Dressage Rude Dressage Judge

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sputnik

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I recently attended a local RC dressage competition on my very sweet and obliging TBx rescue mare. We did a couple of Prelims, and at the end of our second test, the judge took the trouble to come out of her box to speak to me. She asked me "How old is your horse?" I replied "She's 11". The judge said, "Oh, I thought you were going to say she was 22".

I was so taken aback that I didn't know what to say, and had to really bite back the tears. I found this terribly insulting, especially as I thought the test had gone quite well - my girl felt calm and relaxed, we made no mistakes and did all of the moves in the correct gait in the right places. My mare hasn't got flashy paces, but I work really hard with her schooling, and we have lots of fun together. I now feel inclined to give up on this dressage malarkey, it was such a negative experience. Needless to say, we came last, which is fine - somebody has to, but was it really necessary for the judge to take the trouble to be so rude about my horse to my face?

Furthermore, this particular judge turned up 20 minutes late, keeping everyone waiting.

I did mention her remark to the organisers of the event, but they weren't remotely interested.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?
 
I have had very similar too, and I must admit I did cry at the time too. My mare grunts when she needs to pee and won't pee under saddle, so the day before Orphelia hit I was warming up and despite being an hour early to ride I was told several people had not shown up so I was in early.

Anway I had to forfeit most of my warm up and go in to a test on my mare that needed a pee. It was incredibly windy and she was a complete saint while I rode like a spud. I should have said I wasn't ready TBH but felt very pressured to go in.

She grunted a few times transitioning into canter and the judge made some nasty comments on my test " Horse grunting, do you even know what that means??!!!!!!!!!" (with all the exclamation marks) and gave me a 3. We came last that day too. Really bad score. But that didn't bother me.

I was competing at a low level in RC too. Only there to get experience! course as soon as I jumped off she peed and was happy out.

I showed the test marking sheet to my instructor, (while in tears I might add, and I'm supposed to be a grown woman) who brought it up at a regional meeting as she thought it was appalling and that judge hasn't been used at that level again. Clearly she didn't want to be there as others had complained too.


horses are meant to be fun. So what to what the judge said to you, Ignore it and move on. Just prove it by beating your score at the next show. screw the haters!
 
Did she say it in a rude way? I see how that can come across rude but I wonder if there is some context behind the question e.g. she thought she knew the horse or something?

Definitely don't give up dressage I know it's very frustrating but I do think there's lots of strange and socially awkward people in the horse world and many of them don't quite realise what they have said!
 
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Yep, is your horse stiff behind? This is probably what the judge was getting at or something along these lines.

Don't take it personally, although I know it's hard not to. The problem with dressage and showing is that we are putting ourselves out there to be judged, and sometimes the feedback can be hard to swallow (and admittedly sometimes it's total nonsense). Try and be open minded, think about what made her say that and is there something you could do to improve in the future (if it was stiffness e.g. a joint supplment might help)
 
Did she say anything after the "I thought you were going to say 22 comment?"
How was it said?
I think most judges try to be nice and sometimes their comments are taken the wrong way because we are already in a stressed / nervous situation.
As above, is there anything about your mare which could suggest she's not quite right? (maybe ask for an honest opinion from your trainer?)
What were the main comments on your test sheet - do they hint at the judge thinking your mare is stiff / unlevel?
Or if she shows no signs of not being quite right...is she maybe a bit on the ploddy side and needs to be ridden with a bit more va-va-voom?
 
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Thank you for your replies. Yes, I suspect that the judge was trying to convey her thoughts on my mares movement - she is economical with her paces, and I have discussed it with my instructors, who are both of the opinion that it's just her way of going and we are working on various schooling exercises to help improve things. But I do think that her remark was insensitive and unnecessary, and not at all encouraging. I've been riding (and writing) in dressage competitions for 20 years, so I have plenty of experience of being judged, but there is no need to be unkind to competitors. Critical, yes, but not rude.
 
I don't think it was meant unkindly - she might have been working up to saying something about how it's lovely to see the golden oldies out and about still. Nothing offensive about calling a horse old (even if it isn't!)

If she'd said your horse was an ugly talentless camel, and you couldn't ride to save your life - then I think you'd be justified in getting upset!
 
amymay said:
It was an unkind remark. But it may in the long run be a useful one.

Take a step back. Does your mare look well, does she look sound.

