Rude youngster advice

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showley1

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I recently purchased a yearling sec d ( v recently only had her a few days to be fair to her ) she is absolutely stunning and bloody opinionated! The problem being she seems to like to lash out with her front legs, she can be v nervous especially around her head and I do believe it is a defence thing my problem is anyone any advice on how to get her out of it without making her more nervous. Any idea's appreciated?
 
Patience is your friend, I have a 5yr old mainly white cob, he needs protection from sunburn on his nose and from flies and he protests about having it done, suncream, I hold my hand up till he stands, then try to apply suncream, he moves, I start again, eventually he stands for it to be applied, fly spray, I follow him around, (he's on a lead rope) spraying fly repellant, verbal reassurance, when he stands, I stop spraying, he's getting better every time
 
Thanks I am just worried about someone else getting struck, think will just handle her myself for next few weeks x
 
she's new to you, she's a she, she's a yearling and she's Welsh...... in every way, she's going to be testing you!!

Patience, persistence and consistency and she'll learn
 
Thanks it is the pawing I don't like as i don't want to react and make her more nervous, she is a baby , but don't want her to think it is acceptable either ? X
 
It probably doesn't help, but she will grow out of it. I would just keep to one side and persist in handling her quietly until she becomes less defensive
 
You need to work at a speed and level she is comfortable with so she does not feel the need to strike out, as she gains trust you will be able to do more. I only let two other people handle my mare as everytime anyone else gets involved her behaivour changes for the worse, I have owned mine for 6 years, I handles her for the first year of her life and know she has never been harshly handled but rough handling upsets her
 
Striking out with her front feet is an unusual way for a scared horse to behave. IME I would expect her to spin round & show you her bum. I wouldn't mistake scared of you/environment with uncertainty about her new life. She is trying to create some order & may actually be striking out to ensure she is in charge of you.
If she is a dominant character then I wouldn't be ignoring the behaviour or pussyfooting around with her assuming she is just scared.

I think the worse thing you can do with youngsters is handle them tentatively. I would either do some groundwork with her to instil respect & a response to her cow kicking or I would put her in a mixed herd where another horse will do so.
 
siennamum said:
Striking out with her front feet is an unusual way for a scared horse to behave. IME I would expect her to spin round & show you her bum. I wouldn't mistake scared of you/environment with uncertainty about her new life. She is trying to create some order & may actually be striking out to ensure she is in charge of you.
If she is a dominant character then I wouldn't be ignoring the behaviour or pussyfooting around with her assuming she is just scared.

I think the worse thing you can do with youngsters is handle them tentatively. I would either do some groundwork with her to instil respect & a response to her cow kicking or I would put her in a mixed herd where another horse will do so.
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Working within a horses comfort zone in order to create confidence does not mean working tentatively-horses often strike out in front as a defensive measure if in a tight space or being restricted from turning their body round to 'show their bum', the OP states the yearling is nervous around her head and she has only had her a couple of days, in order to create confidence you have to be confident.

'cow kicking' is with the hind legs not the fore legs
 
She is being handled confidently, she is not my first youngster, she has come from a quiet environment with 1 to 1 contact to a busy livery yard with lots of noises people, so trying to work out the best tactic to help her confidence grow but balance it so she knows her place. If anyone e has any experience / advice would be appreciated. She did try strike also in the arena last night which worried me was a dominance issue?. She is not nasty in the stable just timid. Thinking maybe try some natural horsemanship with her.
 
I have a young welsh part bred and this was one of her tricks. I find she does it as a sign of inpatience or frustration I have corrected her when she's done it told her no and a smack if she continue to paw followed by praise when she stands nicely. She's definitely stopped doing it around me and now that she's ld enough to start working think this helps. We had other problems where she started getting a little food aggressive nothing too bad but I wanted to nip it in the bud so I worked with her so that she now waits for her food and got a cheeky shetland companion to give her a playmate and teach her some manners. She still paws when she's tied up if she can't see me and when being fed holds her front leg up occasionally but she's a well mnnered horse to handle and definitely not nervous or scared of me. I would be firm but fair with your youngster and spend lots of time letting her get used to you :) also look at a field companion if you haven't got one now and it's a possibility.
 
I will had that she has caught me out twice in 2 years by doing this luckily she wasn't putting any force behind it but I still had a nice bruise so be careful and on full alert at all times especially while he is settling with you now.
 
fburton said:
OP isn't another horse and doesn't live in her herd. Is OP competing with her horse for something?
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Some horses can try to be dominent over humans too, surely you want the horse to see you as a leader so when you get to new maybe scary experiences your horse trusts you to lead them through it. Sounds like OP is worried that this behaviour could be the youngster challenging her instructions, does this answer the question? Not sure what your asking.
 
epeters91 said:
Some horses can try to be dominent over humans too, surely you want the horse to see you as a leader so when you get to new maybe scary experiences your horse trusts you to lead them through it. Sounds like OP is worried that this behaviour could be the youngster challenging her instructions, does this answer the question? Not sure what your asking.
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Leadership is different from dominance, even for horses. The qualities that make a good leader - which we want to be for our horses - are not the same as those needed to dominate them. Unfortunately, it is common for the two to get mixed up, especially in "natural horsemanship" circles.

