RSPCA vs Skipper: the truth

[ribbons]

Sorry dobiegirl, stupid of me. I ask the question because the link looks to take us to a different HHO thread started by skipper but the name zareeba is one she uses on AL and her post is identical to the one she posted there.
I'm confused (not difficult for me when it comes to the Internet) has she actually put that post here on HHO and if so where, that required a link to find it (as provided by puppy) or has it been linked from another forum (ie AL)
I ask because I know she frequents AL and has a very small amount of supporters there, but I am gobsmacked if she has posted her defence on this forum and seriously expected anyone to have any sympathy for her and be swayed by her excuses.
So sorry if I'm making no sense, it's the access to her post that's confusing me.

 

[rockysmum]

Whats AL

 

[Baggybreeches]

Skipper - you are an absolute disgrace to humanity. I thought you couldnt sink lower, but trying to defend your behaviour shows you have learnt NOTHING at all. The conditions those horses were kept in were repellant. I would like to make you live in 3 ft of **** for 6 months. THERE ARE NO EXCUSES. Your expert witnesses should be ashamed too, if they tried to defend you.

And you need a hairdresser. Urgently.

Looking at the state of her, that might the case!!!!

 

[Derfette]

You deserve everything you get! As mentioned previously, if you can't be bothered to provide the basic care for your animals, don't have any!! The camera doesn't lie!!!

 

[perfect11s]

Pictures in Daily Mail write up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ping-horses-kept-squalid-conditions-down.html

Thanks for the link..
Well she is either evil or should be sectioned and to write a load of crap about how hard done to she is beggars belief.. just makes it worse words fail me ....

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Whats AL

Arabian Lines forum, linky for you here to the thread: http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=52365

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Am I to understand that this lady's defence is that she was to ill to care for these animals? If that was the case why didn't she sell them way before it got to this stage. Or was it the horses that had an untreatable problem in which case why weren' t they PTS way before it got to this stage. Either way OP has no right to keep animals if she is unable to make hard decisions when the time comes unfortunately that comes with owning any animals. So sad to think of such noble creatures being kept this way its heartbreaking to see the photos.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

For crying out loud OP, clean your glasses and have another look at the pictures of YOUR horses and then read that your poor bloody stallion had to be put down immediately and 2 others shortly afterwards. How can that possibly be bias? It's hard, irrefutable EVIDENCE and well done RSPCA and the courts for recognising that you should never be allowed to be in charge of so much as a bloody stick insect in future. Get a grip, man up and start looking for another career. Shame on you woman. Shame on you.

 

[rockysmum]

Just out of interest, has anyone read these books. Quite worrying that people might be taking advice from them

 

[Archiepoo]

SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU OP !!!! im truly lost for words -do you really think you didnt do anything wrong? IMO you should be in prison maybe you would learn your lesson there.

 

[brighteyes]

I'd want to see better photo's before I say anything directly relevant to the case. I'm not saying Skipper isn't guilty either.

I have no faith in the RSPCA whatsoever. Lord help anyone who has a chronic laminitic suffering an attack if anyone reports them in the 'acute' phase. Also, why was a VET looking at horse's teeth? If the horse is very old, emaciation can occur (why weren't Carrot and Spud euthanised on the spot?) but the horse can be alert, bright and feisty, even if it doesn't look fit to win at HOYS in the 'overstuffed pudding' class. Where are the RSPCA when it comes to deliberately produced overweight animals?

Anyway, there is enough reading on the other side of the coin here for me to doubt at least some of what they say.

As for the deep litter, I know of many apparently well horses whose beds are a filthy disgrace. The ammonia smell is unbearable. Farmers regularly deep litter to further than that without prosecution and if the bed is clean and ammonia-free then what is the problem? Oh, and that's not 3 feet.