What were the comments on your test sheet?
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Comments were along the lines of stiff over the back and varying rhythm, so she may not have looked fully sound, especially as the surface was extremely deep in places due to the lack of rain. Still no excuse for the judge to be rude though.
 
sputnik said:
Comments were along the lines of stiff over the back and varying rhythm, so she may not have looked fully sound, especially as the surface was extremely deep in places due to the lack of rain. Still no excuse for the judge to be rude though.
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In judge speak that means they thought your horse was lame. Maybe it was ‘just’ the deep surface or maybe the surface exacerbated something. They probably genuinely thought your horse was older and were a bit lost for words/it came out wrong.

It’s a fine balance when judging calling out a lame horse, they really do have to be hopping - judges are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

I don’t judge that much but I’ve only got out of my car once. Probably not in dissimilar circumstances to you. The horse was unlevel most of the way through the test. But it was sweet, obedient and not unduly stressed - so I marked on 5 & 6’s and kind of assumed that if the rider had no clue their horse was lame they would not understand why they only got a 50’s %.
So I hopped out the car to say I felt their horse looked a little unlevel and could they get it checked by the vet before going jumping. I got an absolute mouthful about ‘mechanical lameness’ can’t win them all 🤷‍♀️
 
sputnik said:
Comments were along the lines of stiff over the back and varying rhythm, so she may not have looked fully sound, especially as the surface was extremely deep in places due to the lack of rain. Still no excuse for the judge to be rude though.
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Agree with the others that the judge thought your horse was lame / unlevel.

Time for a vet check methinks.
 
like IHW I don't think judges get out of their cars very frequently and without giving it a lot of thought beforehand as they often don't get great responses so they have usually decided they really should.
I am also the sort of person who rehearses conversations so had I really thought the horse was 20+ I could well be caught on the hop if I found out it wasn't.
 
My 8yo son got a really unkind judge at our area RC champs last year.

Partly my fault, as I tried to walk beside him up the long side of the arena towards the judges car as she was planting (only horse left in the outdoor school). Fair enough she flung herself out of the car and shouted at me (I replied politely in the circumstances) but after that, the pony understandably in the test wasn't keen on going very near to the car.

He got loads of 4's (competing against older children who weren't riding in an outline either) and a horrid comment at the bottom about his riding.

I know this is different to your situation, but I just want to say that I understand how you feel, as this happened to us 4 months ago and I'm still cross about it...

As long as your instructor is happy with the pair of you, then that's all you should worry about x x x

Fiona
 
Auslander said:
I don't think it was meant unkindly - she might have been working up to saying something about how it's lovely to see the golden oldies out and about still. Nothing offensive about calling a horse old (even if it isn't!)
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This was my first thought also and that she knew you were going to be towards the bottom of the class so had got out of the car intending to say something encouraging, but was wrongfooted by your answer. I would have thought that if she had been intending to imply the horse was stiff/unsound that she would have gone on to say that particularly once she had ascertained that it was only 11.
 
It sounds to me like the judge was trying to be fairly diplomatic, but unfortunately it has been taken a little too sensitively on your part.

As other posters have said, with judges they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I would have a frank conversation with your trainer, maybe video a couple of sessions so you can watch back and be honestly critical to see if you think there could be any issues with your mare.

It’s pants coming away from a test feeling rubbish, but it does happen. We enter dressage, we pay to be judged. We must accept criticism (within sensible reason) even if it’s not all sunshine and roses. Chin up, don’t let this put you off.
 
Fiona said:
My 8yo son got a really unkind judge at our area RC champs last year.

Partly my fault, as I tried to walk beside him up the long side of the arena towards the judges car as she was planting (only horse left in the outdoor school). Fair enough she flung herself out of the car and shouted at me (I replied politely in the circumstances) but after that, the pony understandably in the test wasn't keen on going very near to the car.

He got loads of 4's (competing against older children who weren't riding in an outline either) and a horrid comment at the bottom about his riding.

I know this is different to your situation, but I just want to say that I understand how you feel, as this happened to us 4 months ago and I'm still cross about it...

