Rubbish feet taking over my life

[Merlod]

I have one pony (welsh D) who has rubbish feet and I don’t know what to do, I feel like his feet are taking over my life I spend so much time looking after them and thinking about them! He is on the exact same routine and feed as my others and they both have rock crunchers whether shod or unshod. Perhaps it’s just genetics

Diet:
Formula4feet, thunderbrook grass-herb chaff (no alfalfa/molasses), linseed, salt. ( I have previously tried proohoof but nobody would eat it!)
Currently grazing poor-medium grass on huge hill field with herd.
Ad lib hay if he goes in, but he doesn’t really eat lots of it this time of year (he is stabled overnight in winter for the main reason of getting his feet out the mud!)

Care:
He is shod every 5 weeks as the hoof wall around the nail holes just seems to chip off in chunks. Currently I pick, wash and hibiscrub his hooves every evening making sure I get in all the cracked/chipped areas and then apply solution4feet or cut heal hoof dressing.
Started wearing O/R boots in field as suggested by farrier but I’m not sure the solution is this simple.
If it is really wet I have started bringing him in during the day to let his feet have some dry time. If it is really dry I put some kevin bacons on in the morning when I fly mask.

Riding:
We have some very rocky tracks where we ride and I was wondering if this is contributing to his poor feet (even though it doesn't affect any other horses who I ride the same tracks with!) as I said, they only break up around the nail holes. I was wondering if there was something he could wear to protect his hoof around the nail holes. Or maybe if I filled the cracked/chipped areas with hoof putty it would stop them getting worse?

Other:
I was thinking about changing him to an alfalfa based chaff – but I have heard alfalfa is both good AND bad for feet. Mega confusion!
Same for magnesium, heard both good and bad for supplementing additional (F4F already contains magnesium).
Asking farrier for those new copper coated nails?

 

[Equi]

I think the problem is your obsessed with them. Over care can cause as much problems as too little.

Dry feet crack it's actually better to let them be wet sometimes and get moisture.

 

[ycbm]

If that supplement has iron and or manganese in it, that could be your problem. They prevent copper uptake and low copper disrupts insulin use and that affects feet. I have looked and they don't seem to list individual minerals.

So if it does, deep to one that is high copper, high magnesium and zero iron and manganese.

 

[Morganfan]

Have a look at the website gravelproofhoof.org, it has a lot of interesting information about minerals and what the feet need to grow strong and healthy. I took my tb (with shocking typical tb hooves) out of shoes 3 years ago and started him on the extra minerals. He now has a nice healthy (according to my trimmer) hoof. Yes, they are still flat and typical tb, but gets ridden out on the road without shoes or boots and holds up nicely. Funny thing is since we removed his shoes he has stopped tripping while being ridden. Well worth a look.

 

[Merlod]

I think the problem is your obsessed with them. Over care can cause as much problems as too little.

Dry feet crack it's actually better to let them be wet sometimes and get moisture.

I'll try and find some pics, but he went a week overdue the shoeing before last and it's not just cracks, but chunks of hoof come away from where the nails go on and his foot couldn't hold the nails, some loosened/fell out and the shoe moved back and the toe clip went up into his white line.

Farrier said the sudden wet weather isn't helping after dry spells as it saturates the hoof, hence stabling him when we have a long rain forecast so at least his hoof dried out somewhat

 

[Merlod]

If that supplement has iron and or manganese in it, that could be your problem. They prevent copper uptake and low copper disrupts insulin use and that affects feet. I have looked and they don't seem to list individual minerals.

So if it does, deep to one that is high copper, high magnesium and zero iron and manganese.

Thanks, will look now. Any suggestions for high copper, magnesium with no iron and manganese supplmenets/feeds?

 

[ycbm]

Forageplus.co.uk or pro hoof sold on eBay by Progressive Earth. I prefer the second as it has yeast in it.

