RSPCA: End this cruelty to animal owners

Megan_T said:
Lol - that has NOTHING to do with this case though does it?

I'm a little confused here.... I can see why that case would annoy people. But the debate here seems to be that some people think these ponies weren't being neglected.. intentionally or otherwise. That's what we're discussing.
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My only point with this is that they get it wrong, it nearly cost this man his life too. Not through suicide but through ill health brought on my stress.
 
sussexbythesea said:
Bexwarren - For one who apparently has no actual knowledge of this case except through third parties you are exceptionally vociferous on defending this man. I find that bizarre given the actual pictures posted on the forum of which none could have occurred without long term neglect. What sort of evidence would you be happy with?

I think you will find that many people who neglect or abuse their animals are elderly, mentally ill or socially deprived - this should not stop action to prevent further suffering to the animals which should be as swift as possible. Peoples circumstances would be taken into account when deciding what if any enforcement action is later taken - usually there is a published Policy with actions ranging from education, verbal or written warnings right through to prosecution. These decisions will be based on the severity of the offence, the mitigating factors such as mental health (which they (the RSPCA) would most likely get advice on from an expert) and whether it is in the public interest to pursue a case. If ultimately it is taken to prosecution the Court will also take into account such facts when sentencing.

Enough of you kicked up a stink when it took too long for Spud and Carrot to be dealt with.

Having carried out enforcement in an environmental context I can tell you that many people who commit what are apparently minor offences in many peoples eyes have actually many convictions for other things such as GBH, theft, firearms and many other violent offences.
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Firstly I can guarantee you that I defanety do not know this person. We live at opposite ends of the country (an end I havent even visited). I'm not saying he was innocent I'm saying all the facts need to be known before we accuse someone (who now cant defend himself) of something so emotive.

Are most of the ppl that abuse animals the old or mentally ill? Or is that the ones they choose to punish with prosecution? I say this because the abuse that is quite apparent in my area is from the people that are not mentally ill (even though you could argue that their cruelty is an illness).

Your right, i'm sure the rspca do have a published policy but do they follow it? They are bringing more and more prosecutions every year, is this because ppl are getting crueler? or because they are discovering more cruelty or just simply because they prefer this route?

I'm not sure which expert they consulted about this guys mental health but I dont advise anyone uses him.
 
cptrayes said:
Having said that, I think that there is no place for an animal charity to have become the de facto animal crime police in this country. It does not sit well with me that we use public charitable donations to pursue animal crime. My personal opinion is that animal crime should be prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service, not a charity.
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Completly agree with this.
 
Caldbeck pony probe death man: Family to sue RSPCA
By Anna Burdett
Last updated at 17:31, Friday, 30 July 2010

The family of a man who is thought to have killed himself after his wild ponies were removed from Caldbeck Common, say they are suing the RSPCA for its actions.

The RSPCA and several other horse charities rounded up more than 100 ponies from Uldale and Caldbeck commons because of fears over their welfare. Owner Alan Brough, from Newbiggin, was arrested on suspicion of animal cruelty the morning of the operation on Wednesday last week and was found dead soon after his release from police custody.

The ponies and foals were taken to Bristol, Blackpool, Durham, Burton Upon Trent and Norfolk to be cared for by various horse charities. Mr Brough’s family said they were told by the RSPCA on Monday that 90 of the ponies were taken because they were left in conditions that may cause them harm. His daughter Kathleen Michie said: “If that’s the case, how can sheep be left on the common?”

The family says it has hired a specialist animal welfare solicitor to help them get the ponies back. Mrs Michie added: “We’re taking legal action to get the ponies back. We’re in talks with the RSPCA through solicitors. We’re also trying to prove that the actions of the RSPCA led to dad’s death.”

The family initially believed the charity would give the ponies back but they say Mrs Brough was offered the return of only a few ponies on Monday.

A statement from the RSPCA, Redwings Horse Sanctuary, World Horse Welfare, the British Horse Society and Horse World said: “Many of the ponies require extensive and indeed expensive veterinary treatment which has been neglected in some cases for many years. We have not been able to secure sufficient reassurance that the needs of 102 animals can be met to the standard required by law if they were returned.

“The RSPCA is awaiting specific veterinary advice and reports as to the appropriateness or otherwise of returning a small number of animals provided all the charities involved can be satisfied that the animals will be properly cared for and their needs met. That is an ongoing process and it may take some time to consider the animals’ suitability before any returns can be considered.
If this isn’t possible the RSPCA may find it necessary to bring the matter before a court to secure ownership of the ponies and thereby secure their wellbeing.”

Mr Brough’s funeral will be held at Carlisle crematorium at 3pm today
He leaves his wife Kathleen, four daughters and nine grandchildren.

