RS horses and use of the crop - how much is too much?

[tetij]

Hi all,

I have recently started riding lessons again after a break at a local RS (Covid-allowing!). Just simple flatwork and working on seat at the moment. As RS horses go they are relatively responsive however we are still told to use the whip at intervals as a 'reminder' if horse is not responding to leg aids. I feel fine about giving an occasional tap, but less OK if said horse requires continuous use of the crop, i.e. regular smacking in the trot every two or three steps as otherwise will just fall back into walk.

In recent years most of my riding has been hacking out on a friend's very responsive horses who only need voice aids (if that) so this just feels a bit rubbish really. I do understand that one tap/light smack is preferable to constant nagging if it works and the horse actually moves forward, but if it doesn't and the horse continues to fall back into walk, then it just feels horrible and I don't enjoy the lesson - and still feel like I'm nagging but just with the crop instead of my legs!

Not sure what I'm asking really - I suppose is it OK for the instructor to be telling me to use the crop at such regular intervals? Or am I just being soft? He has said that I sit down in the saddle too heavily which blocks the horse's movement, so I've been working on establishing a lighter seat by engaging my core and adjusting my lower leg position.

I will try and talk to the instructor about it next time I have a lesson but wanted to gauge thoughts on here too. Apart from this issue, I get a lot out of the lessons and feel like I'm making progress.

Thanks in advance

 

[Lois Lame]

It sounds to me like you need a more forward-going horse.

Does your instructor know that you've been riding your friend's horses who are very responsive?

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Absolutely hate the overuse of crops in riding schools. Before I left the UK, I went to watch someone’s granddaughter ride, at a local riding school open day (council registered, not BHS) I was shocked at the quality of teaching, full on constant pony club kicks and whipping of about four cracks at a time. Everyone had been taught the same.

 

[stormox]

Is the instructor qualified? Is school regularly BHS inspected and registered? If not, find another riding school.
Have you tried several horses there?

 

[Mule]

I wouldn't like it either. I'd ask for more forward going horses or maybe see if you can find another school. The contant kicking is an indicator that the horses aren't very well trained.

Constant use of the crop is pointless anyway because it teaches the horse to ignore it. They eventually stop responding like they do with constant leg aids. That doesn't mean they don't feel it though, they just dont know how to respond to it.

 

[Wizpop]

Very sad to read this. If that horse was your own horse, a good instructor would be teaching you how to get him more responsive to aids without the constant need for hitting with the whip. Just really bad for horse. People “learning” totally the wrong way- whilst the horse is suffering as a mule in a manger says.

 

[soloequestrian]

If a horse needs that much 'persuasion' to go forwards I'd suggest that there is something acting in the opposite direction that means it's willing to take the discomfort of repeated aids over the discomfort caused by moving - most likely candidate is an uncomfortable saddle. I've taught in riding schools and never had a horse this unwilling to move unless there was something wrong (which would then have been checked).

 

[AmyMay]

No horse should need that much persuasion to move forward and if a rider is heavily reliant on a ‘whip’ then there’s an issue with either rider or horse.

 

[meleeka]

I saw a friends teenage child at a show in the summer riding a RS cob and was horrified at the way she was riding if. The crop was used very frequently, along with big pony club kicks and that was even when the pony looked to be fairly forward going. I would have said this person was kind and compassionate so can only assume she’d been taught this way. She didn’t look as if she was enjoying herself at all.

I’d ask for a more forward going horse or look for a different riding school.

 

[Amun]

We have a few stubborn horses in a riding school I go to. If nothing else works, we can use a light tap occasionally. Instructors wouldn't let anyone to use the crop with force or continuously. To be honest I can't imagine that I could possibly enjoy a lesson like that even if instructor permitted such a behaviour.

 

[Billyandme]

Due to the loss of my own horse and a broken ankle I am desperate to get back in the saddle. I was recommended a school 30 minutes away from home. I explained my scenario to them in detail. 30 plus years experience of horse ownership blah blah blah. Just needing something quiet to get back on and get going. The poor little mare I was given would only stumble into trot if the instructor cracked a lunge whip at her. Needless to say I didn't go back and am still trying to find somewhere to ride.

