rugging ?????

[maccachic]

We are on the otherside of winter to you guys, my WB had a rug (100g) on for prob a week max in total over winter she was always warm and happy. I don't clip anymore either as in my view they spend a lot less time out of a day unridden and not needing a clip mine hunt no problems unclipped. Plus there is no way to keep under bellies protected if you take it all off as well.

There is a big difference in my opinion between being unrugged in a field and stuck in a stable / yard where they cannot move - I don't stable but would rug and check temp in this situation.

 

[Auslander]

I think some people forget that the horse has considerably thicker skin than a human, and a fur coat. Seems that rugs start going on when humans get a bit chilly.

 

[Moomin1]

I think some people forget that the horse has considerably thicker skin than a human, and a fur coat. Seems that rugs start going on when humans get a bit chilly.

Agree.

The other thing people seem not to realise is that shivering, in a normal young healthy horse is not going to kill them. Fine, if they are old, ill or underweight, or drop weight excessively in cooler weather (though I would argue there's something else amiss if that were the case anyway), but any normal average horse is not going to die if it shivers for a short while.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i dont agree with over rugging at all,in any way.

however....

its all very well to say 99% of horses can cope un-rugged and to elave rugs off for as long as possible etc.............which fine for a horse in no, or very light work, who will only be partially clipped and isnt super fit.

It just doesnt work like that for fit, stabled competition horses that are working and sweating hard daily.

I dont want to encourage a thick coat, as i dont want to have to clip any more often than i already do. I dont want them shivering off the bleeding expensive food i shovel down them, or running round like idiots to keep warm and tweaking themselves.

i dont want them to get cold and wet and stand tensed up against the weather after i spend hundreds of pounds on massages etc to keep them loose and supple and a fully tuned athlete.

I also am far too busy to be cleaning up filthy dirty horses to ride.

Currently we have one in a no neck LW,one in a full neck LW and one in a 100g full neck, during the day.

They are always stabled at night and we have 2 in thermatexes and 1 in a 120gm no neck.

they are not hot, itchy, sweaty, or in any way uncomfortable and for what they do, what is expected of them, this works best.

there is no rule that works for every horse. I would never tell soemone to clip and put 3 rugs on their fat,retired native. dont tell me im doing something wrong by treating a poor doer TB in very hard work differently!

our retired boy will go 99% of the winter in only a 200gm rug and wont be clipped but the 2 fully clipped ones will wear a few layers and will be happier for it.

 

[Moomin1]

i dont agree with over rugging at all,in any way.

however....

its all very well to say 99% of horses can cope un-rugged and to elave rugs off for as long as possible etc.............which fine for a horse in no, or very light work, who will only be partially clipped and isnt super fit.

It just doesnt work like that for fit, stabled competition horses that are working and sweating hard daily.

I dont want to encourage a thick coat, as i dont want to have to clip any more often than i already do. I dont want them shivering off the bleeding expensive food i shovel down them, or running round like idiots to keep warm and tweaking themselves.

i dont want them to get cold and wet and stand tensed up against the weather after i spend hundreds of pounds on massages etc to keep them loose and supple and a fully tuned athlete.

I also am far too busy to be cleaning up filthy dirty horses to ride.

Currently we have one in a no neck LW,one in a full neck LW and one in a 100g full neck, during the day.

They are always stabled at night and we have 2 in thermatexes and 1 in a 120gm no neck.

they are not hot, itchy, sweaty, or in any way uncomfortable and for what they do, what is expected of them, this works best.

there is no rule that works for every horse. I would never tell soemone to clip and put 3 rugs on their fat,retired native. dont tell me im doing something wrong by treating a poor doer TB in very hard work differently!

our retired boy will go 99% of the winter in only a 200gm rug and wont be clipped but the 2 fully clipped ones will wear a few layers and will be happier for it.

The majority of the reasons you give PS for rugging your horses to the extent you do, is for your own benefit. Which is fine, so long as the horses don't suffer as a result.

So many people these days are convinced that their horses need rugging because they cannot cope without. HW's on average neds in 10 degrees 'because it was raining and I felt chilly and had the fire on at home' etc...That is when it gets ridiculous.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I dont want to encourage a thick coat, as i dont want to have to clip any more often than i already do. I dont want them shivering off the bleeding expensive food i shovel down them, or running round like idiots to keep warm and tweaking themselves.

i dont want them to get cold and wet and stand tensed up against the weather after i spend hundreds of pounds on massages etc to keep them loose and supple and a fully tuned athlete.

.

I do completely agree but what I will say (with my bodyworker hat on) is that layers of rugs often cause tension and pressure points in horses because so many people don't allow for the fact they are layering-especially on the wither and on the neck where full neck rugs are used. You know enough to realise this, most owners just chuck more rugs on without giving it a second thought.

