Rude youngster, advice pls

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showley1

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My youngster ( yearling) has suddenly developed some unacceptable behaviour and nothing we try seems to stop it. A few weeks ago the horses came in for winter and since has started barging her stable door if you approach with feed bucket. Can work in arena and she will move backwards on command and respect your space but put a stable door and feed bucket in the mix and she is terrible, this morning I had to tie her at rear of stable (barn type) to enter with feed. Helpful advice appreciated.
 
Has she ad lib hay or haylage? In case she is over excited or anxious about food due to hunger? Or could you hang a hook on feedbowl over her stable door?
 
Yes she does, well till she eats it all , butshe has 2 large haynets filled twice a day, could hook a feed bowl but would also like to solve the problem a bargy youngster is 1 thing but in 2 years time?Just cant think how to get her to back up and respect the space and door.
 
You said she's ok in the arena, why not try practising with an empty bucket there? And loads of making her back up in her stable without a bucket. Then start using the empty bucket in the stable, etc. That's my best guess :)

Someone who knows will arrive soon!
 
Can't you tie her up outside and then fetch her feed, that's what I do so my now 2 year old learnt not to bang for food. Mine actually just gets a balancer when she's brought in, tied up and her hay is already in stable ready. Yep they do test you. What I did was walk away when she banged or pawed out if sight and then only returned when she was quiet to let her out. Didn't take long for her to realise making a noise did not get her any attention.
 
Can't you turn her out?

I personally would not keep a youngster in the stable, certainly not at that age. Your second post suggests she is in 24/7, if that s the case you need to find her a different yard. If she is getting some turnout then she needs more.
 
She really needs turnout! Preferably living out, if she really is in 24/7 no wonder she is gonig nuts - so would I.
If she is out all day and only coming in at night then make sure she has plenty of hay before you turn up with the food.
 
I'm afraid I simply don't agree with youngsters being stabled for long periods of time. They should be out in a herd of others 24/7 unless they are being broken. They need to socialise with their own kind and age group and to rough it in the elements. Stabling them makes them soft and encourages bad stable habits through boredom. I appreciate that 24/7 turnout is hard to find but I would and have moved heaven and earth for my youngsters to ensure that it is provided until they come in to be worked.
If you really can't provide that then try getting some toys for her to play with to keep her occupied.
 
From your posts it seems that the horses on the yard came in for the winter. Does that mean no turn out or only restricted turn out? If so, for a horse that young I would look for other livery. Personally I would look for youngster livery where the horse can ge turned away in a herd of other youngsters on a hillside somewhere. Quite a few places like this around, you just need to ask about. Horses get checked ans cared for extremely well by the good providers as most top level riders do this with their youngsters. It let's a young horse be a young horse. I don't think there's anything wrong in teaching some manners early on but in my experience, horses that are well handled from birth to backing with no time turned away arelacking in the maturity department. They need ro be allowed to just be young with other youngsters.

I'd there is nothing you can do to change your routine, I cab only suggest real ad lib forage...which means they never eat it all. Less lessons in the school and more ust getting out and about. Follow people on hacks with your youngster in hand and make the handling less about education and more about just being a young horse.

We don't send children to school as babies. Your horse is still a baby...make sure you allow these next couple of years to be as natural as possible. Xx
 
Wheels said:
Can't you turn her out?

I personally would not keep a youngster in the stable, certainly not at that age. Your second post suggests she is in 24/7, if that s the case you need to find her a different yard. If she is getting some turnout then she needs more.
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This.

Or, if she has to be in, amymays idea.

But honestly, IME if you keep a yearling shut in it will be v unhappy and you'll have more behavioural problems as time goes on.
 
