Rude judge

Kallibear said:
. Hopefully she'll gain more confidence and grow a thicker skin as you can't go through life being a delicate wilting flower.
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s4sugar said:
This - It sounds as though the judge was misunderstood - by both you & your sister.
If corrected at the greeting for saying hello the correct response would have been "sorry, Good Morning" and to be honest I'm not sure why you got entries refunded? Would you have expected a refund if the horse had misbehaved?
Glad to hear your sister is getting help but if she went to pieces in this situation is dressage really a good idea?
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Im sorry both your responses made me pretty angry, of course they should have got their entries refunded, being spoken to like that is out of order in any situation, maybe the judge could have said "next time say good morning rather than Hello as it gives a better impression".
I think dressage is a BRILLIANT idea, as she can do her test, doesn't matter if it goes wrong, or she misses out parts, the judge will not say anything there or then and the worst that can happen is she is disqualified for not finishing test (i dont know much about dressage so correct me if im wrong).

And people with anxiety problems do not want to go through life being a 'delicate wilting flower', do you really think its fun having anxiety? of course people want to have thick skin!!!! but for some its impossible- I found that comment really patronizing, im sorry not everyone can be out going and confident.

OP- you sound like an amazing sister, and I think what you are doing is the right thing, its a shame this happened to your sister, tbh I would have been a teary mess too! but keep on at her to get some help, or offer to go with her to the doctors? let her know she can talk to you etc etc and I think asking her if she wanted to groom for you is a good idea too!!
 
fatpiggy said:
A few years back I was at a local riding club show and went down to watch a ridden veteran class. I knew one of the ponies in it and had previously been introduced to his new rider, a pleasant young teenage girl who wasn't the most confident person in the world and had only been riding for a matter of weeks, plus this was her first show. She did a good job and got walk, trot and canter successfully although it was plain to see that she was a novice rider. The judge announced very loudly (everyone outside the ring could hear it) that she had no right to be in the class as she was such a poor rider. The poor girl was humiliated and left the ring in tears. The family made a complaint to the organizers and were backed up by a number of witnesses who were just as disgusted. The poor kid was so proud and thrilled to have a pony to care for even if he was in his mid-twenties and her riding was coming on very nicely. She was already sensitive because her parents had recently split up. It was all just completely unnecessary, unprofessional and plain cruel.
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It's because of people like this, i'm put off entering my first show.
Poor kid. That actually upset me reading it.

I hope the judge got told to watch her manners....
 
horselessb said:
And people with anxiety problems do not want to go through life being a 'delicate wilting flower', do you really think its fun having anxiety? of course people want to have thick skin!!!! but for some its impossible- I found that comment really patronizing, im sorry not everyone can be out going and confident!
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That's rather my point. It can't possibly be fun going through life being overly sensitive and therefore it's great that she's going to get some help with it. She can't possibly enjoy life when every little thing upsets (or angers) her and hopefully with the right help, she'll start to cope better (I.e grow a metaphorical thicker skin)
 
I'd have torn a strip off anyone who said 'Hello' to me, then ferociously and rudely corrected me in public for replying in kind. Showing should be about the horse, not nuances of etiquette. Not at that level. It should be fun, welcoming, with positive feedback to help people improve. I absolutely think that you deserved your entry fees back, and I don't think that judge is suitable for the classes she is judging. There is no excuse for being brusque with anyone, and being a local show judge does not elevate you to the status of supreme commander of the universe.

I hope your sister continues to work with her horse and finds things improving for her.
 
Don't you find that those who insist upon the highest levels of etiquette in others are usually the rudest people on the planet. How dare that "judge" speak to anyone in that manner.
 
SadKen said:
I'd have torn a strip off anyone who said 'Hello' to me, then ferociously and rudely corrected me in public for replying in kind. Showing should be about the horse, not nuances of etiquette. Not at that level. It should be fun, welcoming, with positive feedback to help people improve. I absolutely think that you deserved your entry fees back, and I don't think that judge is suitable for the classes she is judging. There is no excuse for being brusque with anyone, and being a local show judge does not elevate you to the status of supreme commander of the universe.

I hope your sister continues to work with her horse and finds things improving for her.
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Totally agree with this. So the judge can say hello but the competitor can't?! And screaming and shouting when she mistook a gelding for a stallion? Maybe it was care in the community day at that show and they thought they'd give a sociopath the chance to be a judge?!
 
I feel so sorry for your experience, your sister must be devastated especially as she put so much trust and hope into the day (if you know what I mean). I feel really sad for her.

