Routines - good thing or bad?

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smirnoff_ice

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I've heard a lot of people talk about one of the main benefits of full livery being that the horses all have a strict routine.

However, whenever i've been to a zoo/safari park, the animals of higher intelligence (whales, dolphins, primates, etc.) are fed at random times each day as a form of environmental enrichment.
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Mine are in, out and fed at pretty much the same time every day/night during the winter, but in the summer they're done as and when we feel like - no routine at all.

So, is a strict routine good for the horse or is it boring? I'm not saying it's harmful in any way, but maybe boring?? And is this something that causes horses with vices to increase the frequency of their vice at feed times?

What do you think?

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Personally, and having just moved yards, I would say that a routine is the best thing that a horse can have. They are creatures of habit and like to know what is happening when.

IMO a good basic routine (not necessarily a 'strict' one) is the foundation for a happy horse.
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when linx comes in at night he is in until the weather is suitable for him to go back out 24/7, he likes to know that he will come in have his feet washed etc, maybe go in the school then have his tea & hay. Linx is given a large net each night + 1/2 a net on weekends & it is never out by the morning

he is normally put out @ 7am & brought in @ 6:30/7pm, if he is in by 6:30 i will lunge for 15/20mins then put him to bed @ 7, if im running late i will just put him in.

on weekend this is changed to i will be there by 8am latest & he will be prepped for ridden work or turned out. however i do adjust his hay to account for me going up later.

 
Lets make it clear.Horses are domesticated, animals in a zoo are not. Therefore you cannot compare their stress with that of the horse.
Hoses need to have their feeding kept as close as possible to nature therefore high fibre trickcle feeding.
They do like the security of a loose routine.
My competition horses get two feeds a day with adlib haylage as well as social turn out [ in pairs] and are well exercised.
Feeding is done between 7.30 and 8am and 6 to 6.30 pm they have enormous haynet the rest of the time as well of interaction with their owners , my groom and me. Groming is important i feel to.
All the horses on my yard are relaxed and at feed time there is no feeding stress. I have no box walkers , weavers or windsuckers. So on that evidence i would say routine is a god thing.
 
I work shifts 9including full nights) so it is very difficult to have an exact routine with mine.
They live as naturally as possible, out 24hrs during the Summer, unless the weather is particularly bad and in through the night in Winter.

I think that within reason, if you have a strict routine set down to the minute, then horses will get stressed if you do not do whatever they are used to at whatever time whereas if there is a bit of flexibility, they don't fret. Mine don't anyway!!
 
Stable kept horses definitely should be in a good routine IMO. My friend's BF is head farrier of the King's Troop, they are all in stalls 24/7 except for exercise and my friend has never seen horses happier and not one horse has a vice! Their routine is so strict that they know what's going to happen.

When my yard's open all livery will include their horse being fed at 6am, so all the horses are fed at the same time.
 
Actually, irishdraught, you make a really good point.

A good basic routine is a starting point for my horses and is a very good thing. That said, they do not get ridden at the same time every day, neither do they always get brought in at the same time. Sometimes I work til 4.30 and sometimes until 7 - so strict is not possible

I think if you are on military precision timetable things could get stressed if you have to step away from it.

Therefore whilst basic routine is good, IMO strict routine may not be.
 
Agree that a basic routine is a good thing, though I'm sure that the stricter you make it the harder it is for the horse to cope when something changes slightly. For their digestive systems a rough feeding routine is important though, the zoo animals which have random feeding are usually omnivorous or carnivorous and therefore designed to cope with a bit of feast/famine better than horses.
 
Mine live out all year, they dont have a routine in terms of times they are brought in etc, but they are only brought in to be fed/groomed or ridden.

However, although they aent brought in at the same time every day, they DO go through the same routine when they come in. So they know what will happen once they come in.

They know they are going to be fed about 5 mins after they come in, cue heads looking over door, neither of them have any vices or display any stress or bad behaviour, all the horses at our yard come in at different times.
Not one of them has any stable vices, including the ones that live in overnight.

The only horse that DOES constantly stand at the gate is the one whose owner religiously bings her in every night at the same time, then doesnt do it fo a while, then starts it again. IMO that is far more stressful to a horse than having the loose routine I have with mine.