 

[soulfull]

My farrier says it's the dry then wet then dry that's is causing problems. So most of us are stabling at night when it is or has been very wet. The putting KB on before they go out Inc on the soles. Seems to be working

 

[ester]

or equimins advanced complete, or equivita, or get your grazing analysed.

 

[Annagain]

M used to have terrible feet, at one point he was being shod every 3 weeks as they just wouldn't stay on any longer and then the nails were going back in to the same holes so they would be very weak. It was a vicious circle. He too, would lose big chunks of hoof like you describe. We tried everything - diet, painted all sorts of potions on, he had shoes glued on, we took him barefoot and rode him in boots (they would come flying off behind as he has a funny action where he twists one foot as it hits the floor). We even gave him 2 months off one Autumn just so his feet could have break from shoes. Nothing worked.

My other horse A then had to have remedial shoeing and our farrier at the time (an excellent farrier and very well respected) wanted to charge over £100 a set for him. My vet recommended another farrier who he said was just as good (if not better) and charged £65 for the same shoes. A therefore swapped and rather than have two different farriers we swapped with M too. In the 9 years since we swapped, he's lost 2 shoes (both this winter in awful mud) and is now going 7 weeks between shoeings. The first farrier wasn't doing anything wrong, but there was something about his style of shoeing that didn't suit M. With the new farrier, we spotted a difference in the first week and it's gone on from there.

He doesn't have any supplements any more (I'm sceptical about them) and, other than a bit of Kevin Bacon when I remember or some hoof oil when he needs to look smart, doesn't have anything on his hooves. He has a sugar allergy so is basically fed a barefoot diet and his feet have never been better.

 

[Merlod]

or equimins advanced complete, or equivita, or get your grazing analysed.

Thank-you. I have just ordered the equimins. What do you bulk it out with? I currently use thunderbrook chaff but noticed the iron contect so was thinking of hi-fi molasses free? I've tried fast fibre before but it went down like a led balloon!

 

[ester]

I use agrobs aspero. The one thing that has actually made him eat since going molasses free!

 

[Leo Walker]

I'd be thinking there might be a deep seated infection. It quite often presents like that. If you can time it right, next time hes being shod I would Cleantrax him. It will be a bit fiddly timings wise, but it should clear up any infection.

 

[ester]

excellent point FC

 

[Merlod]

I'd be thinking there might be a deep seated infection. It quite often presents like that. If you can time it right, next time hes being shod I would Cleantrax him. It will be a bit fiddly timings wise, but it should clear up any infection.

Yes, my thought has been bacterial - hence the daily hibiscrubing of the cracks and nail holes. He isn't due for 4 weeks now but I will look into cleantrax - does it absolutely have to be done with the shoe off to work properly?

 

[Merlod]

For anyone interested, here is a pic.

Please note this is how it looks at it's worst because we went a week over shoeing and the hoof wall just broke away and the nails had nothing to hold to. I send my farrier this before he lost the remaining nail and the shoe slipped back and he stood on the toe clip.

One thing i've noticed, it's always the outside hoof on his fronts thats the worst :/

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I know you said a week overdue but I wouldn't be happy if that's how my horse was shod. Maybe its just the camera angle but that shoe looks ridiculously too small for that hoof. I'd have the shoes off and use hoof boots, no nail holes to get infected or cause cracking then.

 

[_HP_]

The hoof looks really small and contracted with long heels.
I'd want the shoes off

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I think it is time for a radical change, remove the shoes and change the mineral, I would try Pro Hoof for a month, see if there is a change from that alone.
Is he walking out well and or is he shuffling, I think it is unusual to identify one area which is always poor, but it may or may not be significant.

 

[Annagain]

This is exactly what M's feet looked like (in terms of the crumbling, not the shoeing). I'd really consider a different farrier or at the very least asking your farrier if there's anything he can do differently. I'm not saying he's necessarily doing a bad job, just that a slightly different way of doing it might suit him a bit better. The first thing my new farrier did was put M in shoes with quarter clips. This seemed to make a big difference.