The only time I've seen my Exmoors shiver is when we have squally weather and they have summer coats-week last Friday actually. I am always pretty glad to see it, means the wee ******* are expending some energy.

 

[nikkimariet]

The majority of the reasons you give PS for rugging your horses to the extent you do, is for your own benefit. Which is fine, so long as the horses don't suffer as a result.

So many people these days are convinced that their horses need rugging because they cannot cope without. HW's on average neds in 10 degrees 'because it was raining and I felt chilly and had the fire on at home' etc...That is when it gets ridiculous.

But for what we want our horses to be capable of, the routine we have is best for the horses too. IE wouldn't be fair to ask a horse with full coat to do the training ours do. So whilst a smooth, clean horse works best for us, that is fairest for the horse too. We are obsessive about clean and tidy, that's just us, but of no detriment to the horses well being

Absolutely - it was a real eye opener having Bruce totally feral over winter as we were surprised at just *how* warm he was. (even though me and PS freezing cold!!!)

I do completely agree but what I will say (with my bodyworker hat on) is that layers of rugs often cause tension and pressure points in horses because so many people don't allow for the fact they are layering-especially on the wither and on the neck where full neck rugs are used. You know enough to realise this, most owners just chuck more rugs on without giving it a second thought.

The only time I've seen my Exmoors shiver is when we have squally weather and they have summer coats-week last Friday actually. I am always pretty glad to see it, means the wee ******* are expending some energy.

We think pretty hard about what rugs ours have on - all seams have a lycra patch sewn over, and sheepskin pads at the wither. And there are some brands that are a no go for each of them, and some styles that some just can't wear. Fig will only have 1 neck on in the field (always the top) but never in the stable (unless just been bathed, and once dry, neck comes off!). CS with his muscle issues is better for having 2 layers on his neck, and one in the stable. All have full manes, no rubs and totally happy Horses bodyworker 100% happy with how they are.

Not jumping to the defense of what we do, more an explanation of the thought process behind it We must look at the weather a hundred times night before and on the morning before choosing rugs and turning out!

 

[Kylara]

My native cross oldie has a Boett on in the summer for the flies and if the weather gets bad he gets a lightweight rainsheet over the top as the shelter isn't great against rain. He gets nice and fluffy in the winter but as we are on a hill and facing the downs we get horrible winds and horizontal rain so he will have a lightweight rug on when he is out once that weather sets in. he only gets his heavyweight rug on when the weather starts getting really bad due to his age and the shelter issues (trees and hedges on two sides, but the rain often comes tearing up the middle where there is no shelter). He gets haylage in the field once the grass is down and seems pretty good. he always loses the excess fat over winter, and when the weather gets really bad he comes in over night to dry his feet and desoak (sometimes soaks through the lightweight before we switch rugs!) and he gets a lightweight quilted stable rug so he doesn't get pooped on by birds and because he is an oldie.
Also just feel bad for the show ponies that are heavily rugged up all the time so they have nice coats and don't get dirty

The show driving ponies I work with have just started moulting like crazy and they are grey so they have their winter rugs on now to slow the fluff building before their last big show, then they will be left as is with no rug unless we decide to clip them or until the rain sets it

 

[Spotsrock]

Sounds sensible OP.

The yard down the road had two ponies out in July in turnouts, in full sun in the middle of the day. There was no shade in the field! What is wrong with people?

We have limited shade and mine dont tend to stand in it if the others are.

My 2 wear something most days, from the road I suppose they would look rugged with no shade - could be me lol!!

In summer they have fly rugs on - light coloured to reflect the sun. One has pink skin and is in terrible pain with sun burn if not covered, also means I can't ride as her saddle patch gets too sore. Plus I worry about skin cancer. The other is a tough as boots tb with wimpy skin so he wants to live out and be a boy - living out is great for his ulcer prone tummy too - but the flies bring him out in huge bumps, queue more not being able to ride if they land on his back and a very irritated unhappy horse.

Because I don't like wet fly rugs flapping round them at night as it gets cooler (below about 9 degrees) they each have a waterproof fly rug - fab invention - that goes on instead at night if it is forecast to rain heavily. These have a waterproof strip from ears to tail but fly rug material everywhere else.

Both of mine are groomed everyday and, not so much at present as I am in foal, but they're usually washed a couple of times a month to compete so not much in the way of natural oils in the coat meaning they have lost their natural sun, fly, wind and rain protection, so I protect them accordingly. My pink skinned one is rarely without a fly mask to protect her eyes from sunburn (she is partially sighted one side as it is) untill well into the autumn.

In winter I clip to the work they do and rug to the clip they have and I see no harm in that but I do very often see posts from people criticising those who rug (comment not aimed at the post I quoted!).