I personally know of several horses, well-loved and cared for whose teeth were a bloody disgrace and the owners were horrified as their teeth HAD been done previously. at a recommended time interval. The RSPCA is using fully qualified EDT's now, is it? Having a few sharp points is not comfortable, but rarely life threatening and they can develop alarmingly quickly!

Again. I am not saying she wasn't guilty but I have been in the laminitis and teeth position and personally know of a VERY skinny, very elderly pony who won't stay in her field (jumps out if she feels like it) and woe betide anyone trying to lead her out if they don't keep up with her. She can wriggle out of her rugs, too and is frustratingly bright. The vet is poised ready to do the deed but atm there is no reason except the appearance of her. Her teeth have been examined and NOT interfered with - the diet is given to suit. A passer-by could readily jump to massively wrong conclusions if they looked at her having a quiet snooze, out in the drizzle on a chilly day, rugless and thin.

I know because I did. And I rang a BHS Welfare officer to confirm what I saw and what I discussed with the pony's owner.

Just saying. Be very careful as the RSCPA can and does strike for no reason and once they get their teeth into you...

 

[rockysmum]

I looked at that link Brighteyes

I'm sure there are many cases where the RSPCA over react but I dont think that site gives a very good impression of the "other side" This quote says it all

Animal owners should be aware that if during an RSPCA prosecution they give permission for their vet to discuss their animals with the RSPCA or the policeman seizing them, they are waiving all future rights to client privilege during pending court proceedings.

This becomes important if your vet is ( or later becomes as a result of RSPCA involvement) critical in any way.

It is of use to the RSPCA in some cases where the owner's vet examined the animals but is not being called for the defence, with a view to issuing a witness summons to the vet.

If the accused has waived their right to confidentiality the vet can then disclose to the prosecution any adverse advice or reports that would otherwise have remained unseen, and give evidence against the defendant.

The answer is:

Dont allow your vet to talk to the RSPCA or the police until you have a report in writing ( possibly handwritten on the day) that you know is favourable to you.

 

[brighteyes]

I looked at that link Brighteyes

I'm sure there are many cases where the RSPCA over react but I dont think that site gives a very good impression of the "other side" This quote says it all

Animal owners should be aware that if during an RSPCA prosecution they give permission for their vet to discuss their animals with the RSPCA or the policeman seizing them, they are waiving all future rights to client privilege during pending court proceedings.

This becomes important if your vet is ( or later becomes as a result of RSPCA involvement) critical in any way.

It is of use to the RSPCA in some cases where the owner's vet examined the animals but is not being called for the defence, with a view to issuing a witness summons to the vet.

If the accused has waived their right to confidentiality the vet can then disclose to the prosecution any adverse advice or reports that would otherwise have remained unseen, and give evidence against the defendant.

The answer is:

Dont allow your vet to talk to the RSPCA or the police until you have a report in writing ( possibly handwritten on the day) that you know is favourable to you.

Because nobody twists things, ever. If you have nothing to hide, why on earth wouldn't you think it was OK to let your vet discuss their findings? I called my vet out many times over the course of a pony's suffering with Cushing's related laminitis.

I eventually felt it was unfair to keep her going, whereas the vet wanted to do x-rays of her feet with a view to further treatment/farriery and drugs! Considering they failed to suspect/diagnose EMS and Cushing's in the first place - a professor at Leahurst mentioned it 'in passing' whilst we were there on an unrelated issue (see, we really did 'under-provide' for a freebie 28yo pony) What would the outcome of that discussion? I cruelly had her humanely euthanised after a prolonged attack?

I also suspect the rubbish EDT I had was partly to blame for the problems I was having with her digestion IMO I failed her terribly. So everyone shoot me now. I failed to know her teeth were possibly inexpertly done I failed to know she had Cushing's at 20 and for 8 years had battled to keep a previously overfed pony showpony slim. I had the vet out many times, completely baffled how laminitis STILL affected her on and off over the eight years we loved her and did our best by her? ALL under the care of the same vet she had had since she was 15?