A girl on my old yard had this problem a while back with her weanling. It was bad enough that a behavioural expert came in and advised her that since leaving her mother, the foal was trying to establish herself within the pecking order. She was basically being territorial, and the advice given was to put her own scent in and around the stable before the pony came in. Ie make sure it's mucked out as soon as the pony goes out, then use your scent, maybe deodorant or something, leave a coat you use regularly on the door etc to make it clear that this is YOUR space and she's just here because you're allowing it.
 
kellybee said:
A girl on my old yard had this problem a while back with her weanling. It was bad enough that a behavioural expert came in and advised her that since leaving her mother, the foal was trying to establish herself within the pecking order. She was basically being territorial, and the advice given was to put her own scent in and around the stable before the pony came in. Ie make sure it's mucked out as soon as the pony goes out, then use your scent, maybe deodorant or something, leave a coat you use regularly on the door etc to make it clear that this is YOUR space and she's just here because you're allowing it.
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That is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have ever heard! The weanling would have been better off out with other youngsters learning how to interact with other horses, which they tend to carry over to their behaviour with humans.
 
She was turned out 24/7 until coming to us 4 month ago she was then stabled with restricted turn out to get used to other horses on yard and being caught. Then she was turned away with the rest coming in daily 4 a feed and turned back out. Yo decided end of sept all horses must come in 4 winter meaning they go on restricted to 3 days a week. I do agree not the best way 4 a youngster and am looking for somewhere else for her but in my area it is really hard just to find available yards let alone 24hr turnout. Any info Yorkshire area be good? Only thing she does in school is just basic manners as she came to us completely unhandled. How would I do ad lib in stable environment?
 
I think you will find the rest of her manners will greatly deteriorate soon being kept this way too. Apart from needing turnout for her limbs she also needs horse company and interaction, she is a baby. I really would look for a stud in your area who can give you 24/7 winter turnout alongside other youngsters. She won't forget you - you can visit - and that really would be the best thing for her.

Edited to add, put her hay on the floor, plenty of it too, so she never runs out - babies shouldn't be restricted by having to fiddle with haynets (I know not everyone agrees with this, but it is my view). Properly feeding a youngster is not cheap and she needs constant forage, best to waste some than have her going hungry for a few hours if her net runs out.
 
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HBM1 said:
I think you will find the rest of her manners will greatly deteriorate soon being kept this way too. Apart from needing turnout for her limbs she also needs horse company and interaction, she is a baby. I really would look for a stud in your area who can give you 24/7 winter turnout alongside other youngsters. She won't forget you - you can visit - and that really would be the best thing for her.
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Was just going to write something along these lines.
Where in Yorkshire are you? There are more livery yards than puddings there these days do you shouldn't have much trouble.
 
She is kept in an American style barn so
Does have ' company' although they can only touch noses, will try the stud farm route that could be a good solution will start googling my area and see if thats available, in meantime will buy her some extra toys ( she has a boredom breaker) and try feeding hay from floor, not too fussed on cost just want her to be happy
 
West Yorkshire so we don't have that many around me would even settle for daily turnout and in on a night to what she currently has would be better
 
My youngster has never wintered out, and equally not all studs winter out either.
There has been research somewhere (I'm sure I saw it on here) that so long as they get a certain amount of movement every day (and it wasn't a huge amount) then it didn't affect bone development etc. so long as baby gets out for some in hand exercise or free time in a ménage etc, then OP just has to make the most of what they have.

Anyway, opinions on how OP keeps his/her youngster wasn't what this thread was originally for.

My youngster was bargy as a yearling when I bought him, and I think it was probably due to him being fed in the field with his brother (who still has feeding time issues - but I don't have him). All I did was take a schooling whip into the stable with me and if he went to barge I slapped it on the floor in front of his feet. He soon got the hint. He is now perfectly well mannered with feeds and backs up when he sees his dinner as he knows he will get it quicker that way.

I think a lot of babies can go through a bit of a Kevin stage at 18 months....
 
Patterdale said:
Yes but in this case the way the horse is kept is almost certainly the cause of its bad behaviour.
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But really, how can you be so sure without actually seeing the horse?

Mine was out 24/7 and just in for a feed when he started with the same behaviour. Horses, like people are individuals. What bothers one horse won't bother another.
 