Your comment about anyone getting asked to judge made me remember an incident that happened to me many years ago. I was asked on teh spur of the moment to judge a ridden class - best rider. I am just an amatuer rider having fun on my horse just like describe yourself. I couldn't refuse as it would have seemed very rude as we were good friends at the time of the people who owned the club where the show was.

In the class I decided who should come in first place, it was a simple decision and well deserved. But second place was more complicated as there were two riders who I felt were on an equal setting. So I decided to ask each a question, I think the one was tell me the name of the bit in your ponies mouth. The other question was what are the aids for canter on a circle. The one didn't know the answer to both questions was dropped down to third. Her Mum came storming up to me afterwards saying "how dare you mark my daughter third, I'll have you know she came first last week at a county show". I felt dreadful and vowed never to judge again! It really isn't fair to expect people to judge who don't know what they are doing. So yes, I know what a good rider looks like but I am no expert!
 
Lots of good advice here.
My only additional comment would be that maybe "encouraging/pushing" her into competing, even at a low level, might not be the best plan while she's still struggling with her anxiety. As others have said, asking her to help you, or even encouraging her to help out at local shows, going along to "practice nights" if available or simply riding around at the show without competing would all be very good for her confidence with a much smaller risk of some jobsworth upsetting her with a throwaway comment. Confidence and competing are not the same thing. I can get as much of a kick out of making progress at home during a good lesson than I do from a show. Even dressage isn't "safe" as sometimes you might get a comment which even if fair can come across as dismissive and can be misinterpreted.

You also say in one breath that you do it for fun and then that you want to get to the top with your young horse. Which is it?
 
MotherOfChickens said:
lol-this thread is quite unbelievable for many reasons but had anyone spoken to me like that I wouldn't be apologising.
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It isn't what you say - its how you say it. The judge, on that bit at least, was correct - you shouldn't speak to the judge except to say good morning/afternoon unless it is to clarify an instruction or a matter of safety.
A judge shouting a warning across a ring is acceptable even if, as in this instance, in error and ignoring an instruction is always going to wrong foot someone. I would have shouted "space out please" rather than being more specific.
Addressing the judge is not on - imagine how it would look to the ringside. If anything needs to be said it should be a word to the steward.
 
s4sugar said:
It isn't what you say - its how you say it. The judge, on that bit at least, was correct - you shouldn't speak to the judge except to say good morning/afternoon unless it is to clarify an instruction or a matter of safety.
A judge shouting a warning across a ring is acceptable even if, as in this instance, in error and ignoring an instruction is always going to wrong foot someone. I would have shouted "space out please" rather than being more specific.
Addressing the judge is not on - imagine how it would look to the ringside. If anything needs to be said it should be a word to the steward.
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Now, THIS is the kind of attitude that puts most off showing. The stuffy regimented old fashioned attitude. Maybe at HOYS such a military approach is acceptble but at local level it's meant to be FUN. I wouldn't go up to a judge and start a random conversation during the class but nor would I expect such a 'I am God, don't talk to me, only bask in my superiority' attitude either. Thankfully most judges aren't like that.
 
Kallibear said:
Now, THIS is the kind of attitude that puts most off showing. The stuffy regimented old fashioned attitude. Maybe at HOYS such a military approach is acceptble but at local level it's meant to be FUN. I wouldn't go up to a judge and start a random conversation during the class but nor would I expect such a 'I am God, don't talk to me, only bask in my superiority' attitude either. Thankfully most judges aren't like that.
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This exactly. I think it's ridiculous that if a judge says "hello" to you, you cannot say hello back!!! These old fashioned attitudes need to be eradicated.
 
s4sugar said:
Addressing the judge is not on - imagine how it would look to the ringside. If anything needs to be said it should be a word to the steward.
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Heaven Forbid! ;)

I'd like to think you were joking, but it seems you are serious. No wonder showing has a reputation for being a snotty environment!
 
MotherOfChickens said:
exactly, it's no longer the 1800's where I would have to doff my cap or tug my forelock. ridiculous-but there again, alot about showing is ridiculous.
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It is about being seen to be fair - how often do we get people coming on here moaning about a judge chatting with one rider? If you watch the professionals they observe the conventions -type, turnout & behaviour. At local shows leeway is allowed but the basics still apply. An adult would be expected to know what to do even a novice. A child would be given more leeway.

You pay your money and are expected to do your part as is the judge. We have only heard one side and from what has been written it sounds like someone seriously needs help, not just with showing.
 
s4sugar said:
It is about being seen to be fair - how often do we get people coming on here moaning about a judge chatting with one rider? .
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I was just starting to write this. If someones chatting away to the judge, you can guarantee next thing you know other people will be writing on a forum saying they obviously knew each other, it's favouritism, blah blah blah.
 