I really could cry. Thank GOD the RSPCA didn't come and check on me is all I can say.

 

[rockysmum]

So sorry about your girl Brighteyes. But the point I was making would never have applied to you.

The statement I quoted was telling people not to let their vet discuss the case with the RSPCA in case it came out that they had acted against the vets (or others) advice. Surely anyone doing that would be able to prove that they had got a second or even third opinion rather than just ignoring it.

No-one would blame an owner for thinking a horse had had enough and humanely PTS.

 

[brighteyes]

The facts seem quite clear - but one DOES have to say that Magistrates' Courts inevitably find for the RSPCA and many cases it has brought HAVE had the decisions overturned on Appeal (one classic was the 'horse on a gate' case which was inspired by a desire to prosecute an MFH!)

IF the OP believes she was wrongly treated, a successful Appeal would be the way to go. Otherwise, she stands convicted as charged.

Yes, I agree.

If the OP is guilty as charged, then they can rot in hell for all I care.

Just be very aware of the fact the RSPCA like high profile cases and corruption is everywhere. It is a money-driven organisation and has lost any personal touch it may have had. Try getting through to the helpline. It'll cost you a fortune, as the number is non-geographic, so the second your call is answered (by a menu you will have to negociate or a queue position update) you are being charged and their massive income is boosted.

All you with acutely or chronically sick and thin, elderly ponies, carry on doing your best. If you aren't a 'name' (or a farmer) you probably have little to fear.

 

[brighteyes]

For crying out loud OP, clean your glasses and have another look at the pictures of YOUR horses and then read that your poor bloody stallion had to be put down immediately and 2 others shortly afterwards. How can that possibly be bias? It's hard, irrefutable EVIDENCE and well done RSPCA and the courts for recognising that you should never be allowed to be in charge of so much as a bloody stick insect in future. Get a grip, man up and start looking for another career. Shame on you woman. Shame on you.

Where are the really representative ones? Genuine Q.

 

[Moomin1]

Yes, I agree.

If the OP is guilty as charged, then they can rot in hell for all I care.

Just be very aware of the fact the RSPCA like high profile cases and corruption is everywhere. It is a money-driven organisation and has lost any personal touch it may have had. Try getting through to the helpline. It'll cost you a fortune, as the number is non-geographic, so the second your call is answered (by a menu you will have to negociate or a queue position update) you are being charged and their massive income is boosted.

All you with acutely or chronically sick and thin, elderly ponies, carry on doing your best. If you aren't a 'name' (or a farmer) you probably have little to fear.

Really?!! Really?

I feel sorry for all those hardworking inspectors out there who bring succesful prosecutions EVERY week which don't make the press, who read comments like this.

And yes, I do know how many prosecutions are brought about which don't make the press. And guess what, they don't make the press BECAUSE the press aren't interested unless it's a high profile case!

 

[fidgeuk]

I think the care and attention she has so obviously spent on herself was mirrored in the care and attention she gave her horses!

I have a pet saying for people feeling sorry for themselves....

"Sympathy can be found in the dictionary somewhere between **** and Syphallis!"

 

[FreyaG]

There was a request for more pictures-[ I hated seeing the image of the beautiful arab stallion PTS in his cramped - becaused the bedding was so deep he had no headroom- stable.
I have 'Understanding the Arabian Horse' and this very stallion is featured as a much loved animal !!!]
So if you need more proof of neglect then here's a link to a video.. unpleasant viewing- just how Lesley Skipper could research and write a book and keep her horses in such poor conditions is beyond my understanding.
http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/story/2012-10-16/horse-care-experts-guilty-of-animal-cruelty/

 

[princestar]

What an absolute bloody idiot!!!!
How can you come on here and defend yourself - those horses suffered at your hands and you deserve to be punished - £500 was not enough, I'm just glad its a lifetime ban, horses can sleep safe now - you should never have been aloud to keep any of the other animals.

You killed those horses slowly, prision would have been a better place for you!!