We are all governed by the availability of facilities, but severely restrictive turn out for young horses is a recipe for disaster, both mentally and physically.
 
Rachyblue..I think it fairly safe to link current behaviour to being in a stable so long as it has only just started. Yes many studs offer winter barning..that's fine too as long as she can move around and play with others it will help.
 
I don't think it is just a matter of how turnout affects growth or manners. Kept in a natural environment a youngster will leap about, charge around and generally keep moving - as it should, it will develop underlying musculature and strength. I couldn't envisage horses being stabled much until they are 4 or 5 years old. I personally hate them kept in big barns much of the time also, but that is personal preference.
We have 2 yearlings at our yard and I do have a moan at the owners if they bring them in much, but then I am a tyrant, would prefer to see them hairy, covered in mud & mooching in the field.
 
siennamum said:
I don't think it is just a matter of how turnout affects growth or manners. Kept in a natural environment a youngster will leap about, charge around and generally keep moving - as it should, it will develop underlying musculature and strength. I couldn't envisage horses being stabled much until they are 4 or 5 years old. I personally hate them kept in big barns much of the time also, but that is personal preference.
We have 2 yearlings at our yard and I do have a moan at the owners if they bring them in much, but then I am a tyrant, would prefer to see them hairy, covered in mud & mooching in the field.
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These were the reasons behind my post too. It is not so much about the rights or wrongs of stabling a young horse but the overall good that undeniably comes from a young horse being allowed to be a young horse and the most natural way for that to happen is being part of a herd.

I've not had anything at that age myself. What I do have though is a great deal of experience working with 3-5yr old that I have backed and started over the years...hundreds of them. I wrote reports for each and every one and one of the "patterns" that I noticed was that horses that came to me practically wild were more difficult to work with initially, but when at the point of walk, trot and canter and popping small fences, they were well behaved, easy to do, no fuss horses. Those that were homebred and handled every day until coming to me generally had more manners in terms of their handling, but were more pushy, temperamental and argumentative through the training. They were more like people to deal with than horses. Of course there were exceptions and this is a very simplistic breakdown of what I found through my own experience. That said...it has got me to a point where I believe that horses benefit greatly from being given a few years to just be "horse".

Again, as said in my other post, this isn't always possible, but I do still think it's important to let a baby be a baby. The OP has said she doesn't do much training really and that's great. It would be great IMO, if the yard can't be changed that this baby be turned out in the arena regularly to just have a mooch about or a prat around. I know when mine are in 24/7 when the fields are flooded, they are much happier after a prat about and time in the arena than they are having been ridden or put on the walker. They get to roll and sniff and snort and go nuts and roll again and just enjoy the space and fresh air.

Walks in hand, going to a local grassy area when possible to just sit and let the baby graze for a few hours while you read a book or something. There are things that can be done in any situation, so I don't see the need for any judgement, either of the OP or of anyone sharing their own personal thoughts and opinions.

When horses have to be kept in and there is no medical restriction put on them, I tend to look at it as treating them like they are dogs. They have to be let out regularly, walked regularly and kept mentally and physically satisfied :-)
 
AdorableAlice said:
We are all governed by the availability of facilities, but severely restrictive turn out for young horses is a recipe for disaster, both mentally and physically.
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I agree with this. IMO, if you cannot offer a decent length of turnout time then you probably shouldn't own a horse for the same sort of reason I would assume a person living in a tiny flat wouldn't buy a massive dog. A stable is just a cage at the end of the day (as described so well by a fellow HHO'er the other day), leave your horse in it for hours and of course it's going to get bored to death!

One of my horses was stabled most of his life with very limited turnout, when I got him I literally had to teach him to be outside (when I put him out to begin with, he thought he was only out for his usual 20 mins so he just galloped around solidly!). It took about 6 months of slowly increasing the time and space he had and now he's out 24/7 loving it. The change in his temperament is amazing - he's so chilled out now, a totally different horse.
 
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