Mine KNOW I will be up there every day, and they are never standing by the gate waiting for me, so I know they arent going to be standing stressing banging to be in, but at the sametime as soon as they see me they know its time to come in so they come over, I think they are happy, they give me no reason to think they arent.

If they were living in, I would insist on having all hoses fed andturned out at the same time though, because IMO THAT is what stresses horses out.
 
firstly, you can't compare horses to animals of higher intelligence such as dolphins, primates etc. not only are horses much less clever, they are also prey animals, which the others aren't. predators' digestive systems are designed to cope with food whenever it comes, without any problems. this can include not eating for days in the case of lions etc, then gorging completely. horses are designed for trickle feeding, to find their feed all the time. we attempt to mimic this by having routines and feeding at the same time every day, to help prevent colic etc. horses love routines, they make them feel safer, and are much better for their general wellbeing.
 
the horses on my livery yard don't have a strict routine. They come in at night in winter about 5ish but as soon as it warms up some stay out 24/7 some come in. Some have a mix of in or out which ever suits the owner. Some have breakfasts and some don't - again depending on what suits. I have found that a strict routine causes serious problems when I am competing or away as I have to change the routine and that can be seriously stressy. That said my horses all have ad lib hay or good grass and daily turnout - regardless of the weather. Non of them stand at the gate waiting to come in for hours on end. And all of them will happily stand in in the morning if they are waiting to be ridden, shod or have something else done. They need to become used to being in and out at odd times, with or without companions just in case they have to be box rested or kept in on their own for a reason. I believe a strict routine makes a rod for the owners back.

I feed all the horses on the yard in the morning - but if one of my liveries comes up early they put the feeds in - so basically first on the yard feeds every horse. I also turn out every horse so I don't have any in hanging around waiting for owners who have decided to have a lie in - but I turn out about 8.30 weekdays and 9.30 weekends as I see no point in getting the horses out really early.
 
I wasn't trying to say that horses are like dolphins and chimps, but i just wanted to compare why different husbandry methods can be seen as environmental enrichment in one way, but not in another. Just pondering really!

At our yard there are 11 stables (but only 7 horses (6 different owners) at the mo) - my 2 are in a field on their own, the other 5 go out together - mainly because we've got time to walk to the further away fields (grassy) in the mornings and the other owners dont. These 5 will start waiting around the gate at about 3-4pm (depending on the weather), but mine never do (more grass in our field, so they're happy to stay out).

In the summer, ours live out a lot, and are brought in at least once a day to be groomed and ridden - these times will vary though.

All of the owners come at different times am and pm, some horses have breakfast, most dont. All are brought in at different times and all are given hard feed at different times. None of them bother to take any notice if another one is fed infront of them. And none of them have EVER displayed any stereotypical behaviours/vices.

As long as the horses are happy, that's all that matters. And whatever works for you is fine. I'm in no way saying that routines are detrimental to the horse (although as said previously, they can be if the owner suddenly changes it).
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I think a good routine is beneficial so that the horse knows when he has food and is not wondering or stressing where it is, knows whether he is stabled or left out etc. But I don't like these strict routines where the horse becomes so institutionalised that they are getting stressed and 'waiting' if you dare be 5 mins late arriving to bring in etc.
I have a routine but that is because it ties in with my life too, so my boy comes in at night and goes out early in the morning. So in the winter that will be in the dark and I don't turn up at exactly 6pm every night...sometimes it is later if I get held up at work etc. But he seems to know that it does not matter and just carries on eating until I show up with his tea bucket...he never hangs around waiting or getting stressed...and the same in the morning - he just keeps dozing or eating hay until I show up. Makes my life easier and him more relaxed too.
But they are all different!
 
I think routine is quite a bad thing. I think horses possibly get MORE stressed with a strict routine as they know when their feed is due etc. and get worked up before it. Although I guess that might happen for longer if they don't know when they'd get fed.

I dont have a strict routine. Mine live out 24/7 except for an old shetland who comes in at night. I always feed anytime before 9.30am and as it gets dark (although sometimes it can be as late as 9pm-ish if we're back late from a show for example). So they're fed around a certain time but its not set in stone. They're ridden anytime.
 
My lot are out at the moment and not doing any work, when they are in and working I do have a routine but it is not down to the second!

