the one time I want mine to be difficult to catch lol x

 

[Asha]

You are paying for a service which you are not happy with. You are entitled to bring this up with the person who your contract is with. Just do it. No way would i pay for something im unhappy with.

 

[9tails]

Thanks, it is only the one person. So because mine are well behaved currently she is ending up handling mine more because she can't catch others. It's the one time I want mine to be difficult to catch lol x

The problem with becoming hard to catch is that they will get worse treatment when she does catch them because she doesn't have a hold of her temper or ego. She's really not in the right job.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think that if you can arrange it with the YO/YM that this groom doesn't handle your horses then that would be an ideal solution. If you can work that by doing 5 day livery then that might be a friction free way to handle it.

You are right to be concerned though.

 

[Leandy]

I would have a frank discussion with the yard manager. Presumably you trust them if you have four on full livery there. I would expect them to take it very seriously if the behaviour is so bad as to be abusive/negligent (and not just clumsly inexperience) as you say. I would be careful to point out that it is not just what I have seen but other evidence I'm concerned about. A number of horses suddenly becoming difficult to catch for one person in particular is them shouting loud and clear that they are not comfortable with her. How the yard manager deals with it is their business but I would expect the issue to be stopped in its tracks whether the staff member is let go, closely supervised and trained, put on duties not involving handling the horses or whatever. If it wasn't sorted it is the sort of management issue that would have me looking for another yard pronto.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

You are paying for a service don't forget. There is no way I would allow anyone like that to deal with my horses. A polite but frank conversation with the YO and ask for someone else to deal with your horses because you have witnessed some very aggressive behaviour towards the horses by that individual. I bet once it has been flagged to the YO, they'll take note and watch and you're not going to be the only one who feels this way I am sure. I watched a groom belt a horse around the head with a leadrope when it was bouncing around being led to the field, I was new to the yard but went and knocked on the YO's front door and it turned out to be the YO's pride and joy! Groom was sacked on the spot, which im afraid with other reports of what she'd been up to when the YO wasnt about (young girls all too terrified to speak up), she deserved not to be working anywhere near to horses.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I don't think you have any alternative but to bring this to the attention of the YO. You will know the best way to approach the conversation, as you know the YO and have a long standing relationship with the yard but I do think that you need to make it clear that you are not paying for poor service from the yard and expect your horses to be dealt with appropriately.

 

[Winters100]

Poor you, a horrid situation. Could you speak to the YO in a very calm way and say that you don't want this groom handling your horses, and can drop down to only 5 days FL if this helps? I am pretty sure that as a good client YO will accommodate you, and the risk of losing a good client may make YO keep a closer eye on what is happening.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Groom who only used to do the odd say here and there is now doing alot more days. She is not liked by many of the horses is she cannot catch them, does not have a nice aura about her but tells all the owners how much she loves your horses, how sweet they are etc. It's all a little.too.gushing for me. Today she was shouting at the horse and literally dragging them behind her in a pretty aggressive stance, they were grotto g to keep up with her, head down and pulling.them.along.
I have 4 on fulll livery. And love this yard even though it is a good distance from.me.
So would you speak up and run risk of having your horses picked on.
Speak with yard owner and ask for her to not be allowed to handle your horses - but this could put yard owner in an or else situation so could be asked to.leave
Or say nothing and hope that others including yard staff speak.up. another alternative is I drop off 7 day down to 5 and book them.on weekend.livery if.i know she is not working.