 

[ester]

So the horn quality above the nail holes is actually very good and it looks like you shouldn't really have a problem. It's not really a good enough pic to judge the shoeing on in anyway but it doesn't scream quality job at me as it is.

 

[Merlod]

I think it's just the angle that makes it look awful. His feet usually look reasonable, and we've never had any resulting lameness. It's just the bleddy hoof wall going awol. Here are some pics from tonight. He was shod a week ago. Farrier put quarter clips on this time. His hind feet are much less affected and you can see how much better the outside of the OF looks compared to my first picture.

I don't really want to go down the hoof boots route, we already have cavallos as I try to give him a break from shoeing in the winter and they just don't suit for more than pottering around.

Hopefully changing from f4f to equimins will help, but obviously I won't know until the hoof grows down!

 

[Pinkvboots]

I too think the shoes are too small for his feet the wall is hanging over the edge of them which basically will offer no support to the hoof at all

 

[ester]

Hard to tell without a proper perpendicular shot but I think I would like to see the heel on that shoe extending back a bit further, he looks a bit 'short shod' as he stands.
I do think the theory behind the copper nails is pretty sound and my YO has had good results with her lad - much worse feet that yours and I suspect the side clips may help too.
Essentially it is important to notice that the damage is all below the level of the nail holes, what is above that looks fab so it is likely a combiniation of not 100% feet and the fact you are shoeing.

 

[Equi]

Have to agree the hoof looks good above the nail holes and the shoes look too small. If he was done a week ago it should look much tidier. Is he just putting the same shoes back on?

 

[Zipzop]

IMO you are attacking this from the wrong angle. You are looking at what to feed him, supplements, changing feeds etc. Whislt the right food combination is important, the main issue is a horses hoof wall should not have metal spikes nailed through them.
Some cope well but many, many others struggle on with crappy feet due to shoeing - unfortunately yours is one of them. The only option is too remove shoes and let the horse be as nature intended. In six months, you'd be looking at an entirely different quality set of feet.

 

[Leo Walker]

IMO you are attacking this from the wrong angle. You are looking at what to feed him, supplements, changing feeds etc. Whislt the right food combination is important, the main issue is a horses hoof wall should not have metal spikes nailed through them.
Some cope well but many, many others struggle on with crappy feet due to shoeing - unfortunately yours is one of them. The only option is too remove shoes and let the horse be as nature intended. In six months, you'd be looking at an entirely different quality set of feet.

Mine are barefoot and I'm very pro barefoot, but it isnt the only option. Shoeing might not be the best option, but it does work for a lot of horses. My old horse did 18 months of barefoot rehab but never came totally right. Hes shod now and is vastly improved. His new owner knows that shoeing him might reduce his working life but he has other issues so it was a considered decision between us both before I signed him over. And actually, hes fit and sound now and has never looked better, so she clearly did the right thing.

If you want your horse shod, then get the VERY best farrier you can find and feed a "barefoot" diet, which is actually just a good diet. I dont want a shod horse for myself, but it does work very successfully for many people, so long as they have the right farrier etc

 

[ycbm]

IMO you are attacking this from the wrong angle. You are looking at what to feed him, supplements, changing feeds etc. Whislt the right food combination is important, the main issue is a horses hoof wall should not have metal spikes nailed through them.
Some cope well but many, many others struggle on with crappy feet due to shoeing - unfortunately yours is one of them. The only option is too remove shoes and let the horse be as nature intended. In six months, you'd be looking at an entirely different quality set of feet.

I don't agree with this. You cannot tell whether the horse is one of those which just can't wear shoes until after you have optimised the diet.

And to remove the shoes on a horse whose diet is faulty is asking for a sore horse.

 

[DD]

might be oversupplementing. get forage analized. its been a very wet winter too wet dry wet dry doesnt do the feet any good.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Have you thought of taking his shoes off and trying him in boots just to give his feet a break from the nailing.