First published at 14:08, Friday, 30 July 2010
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Wild Caldbeck ponies to be returned to owner's widow

By Anna Burdett
Last updated at 11:50, Saturday, 24 July 2010

The RSPCA has offered to return Caldbeck’s wild ponies to the widow of Alan Brough who was found dead last week after the charity removed his animals from the common. Kathleen Brough, from Newbiggin, near Penrith, will meet officers from the RSPCA on Monday to discuss the return of the animals.

Around 100 ponies were removed from Caldbeck and Uldale commons on Wednesday and Thursday in an operation involving police, the RSPCA, the British Horse Society and several other charities.

Mr Brough was arrested on suspicion of animal cruelty before the operation started on Wednesday morning. He was not charged.

Hours after his release on bail, he was found dead by the River Eamont at St Ninian’s Church, Brougham, by his grand-daughter.

Mr Brough’s daughter, also called Kathleen, said: “The RSPCA has told mum she can have as many back as she wants. She wants them all back and the whole family will help to look after them. He (Alan) died to get them back, we can’t turn our backs on them. They won’t tell us where the ponies are and it’s torture.”

The RSPCA took action after welfare concerns were raised about the ponies. One was put to sleep because of its poor condition. The RSPCA said in statement: “We certainly would not rule out any suggestions put forward by the family providing, of course, the needs of the animals can be met.”

The ponies have become a tourist attraction since Mr Brough released the first few onto the common more than 30 years ago. The 68-year-old builder would take hay and grass to the ponies every day and his family said they were his life.

James Irving, chairman of Uldale Commoners Association, worked with Mr Brough for two years to control their numbers. A castration programme began two years ago in co-operation with Mr Brough and landowners, the Lake District National Park Authority.

Mr Irving said: “Everyone living round here is in shock, it’s horrendous what’s happened. We’re upset and furious at the way the RSPCA and British Horse Society handled this. The farmers, commoners, National Park and Mr Brough were happy with the castration programme.
We’re all farmers round here, we know when something is suffering, and these ponies had a happy life.”

First published at 09:00, Saturday, 24 July 2010
Published by News & Star | Home
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Seems very strange that ponies which were apparently in need of extensive and indeed expensive veterinary treatment would be offered back to the family by the very organization which took them in the first place because they were neglected and in need of so much extensive veterinary treatment etc. :confused:
 
As an animal owner, I've been in the position where the RSPCA refused to act in any way, education or otherwise, when it came to light that a person with learning difficulties had been abusing ( resulting in death) horses an other animals in the local area FOR YEARS!

He was moved to the other end of the country - and will continue his obsession with causing pain and panic. I know for a fact that he is not under the 24 hr supervision I was promised he would be.
The police were also unhappy with the actions,(maybe inaction! is better) of the RSPCA in this case, but they are not in a position to enforce anything once the case had been passed over to them, as all animal abuse cases are.
I was incredulous at the apathy of the RSPCA! not to say distraught...
 
Sorry, it's not so clear, I get a bit emotional when I think of it. The 'he' I was refering to is the person who abused the animals in my local area, not the Cumbrian ponies case.
I don't think I should write his name in a public forum, but I'm happy to pass on details in a pm.
 
ozpoz said:
Sorry, it's not so clear, I get a bit emotional when I think of it. The 'he' I was refering to is the person who abused the animals in my local area, not the Cumbrian ponies case.
I don't think I should write his name in a public forum, but I'm happy to pass on details in a pm.
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No problem. Thanks for replying.
 
I don't think many of you slating the RSPCA can actually read - the RSPCA, WHW, BHS, Horseworld and Redwings were all involved in this rescue mission and NONE of them are responsible for this cruel man's death. How come it was terrible when Jamie Grey abused horses and everyone was over the moon when his horses were removed from him, but its different for this man? Its the same thing in my book.
 
gemin1eye that so called cruel man is not here to defend himself. Have you actually seen the photos of his other animals which he was not treating with medication?
 
Well Patty, you have had a good old rant on here tonight, have you had any time for some supper? Do you actually live in Cumbria? because I do, I have also seen the state of the late mans horses. Calbeck Fell ponies were not the main issue, it was the ponies he kept at home that were a wellfare issue. You have seen the photos, judge for yourself. I dont really believe that you have any ones interest at heart and you are just a troll. By the way have you ever heard of a well known stud in the south, has won the Royal Welsh on numerous occasions, well they dont know who you are either. Go back under your bridge and fester. Dont shove your vitriol and stupidity under our noses.
 
gemin1eye said:
I don't think many of you slating the RSPCA can actually read - the RSPCA, WHW, BHS, Horseworld and Redwings were all involved in this rescue mission and NONE of them are responsible for this cruel man's death....
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At last, someone else noticed - *All* the major animal welfare, horse charities and,apparently, since he was arrested and no charity can act in this way without polioce involvement, the police were engaged in this operation to rescue horses from serious neglect.
From: https://www.bhs.org.uk/Press_Centre/BHS_News/Cumbria_Statement.aspx

"...The British Horse Society, HorseWorld Trust, Redwings Horse Sanctuary, RSPCA and World Horse Welfare were extremely concerned about ponies and horses on Caldbeck and Uldale Common, and at a nearby stables owned by Mr. Alan Brough.