You're not allowed to say hello to a judge? How blooming ridiculous! This is why I hate showing, yes hate it. A circle of a lot of snooty, up-their-own-bum, bitchy, corrupt snobs.

If someone spoke to me like that, i'd tell her to F off very loudly and exit the ring sharpish- what a horrible woman!
 
s4sugar said:
You pay your money and are expected to do your part as is the judge. We have only heard one side and from what has been written it sounds like someone seriously needs help, not just with showing.
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Sounds like the Judge was on a power trip, and "etiquette" didn't have that much to do with it.
 
Mardy Mare said:
You're not allowed to say hello to a judge? How blooming ridiculous! This is why I hate showing, yes hate it. A circle of a lot of snooty, up-their-own-bum, bitchy, corrupt snobs.
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Wow. What a ridiculous thing to say. Tar everyone with the same ridiculous brush, why don't you.
 
s4sugar said:
It is about being seen to be fair - how often do we get people coming on here moaning about a judge chatting with one rider? If you watch the professionals they observe the conventions -type, turnout & behaviour. At local shows leeway is allowed but the basics still apply. An adult would be expected to know what to do even a novice. A child would be given more leeway.
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what has that got to do with saying hello instead of good morning/afternoon though? I get the turnout thing,the type thing etc I might even get the 'dont talk to the judge' thing in a bigger competition for the reasons you mentioned, but not the greeting thing. anyway, like I said, lots about this not entirely believable.
 
What a terrible way to be treated. Feel very sorry for your sister. We all have to learn sometime and I certainly have made loads of mistakes in the show ring but am lucky that the judges have all been VERY diplomatic and dignified when they have pointed out my errors... Such as 'hmm, that trot must have been lovely to SIT to?', I had no idea that you can't sit for trot in showing!. Not everyone has come from a showing or riding background and been taught the 'rules' from a young age.

Maybe your sister would try a showing clinic as an interim measure? ask about for nice judges to show under and try and choose someone supportive. Have riding lessons with someone who judges?. Showing is a huge amount of hard work and expense and at a low level the sport should be welcoming novices and encouraging them, very disappointing.
 
Capriole said:
Wow. What a ridiculous thing to say. Tar everyone with the same ridiculous brush, why don't you.
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If you read my comment correctly, you will see I didn't tar everyone with the same brush and said 'a lot of.'

I'm sorry but I can't see why anyone would defend what the judge said and the way she behaved, and then try and turn it around saying in effect that the OP's sister has the problem.

I think anyone would be offended and upset if they were spoken to the way the judge did to this competitor. I don't think the OP's sister has a problem. Maybe a bit insecure, shy and nervous, but alot of people are.
 
From my experience this sort of thing is a lot more common at local shows. The better the shows, the more experienced the judges and normally the less likely they are to be unpleasant.
 
OP, I really do sympathise for your sister, not a nice experience.

My daughter was VERY shy (I say was, as she is improving) and when she was little, if someone asked her a question, she would look at me waiting for me to answer them. It's taken a long time for her confidence to grow, but riding (and competing, and being around horses) has helped her so much.

The better she has got at riding, the more confidence she has grown. The more she has competed, the more confidence she has gained and the better her nerves have got. Because in life, generally, the better we get at something the more confidence we get in ourselves.

Now, kids ask her questions, and ask for her help. And off she goes, teaching them how to tack up, or plait up, or correcting their diagonals. And there she is, SPEAKING!!! Not shy anymore.

So please, please, don't let your sister stop competing. Because the more she does, the more it will help her find her voice. As someone above very wisely said, get her grooming for you first, so she can see it was a one off. Then find a nice regular judge at an event, and get your sister to enter that class too. A judge that you know will look after her - even have a quite word with the show organiser if it's a small local event.

We've all had these judges. We once went to a show where my daughter walked out of line for the judge and halted beautifully in front of her. The judges only words to her were "I hate gingers. Off you go then"!!!!!! (pony is chestnut!) Well daughter was mortified, and was visably, immediately a nervous wreck. However she put in a lovely show and was pulled in second place out of 15. She must have somehow made up for poor Dolly's ginger affliction!!!!

Anyway, in short, please do let the experience put your sister off. Just gently keep on at her.

Don't let the rude judge win. x
 
Baggybreeches said:
Not getting into whether it's entirely factual account but as you were shocked by the judge's manners (or lack of), may I just say that it was rude for your sister to leave the ring without being excused. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Screw that. The judge sounded like an evil cow - I would probably have done the same thing if a judge was this rude to me, in fact I probably would have told her where to go before doing so! OP, try to get your sister to come and groom for you or something, then maybe she'll eventually see not many judges are like this. Most that Ive come across have always been very polite and nice as they should be.
 
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