My pink skinned pony lived in a ladies kitchen in the winters from 5 months old till I bought her at 2 years and slept by the aga. She also has a tendency to slip a disc in her back so getting cold and tense can aggrevate this. Last year I went away in September which was a mild month. When I came back she was (clipped) naked with sunburn, an inch of hair growth and shivering because my friend decided it was too warm for a rainsheet rug at night. She also needed physio on her back. I am of course grateful to friend for looking after her and everything else was done better than I would have done it! Some horses just feel a chill in the air, she'd snuggle up on the sofa with me if hubby would allow it!

My more native type is 34 (she's half tb though) and has a rain sheet on at night if it's below about 9 degrees. I did find she was actually cooler in a light coloured fly rug this year than without it and the flies were quite bad so that worked well! I think it's along the lines that people who live in hot countries actually cover up to stay cool. Winter though she's proper hard! She usually has lighter rugs than the ridden 2 but then she is not clipped till spring (cushings).

Winter before last after everyone was making such a big deal on here and in RL about over rugging ect I did reduce her rugging but she came in very cold with a chill and we thought we were losing her so she has her rain sheet on at night at present and I continue to watch the weather forecast like a hawk!

I agree they don't all need rugging but I think you should rug to the horse and the weather you have not to the fashion or trends.

 

[only_me]

Bill, who lives out but has access to his stable, has been wearing a 80 (or maybe 100?)gram rug at night for the past couple of nights. The difference in day and night temp is quite a lot at present, and in winter the temp has much smaller differences.

He also has still got his summer coat (and dosent show any signs of changing yet) so he isn't equipped to deal with such large temp drops at night. In winter yes, will be better coping as he will have a thicker coat.

The field has excellent shelter, but if it gets too hot for bill he always comes up and stands in his stable himself!

What is wrong with people wanting to rug their horses? Their horse, their choice and as long as the horse isn't coming to harm whats the problem?

 

[Moomin1]

Bill, who lives out but has access to his stable, has been wearing a 80 (or maybe 100?)gram rug at night for the past couple of nights. The difference in day and night temp is quite a lot at present, and in winter the temp has much smaller differences.

He also has still got his summer coat (and dosent show any signs of changing yet) so he isn't equipped to deal with such large temp drops at night. In winter yes, will be better coping as he will have a thicker coat.

The field has excellent shelter, but if it gets too hot for bill he always comes up and stands in his stable himself!

What is wrong with people wanting to rug their horses? Their horse, their choice and as long as the horse isn't coming to harm whats the problem?

I think that's the point a lot of people try to make - a lot of horses do come to harm with over rugging. Rugging does appear to be very much a fashionable thing to do these days, and I would put money on most horses not actually requiring them for their own health and wellbeing if they have correct management.

For the record, I rug my mare so I am not anti rugging at all. I am just anti over-rugging lol!

 

[Auslander]

I'm not planning to clip this year, and i'm interested to see how long they go without needing rugs on. Wouldn't mind at all if they turned into bears and didn't need rugs at all, but they are 17 and 20, and have always been pampered comp horses, so they may have different ideas!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i think some people are too quick to jump to conclusions(the wrong conclusions!)

99% of people with horses work and are rushing and short on time. They dont want to spend their precious free time scraping mud off, or drying a sweaty hairy horse.

clipping and rugging ARE for the owners convenience but the main point of having a horse is to ride it/have fun with it, not just stand admiring its wooly coat! In return for this *convenient care* the horse receives love, food, shelter, medical attention etc from its owner.

and if that horse is native or cob who technically could live naked, but the owner wants to ride so rugs and clips, who are you to judge?

i dont think its a thing to do with fashion and more a sign of the times-busy people, busy lives, making things just a touch quicker/easier. and why shouldnt they.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think that's the point a lot of people try to make - a lot of horses do come to harm with over rugging. Rugging does appear to be very much a fashionable thing to do these days, and I would put money on most horses not actually requiring them for their own health and wellbeing if they have correct management.

This ^^^^^^

Of course some horses are vulnerable for a variety of reasons; age, health issues, tendency to sunburn etc, etc but many are not and it is these horses which cause concern. When I read on here that the owners of unclipped horses are rugging routinely when the temp drops below 10 degrees, it worries me. Those horses should have enough coat to keep itself warm in dry weather, so long as it is being fed appropriately.
The problem is that many novice/inexperienced owners want to rug when they feel cold themselves, because they don't understand horses' physiology.

I am more likely to rug ours on a cold wet summer night, when the rain has been persistent over more than 24 hrs because the horses only have summer coats and we don't have much natural shelter.

 

[Auslander]

i think some people are too quick to jump to conclusions(the wrong conclusions!)