I really feel for you gingerwitch as I have been in a similar situation. The junior groom was very aggressive when she even bothered to turn up for work, hit her loan horse, which was on livery, about the head with a whip, as it swooshed it tail at a fly when she was trying to mount, hit one of the horses on box rest about the head with headcollar and lead rope as it dared not step back from door when she approached, hit another livery horse in face with lead rope as it put her head down to eat when she stopped to talk, my horse became very headshy and I had people come up to me and ask why is blah blah so rough with your horse when she is so easy to handle.
I went to yard owner and asked for private word, all fine I thought until several days later when yard owner screamed at me across the yard that I was bare faced liar who could have had her groom arrested for my false accusations. I asked how were they false when multiple people had seen it and one had happened underneath the cctv camera. The next day she said could we let it lie and she would ensure head groom woukd only handle my horse and could I please not discuss incidences with anyone else. Clearly she had viewed cctv. Refused to sack groom as she struggled to get and keep staff as it was.
I said fine by me and on the down low looked for another yard and left several months later.
No more issues with my horse being head shy and never looked back. Worst yard I have been on and would rather be horseless than keep a horse there.
So my advice would be put up and keep your head down unless you are prepared for a massive fallout and possibly have to move yards. It may be that for some reason this groom is very liked by other liveries or the yard owner and they would rather keep her over you if they struggle to find staff. However if you know there have been reported issues with this groom and yard owner would rather keep liveries happy and lose the groom then you must say something. Not overly helpful I know but after my last incident I would rather put and leave than go though what I went through again. Yard owners only seem to take note when there is an exodus of liveries

 

[lme]

I would have a quiet word with the yard owner and ask that this particular groom not handle your horses unsupervised. If you have 4 horses on full livery and are generally not a difficult client you are worth more to your yard owner than a freelance groom who isn’t good with horses.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think you must speak to however runs the yard .
you need to be as professional as you would be at work .
Clear and dated examples of what you have seen .

 

[canteron]

So, if you want the situation resolved but keep the horses you need to use all your tact.

Basically the person needs closer supervision / more training / sacking - all of which would suggest the yard owner isn’t at the top of their game if they are letting this develop. Has the YO they got problems which are affecting their ability to run a good yard?
I would initially try a ‘how are you and what can I do to help solve this’ approach?
But I would also have a back up plan just in case!

 

[shamrock2021]

Most yard owners are aware of problems like that but they just turn a blind eye. I now a person who complained someone being rough with her horse . She was kicked out of the yard.

 

[Red-1]

I absolutely would speak with the YO/YM about this.

Years ago I had a horse who was doing well, had him a couple of years already, a new member of staff came and the horse became nervous in the stable. I was suspicious of the groom, spoke with YM, she spoke with groom and they came back to me to tell me that the horse was being silly and was scared of the lady's rubber gloves.

Many horses wouldn't be caught by her. She was there for years and years, was very presentable on the surface, portrayed a kind and educated person, had an interest in natural horsemanship.

Meanwhile, we got a CCTV system, that had a screen in the kitchen, but it was there in case of burglaries, not as a supervision aid, so it was never watched back as we didn't have any burglaries...

Until...

One day said groom thought she was alone on the premises. She set about a poor horse in a sickening fashion. I am talking hitting about the head, reversing into a wall and also kicking. She kicked its chest and back leg. She led it out to the yard, tied it up, took some steps away then ran at it and almost kicked its back legs from under it. There was a person who had not actually left and saw this in the kitchen, obviously she went down and stopped her, and reported it to YM.

The horse had not done anything wrong.

I saw the video later. No wonder my horse hadn't wanted to be near her. The CCTV had a month or so on memory, it was watched, this was not confined to one occasion or one horse.

The worst of it was, she didn't seem to realise just how wrong this was.

She was sacked. But, I would have preferred her to be taken to court for animal cruelty.

So, yes, I absolutely would say something. I would move my horse if necessary. I wonder if bad tempered, self entitled people with unresolved anger issues are as rare as we believe?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That's horrific Red-1.

 

[9tails]

I wonder if bad tempered, self entitled people with unresolved anger issues are as rare as we believe?

Firstly, Holy S*** regarding the incidents caught on CCTV. But if she didn't seem to realise how wrong it was, why did she wait until the yard was empty to dole out abuse?

I think there are a lot of sociopaths as well as a smattering of psychopaths that are drawn into the horse world because their victims can't speak.