 

[tetij]

Thanks everyone for confirming my suspicions! I do feel horrible about it. There does seem to be a culture of this in almost every RS I've ridden in so it doesn't give me much hope for finding a better one. Not sure if it's a recent thing or whether this has always been the case.

From what I've experienced, they tend to swap you onto another horse halfway through the lesson - I think so that you can get experience riding different horses. One of the horses is more responsive than others and don't require anything other than a light tap behind the leg, and it's mainly him that I've been riding, which is fine. It was only for the last few lessons that I was swapped onto two other ponies who were less forward and hence encouraged to use the crop. The school is BHS accredited yes. I'll ask for either my 'usual' horse or another more forward horse next time and see how it goes. It's a small yard and they don't have that many horses to choose from.

@Lois Lame - he knows I've been riding non-RS horses. I'm going to raise it with him at my next lesson as I feel very uncomfortable about it and would like to know what other solutions he has! I'm totally happy to accept that it's my riding (in)ability that's preventing the horse from going forward - would just like some more constructive comments (which he has given me, to be clear) rather than being told to use the whip more.

 

[tetij]

If a horse needs that much 'persuasion' to go forwards I'd suggest that there is something acting in the opposite direction that means it's willing to take the discomfort of repeated aids over the discomfort caused by moving - most likely candidate is an uncomfortable saddle. I've taught in riding schools and never had a horse this unwilling to move unless there was something wrong (which would then have been checked).

Good point! I assumed it was my seat, hadn't thought about the saddle. I'll try and find out how regularly they get checked.

 

[SJJR]

I feel very sorry for this and many other riding school horses. How many riders each day does the poor horse carry, 5/6 days per week, and likely treated like this on each lesson. I would find somewhere else and explain to current RS exactly why you are not returning.

 

[Skib]

I had the same problem when learning to ride at a BHS RS. I was much caned as a child and in those early days of learning I didnt use my whip at all. It is an irony that after my first fall (caused by canter before I had learned how to canter) the bullying RI wrote in the accident book that I had repeatedly whipped my horse. Other pupils perhaps but not me madam!
Rashid interestingly observed the reluctance of English women to use a whip and suggested we touch it to our boot.

 

[welshpony216]

my friends horse is very unresponsive. In my opinion, one smack, after repeated leg aids. Try 3 times with leg aids, then use the crop. Once the horse moves forward, praise him and then either do something at a slower gait or quite for the day. Anything more then that is a little excessive. I used to ride in the AEL where people would get severely penalized for using the crop more than 2ish times. I have found either use this riding time to get your legs really strong and squeeze, or I hit my leg with the crop-the sound gets them going quite well. Don't ever pony club kick, that half second where you take your legs off the horses side, is just a reward for not listening.

 

[welshpony216]

*by smack I mean a furm but never hard tap

 

[Cutgrass]

I've ridden at an RS round here before I got most recent share and crops were never used routinely. In the odd lesson I saw a rider given one to carry but I never used one or saw anyone else use one. The instructors focused on consistency and praise, as well as making the lessons fun, to keep the ponies moving forward.

 

[Morgan123]

I agree with the other posters re: this being v sad but thought I'd add another thought. Definitely talk to the instructor - I used to teach at an RS (I was much too young to really know what I was doing properly, makes me cringe now, but anyway) - when you are teaching and have a "lazy" horse, you also want the client to have a good lesson, so it's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking "well the horse knows what it's meant ot be doing, and I need the person to have an interesting lesson i.e. do a decent amount of trotting and cantering, so the horse will have to get on with it" - it made me uncomfortable but it sort of seemed like needs must, everyone else does it, etc. Makes me sad in hindsight (at the time, too! I did know it was wrong!).

If someone had said to me that they were more interested in the horse being responsive and working on other things - for example perhaps getting the horse engaged a bit more in walk before moving on, or whatever, then I would have been hugely relieved and seen that as a huge plus for a) imprvoing my teaching, b) the horse and c) the client.

So yeh. obviously they might think differently but def try and have that chat if you can. Good on you for questioning what you know to be wrong. And good luck!