I always make sure that they have enough haylege so they dont get stressed about there meal times and then they get mucked out and have bucket feeds in the morning and night. They also get balls with high fibre nuts in etc....

they used to be in a large pen split in to two, my sisters cob on one side, milly on the other and the shetland went in wherever side it wanted. they could groom each other so they wasnt just thinking of food all the time!

sometimes I will get there very early sometimes a bit late, but they never seem to worry or stress because they will still have haylege left.

There was a lady on the old yard who did everything to the minute and if she was ever late it would be weaving in the stable or at the field gate!
 
Not sure really, mine gets done at different times of day, not drasticlly, always done between 7.30 and 9 in the morning and then goes in for bed between 5 and 6, he doesn't seem to mind. Interestingly he knows my routine for mucking out and knows that when the water buckets go in it's nearlly time for bed and tea and starts whinnying and neighing!!
 
i was always told that hard feeds should be given at the same time every day because the good bacteria get ready for the feed, and start dying off if it isn't forthcoming, which can cause colic. this is the main reason i try to stick to a routine for feed times.
as regards riding times, turnout times etc, i'm much more flexible.
competition horses have hugely varying schedules, and most of them cope really well with it. e.g. showjumpers jumping at 10pm etc at big shows.
 
The routine at our yard is morning feed at 5.30am with hay, turnout at 7am, bring in at 3.3-pm and evening feed at 4.30pm. Final checks at 10pm.

I prefer Full Livery as it provides far more of a routine that I can provide.

Tyler has settled extremely well into it and I have often found that if I am riding him around the time he is due to get fed he becomes very grumpy and eager to get back to his stable
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I do worry that he will become over-stressed at any deviation from routine, but I have found it over all to be beneficial
 
I think if a horse is kept indoors at all then yes, routine is very important.

However, the horse that lives out with mates and has plenty of forage is not going too worry much about when a bucket of hard feed is coming. (Mine don't anyway) They don't hang around waiting, they only come down when I arrive at the yard and sometimes even then they are in no great rush.

I just re-read that and I feel like I sound like some kind of bunny hugger. That isn't my intention. It is just that a stabled horse does have limited forage, exercise, interaction with other horses and stimulation. They strongly rely on their carer and timing is very important.
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[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't trying to say that horses are like dolphins and chimps, but i just wanted to compare why different husbandry methods can be seen as environmental enrichment in one way, but not in another. Just pondering really!

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It isn't about "higher" or more intelligent or even domestication, it's about physiology and how the horse functions, both individually and in society.

Horses are grazers, not just herbivores. As kerreli said they are designed to have virtually constant access to forage, free movement, strict routine and and relatively consistent activity levels. Their social organisation has little to do with food (at least in the literal sense, quite a bit to do with movement, a great deal to do with protection and security and much to do with a very stable society. This is quite unlike hunters, scavengers, and even herbivores that have to limited access to resources.

I've had the opportunity to observe many groups of young and breeding animals who live about as natural lives as possible for domestic horses. It has amazed me what regimented lives they live left to their own devices! It's not necessarily about strict time - that's a human thing - but they have very set daily routines, although they are often conditional on weather/season (for example, the morning nap takes place later and maybe in a different spot in winter), outside influence (there may be less eating during a period of disturbance but more later to make up). Also, horses are not diurnal - they work on a 24 hour schedule - so a great deal of their day we don't even see.

So horses are built for routine. Which doesn't mean things have to happen at exactly the same time or even in the same order, although most people find it easier to stick to a routine if it's time oriented. I think it's not a bad thing for horses to learn to adapt to living with people but it must always be remembered it's adaptation and therefore stressful, not what's technically best for the horse. And big stressors like feeding in different orders, constantly changing social orders etc. should be avoided.

If horses are going to show, say, I think it is important to decide which parts of the routine are going to be kept consistent and which are up for adaptation. Different horses can cope more easily with different things. Obviously for show horses feeding cannot always be at the same time, due to class times, shipping schedules etc, but this can make it all the more essential they are fed the same feed in the same way in the same routine at home or away.

As in all areas to do with horses we can *want* things to work a certain way all we want but horses just keep on being horses, working the way they've always worked. It's far easier to accept this and moderate it to our needs than ignore it outright.
 
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