"As a result, all these organisations supported and took part in a joint operation on 21 and 22 July to examine and remove the animals and provide, in some cases, urgent veterinary care..."
 
horseygirl28 said:
The RSPCA are a waste of space. They ruin too many peoples lives. Possibly the worst organisation ever set up.
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They were set up for the right reasons. The problem is that they are no longer driven by their original mission statement (their new one is very cleverly written).

They are sadly now run by fatcats, ex MP's and animal extremists. Someone I know works VERY closely with them and the stories he has to tell are sickening. I give it to them though, they have an amazing PR machine.
 
bexwarren24 said:
They were set up for the right reasons. The problem is that they are no longer driven by their original mission statement (their new one is very cleverly written).

They are sadly now run by fatcats, ex MP's and animal extremists. Someone I know works VERY closely with them and the stories he has to tell are sickening. I give it to them though, they have an amazing PR machine.
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RSCPA MISSION STATEMENT (from their website):The RSPCA as a charity will, by all lawful means, prevent cruelty, promote kindness to and alleviate suffering of all animals.

I cannot see whats clever about this mission statement??? Please enlighten me to whats clever?? All it says to me is they will screw innocent animal owners over and get the public to donate their hard earned money.

I have NEVER donated a single penny to the RSPCA and NEVER will.
 
horseygirl28 said:
RSCPA MISSION STATEMENT (from their website):The RSPCA as a charity will, by all lawful means, prevent cruelty, promote kindness to and alleviate suffering of all animals.

I cannot see whats clever about this mission statement??? Please enlighten me to whats clever?? All it says to me is they will screw innocent animal owners over and get the public to donate their hard earned money.

I have NEVER donated a single penny to the RSPCA and NEVER will.
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Its the alleviate suffering bit thats the real irony in the statement. There main method of alleviating suffering is through death, they put down tens of thousands of healthy animals a year.

Compare their mission statement to that of a true animal loving charity:

The Blue Cross

We believe that:

Every animal has the right to be treated with kindness and respect
Every animal in pain has the right to proper veterinary care
Every abandoned animal has the right to a loving, caring home
No healthy animal should ever be destroyed simply for want of a home

I know which of these two I would rather give my money too.
 
bexwarren24 said:
Its the alleviate suffering bit thats the real irony in the statement. There main method of alleviating suffering is through death, they put down tens of thousands of healthy animals a year.

Compare their mission statement to that of a true animal loving charity:

The Blue Cross

We believe that:

Every animal has the right to be treated with kindness and respect
Every animal in pain has the right to proper veterinary care
Every abandoned animal has the right to a loving, caring home
No healthy animal should ever be destroyed simply for want of a home

I know which of these two I would rather give my money too.
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RSPCA are a disgrace
 
The Blue Cross are fine - except, of course, that you cannot report cases of cruelty to them. They'd probably tell you to call the rspca.
 
Hi I was having difficulty trying to post so I sent a private message to another user asking them to pass on a message from Darlingcobs.

Darling cobs would like the forum to know that she is not ignoring anyones questions, but she can no longer post on this forum as she has been permanently banned as it has been concluded by whomever choice it was to ban her that her attitude towards other members was not acceptable.
 
CurleysOlderBrother said:
Hi I was having difficulty trying to post so I sent a private message to another user asking them to pass on a message from Darlingcobs.

Darling cobs would like the forum to know that she is not ignoring anyones questions, but she can no longer post on this forum as she has been permanently banned as it has been concluded by whomever choice it was to ban her that her attitude towards other members was not acceptable.
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YYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!! So long sucker!!!!! And if she hasn't been banned, she's done a runner!! Good riddance to bad rubbish!!!!
 
CurleysOlderBrother said:
I believe the CPS should prosecute for animal cruelty not a charity.
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I do too. I am a qualified lawyer. I also worked as a welfare officer for a large equine charity in the field and investigated many cases of abuse (some of which the RSPCA successfully prosecuted). Again and again and again people get off with animal cruelty as there is no-one to prosecute them. RSPCA will only deal with the very worst cases. Yes, in the real world it is not feasible for CPS to prosecute I understand that. But the part of me that pays taxes and prefers animals to people would rather some of those taxes were spent on stopping animal cruelty.
 
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