Also, I would question that many behaviours that people describe as dominance towards humans are really that, rather than simply aggression, lack of manners, or bad habits that have been acquired because the handler let them. I do think dominance-related aggression exists, but that happens where someone has deliberately set themselves up to be seen by the horse as a competitor for something like food, and it doesn't sound to me as if that is OP's problem.
 
fburton said:
OP isn't another horse and doesn't live in her herd. Is OP competing with her horse for something?
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i think thats an odd way of looking at it. Horses try to assert themselves as *in charge* in many millions of small ways and every time they make us move our feet around them, thats what they are doing!

striking out is normally a dominance thing, fear would be tuck tail down and spin away.

wear a good solid pair of boots and when she paws or strikes out give her a sharp(not full force before anyone starts moaning) kick in the shin, so she thinks kicking you hurts!

unhandled or not they cant just walk all over you.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
i think thats an odd way of looking at it. Horses try to assert themselves as *in charge* in many millions of small ways and every time they make us move our feet around them, thats what they are doing!
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The idea that horses are trying to make us move our feet and in doing so are dominating us seems very odd to me, although I realize that it has gained enormous popularity in recent times because of some high profile NH advocates.

striking out is normally a dominance thing, fear would be tuck tail down and spin away.
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It's certainly an aggression thing - but there are lots of causes of aggression other than dominance.

wear a good solid pair of boots and when she paws or strikes out give her a sharp(not full force before anyone starts moaning) kick in the shin, so she thinks kicking you hurts!
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I think this is reasonable advice, based in straightforward application of learning theory and nothing to do with social dominance.

unhandled or not they cant just walk all over you.
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Agreed - I just feel that couching the problem in terms of dominance (rather than simply unwanted behaviour) is unhelpful.
 
I do agree that it is not necessarily dominance as I explained in my post my own youngster mainly did it out of frustration/impatience or food aggression. I'm sure the OP will be able to see patterns and decide what is causing the aggression whether it is to challenge her leadship, attempt dominance or out of frustration etc.
 
epeters91 said:
I do agree that it is not necessarily dominance as I explained in my post my own youngster mainly did it out of frustration/impatience or food aggression. I'm sure the OP will be able to see patterns and decide what is causing the aggression whether it is to challenge her leadship, attempt dominance or out of frustration etc.
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Yes, I think OP's response needs to be informed by her specific experience and knowledge of the horse. General advice is fine as long as it doesn't assume an incorrect underlying cause for the behaviour!
 
fburton said:
The idea that horses are trying to make us move our feet and in doing so are dominating us seems very odd to me, although I realize that it has gained enormous popularity in recent times because of some high profile NH advocates.


It's certainly an aggression thing - but there are lots of causes of aggression other than dominance.


I think this is reasonable advice, based in straightforward application of learning theory and nothing to do with social dominance.


Agreed - I just feel that couching the problem in terms of dominance (rather than simply unwanted behaviour) is unhelpful.
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in part i know what you mean-MOVE HIS FEET has become the cure all, but generally (the very few real oddballs not included) the pushy rude horses i see every time i go to yards to teach, suffer from lack of boundaries and will literally push and pull their riders around so in this sense, they move the riders feet and it cements the idea that they are in charge of what they want to do and when and where.

mostly the first time you get up in their face and make them reverse away at speed they are shocked that you moved them away. equally,the ones that go on strike and wont move are startled when you get behind them and lunge them forward. so in some ways the foot moving concept does work, but it can become a bit of a cheesy cure all i guess.
 
My lad did a bit of striking out in front last year as he was going through his 'kevins'. I stayed to the side of him, and handled him firmly and kindly, except for growling 'NO' at him when he did it. The message to him was that this has no effect on me, but I don't approve of it. He no longer does it. I'm sure he was just trying to get a rise out of me.
 
TBH a move for a youngster from a small yard with one to one work and attention to a large yard, I would chuck her out and do nothing with her for a couple of weeks and let her adjust and I certainly would not e taking her in the school in my eyes there is nothing to gain from it at this stage other than overwhelming a yearling and provoking bad behaivour
 
The arena is just for exercise nothing more as she is still in quarenteen and can't be thrown out with the rest yet!!
 
pennyturner said:
My lad did a bit of striking out in front last year as he was going through his 'kevins'. I stayed to the side of him, and handled him firmly and kindly, except for growling 'NO' at him when he did it. The message to him was that this has no effect on me, but I don't approve of it. He no longer does it. I'm sure he was just trying to get a rise out of me.
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Well that savedme posting! Agree entirely Pennyturner.
 
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