As long as your instructor is happy with the pair of you, then that's all you should worry about x x x

Fiona
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That's lovely, thank you. Yes, both of my instructors are happy with me and the horse. I have 2 or 3 lessons a week and one of my instructors regularly rides my horse, so I'm fairly confident that she is sound. X
 
I gave up dressage after riding a lovely elementary test, a trailblazers qualifier on my welsh sec c. She was correct in her way of going & working well towards medium. The judge told me I was “very brave to even attempt this level on SOMETHING LIKE THAT” I wrote to BD & complained about her as she was a listed judge & took up show jumping!
 
merlinsquest said:
I gave up dressage after riding a lovely elementary test, a trailblazers qualifier on my welsh sec c. She was correct in her way of going & working well towards medium. The judge told me I was “very brave to even attempt this level on SOMETHING LIKE THAT” I wrote to BD & complained about her as she was a listed judge & took up show jumping!
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That’s just awful!!!!!
 
Fiona it's outrageous that any judge should speak to a young child in any way other than giving very gentle supportive guidance. I imagine it was obvious why you were walking where you were and the only reaction needed from the judge would have been to reflect the issue in the marks with perhaps a comment along the lines of will improve with more confidence/experience.

OP I don't see the remark as rude more poorly phrased. My reaction would have been of concern as to why my horse gave that impression. Bi-lateral hind leg lameness takes a good eye and sometimes even nerve blocks to spot. The fact neither I nor two instructors could spot it would not be enough to convince me of her soundness. Given her breeding I wouldn't expect her to be particularly economic in her movement, that and the judges comment would mean if she was mine I'd be taking her to be looked at by an equine vet. If they watched her move and were happy then I would have the confidence to say to the next judge that the vet had checked her and it was just her natural way of going.
 
merlinsquest said:
I gave up dressage after riding a lovely elementary test, a trailblazers qualifier on my welsh sec c. She was correct in her way of going & working well towards medium. The judge told me I was “very brave to even attempt this level on SOMETHING LIKE THAT” I wrote to BD & complained about her as she was a listed judge & took up show jumping!
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That's a shame. I'm sure that judge was the exception.
 
alibali said:
Fiona it's outrageous that any judge should speak to a young child in any way other than giving very gentle supportive guidance. I imagine it was obvious why you were walking where you were and the only reaction needed from the judge would have been to reflect the issue in the marks with perhaps a comment along the lines of will improve with more confidence/experience.

OP I don't see the remark as rude more poorly phrased. My reaction would have been of concern as to why my horse gave that impression. Bi-lateral hind leg lameness takes a good eye and sometimes even nerve blocks to spot. The fact neither I nor two instructors could spot it would not be enough to convince me of her soundness. Given her breeding I wouldn't expect her to be particularly economic in her movement, that and the judges comment would mean if she was mine I'd be taking her to be looked at by an equine vet. If they watched her move and were happy then I would have the confidence to say to the next judge that the vet had checked her and it was just her natural way of going.
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This particular judge has judged me and my mare once before, about 3 years ago. She placed me last in both tests then, with very similar comments and observations as our most recent encounter. Since then, we've been judged numerous times by several judges and are often placed in the top 3 with good marks - we scored 80% a couple of months ago! It seems that she doesn't like the way my mare moves. But, I take your point and I will get some checks done to make sure all is well.
 
Goldenstar said:
OP I would spend your energy worrying about what may be wrong with horse rather than taking offence .
It is not yet a sacking offence to make a tactless comment .
I am sure the judge thought your horse was lame
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Yip this would be my thought too.
A friend of mine had something similar happen to her, thought the judge was wrong less than a month later it was diagnosed with PSD in both hinds
 
sputnik said:
This particular judge has judged me and my mare once before, about 3 years ago. She placed me last in both tests then, with very similar comments and observations as our most recent encounter. Since then, we've been judged numerous times by several judges and are often placed in the top 3 with good marks - we scored 80% a couple of months ago! It seems that she doesn't like the way my mare moves. But, I take your point and I will get some checks done to make sure all is well.
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I think you're taking it all in very good grace after the initial shock of the comment. I'm sure it was just a bit unintentionally tactless on the part of the judge, so if it was my horse I would probably just get a vet check for my own peace of mind and then crack on if given the all clear.
 
I recently wrote for a listed judge and we saw several unlevel horses competing, one in particular stood out as immediately it came down the centre line she said it looked bilaterally lame in front tbh I couldn't see it but I saw it SJ later on and it stopped at an easy downhill fence. I happen to know the owner and it went obviously lame a few weeks later and has been retired. The judge didn't get out of the car to any of the competitors because she felt that if the rider couldn't feel the horse was lame, then they wouldn't believe her anyway. I am not saying the OPs horse was lame, just recounting a recent experience.
 
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