99% of people with horses work and are rushing and short on time. They dont want to spend their precious free time scraping mud off, or drying a sweaty hairy horse.

clipping and rugging ARE for the owners convenience but the main point of having a horse is to ride it/have fun with it, not just stand admiring its wooly coat! In return for this *convenient care* the horse receives love, food, shelter, medical attention etc from its owner.

and if that horse is native or cob who technically could live naked, but the owner wants to ride so rugs and clips, who are you to judge?

i dont think its a thing to do with fashion and more a sign of the times-busy people, busy lives, making things just a touch quicker/easier. and why shouldnt they.

Damn right! I clipped mine out last year, because he was in work, and he is a sweaty mud monster. He lives out most of the time, so I got a few comments, but he was very well rugged, and came out of winter looking, if anything, a bit fatter than I wanted.

 

[Moomin1]

i think some people are too quick to jump to conclusions(the wrong conclusions!)

99% of people with horses work and are rushing and short on time. They dont want to spend their precious free time scraping mud off, or drying a sweaty hairy horse.

clipping and rugging ARE for the owners convenience but the main point of having a horse is to ride it/have fun with it, not just stand admiring its wooly coat! In return for this *convenient care* the horse receives love, food, shelter, medical attention etc from its owner.

and if that horse is native or cob who technically could live naked, but the owner wants to ride so rugs and clips, who are you to judge?

i dont think its a thing to do with fashion and more a sign of the times-busy people, busy lives, making things just a touch quicker/easier. and why shouldnt they.

I think perhaps PS, we see a very different side of horse ownership and management on our daily rounds within the horsey world and that's where we have differing views in certain ways.

I agree that in the instance of someone who is competing to a high level, and providing a horse with every inch of care and attention it requires, then it matters not whether someone rugs or not provided it doesn't harm the horse. However, I do see, on a very regular basis, an increasing number of people who love to shove the latest HW rugs on their barely worked, hairy nag, who hasn't had it's feet done in six months (because of a 'lack of money'), and one thing which really craws me is that those people love to use the come back of "my horse is spoilt, he doesn't want for anything. He has a rug on the minute it rains because he's a real wimp hahaha!". Said horse is usually sweating away unchecked for days on end. People seem to think that because they rug their horse, they are 'spoiling' them rotten and providing them with a high level of care, which really riles me.

I certainly don't knock rugging for convenience by any means. I will put a no fill on my mare if it's chucking it down and she's due to be ridden. I clip her every winter and she is rugged according to the weather daily also. I just am amazed at the sheer amount of young, healthy horses (average nags now, not a high level comp horse in training) which seemingly, according to their owners, require a HW on in 10 degrees or thereabouts (example). I do very much think a lot of it is fashion these days.

 

[Kati*89]

I put a cotton sheet on Louis overnight when it was due to drop down to about 10, felt much fresher when I left at 7.30pm he has a very fine coat and we don't clip him so didn't want it to start coming though, came down in be morning to find a bog brush of a mane and tail where he had rubbed from being hot...I think it's safe to say although it was colder to us it wasn't to him!
Just have to clean the damn pooey stains off him now!
I check the temp a lot before I leave at night to see what's best but I think it will be a few more weeks until he needs anything.
His owner wouldn't let him be unrugged anyway but I have to be quite strict on not putting much on him, he just doesn't seem to need it but I don't want him getting hairy as I have huge doubt we could ever clip him and I carry on riding and competing through the winter so don't him getting hugely sweaty if his coat gets thick.

 

[*sprinkles*]

I saw a really interesting article, I wish I could remember the link and it was talking about how the horse's coat actually works in bad weather. Apparently, horses that have been allowed to grow a normal winter coat and are accustomed to being outdoors can regulate their own body temp down to -40 degrees C !! The only thing they cannot protect themselves against is wind chill which is solved by good shelter, natural or man made. They will likely be just fine and more comfortable. I always worry more about my horses overheating when the sun comes up at lunch time than being too cold during the night !!

 

[TheoryX1]

Really sensible advice, leaving them unrugged. We spend far too much time faffing about this in my opinion. Both of mine are naked still and one is, shock horror, a warmblood!

My 21 year old cob wintered out last year, unrugged for the first time. He was absolutely fine and came through pretty much unscathed. Mind you our field has shelter on all 4 sides and mostly plenty of grass, plus we didnt have a majorily severe winter in our area, just wet! Our warmblood will stay unrugged for as long as possible, mind you she is a hardy piece of work.

Even after a bout of arthritis and with ongoing treatment our vet has just told me to leave him unrugged, unless the weather takes a turn for the worse with biting wind and driving rain, or bad snow, even said if I was workikng him, bib clip him and leave him out unrugged, unless already mentioned weather conditions prevail of course.

 

[LadyRascasse]

My TB and TB X are still naked 24/7 (and out) the TB gets haylage twice a day as in a pen but the TB x is still unfed. Plenty of grass in his field.

 

[maccachic]

Mine used to hunts for 3hrs hard, A TB even, unclipped and barely rugged I find they roll more when their rugs are taken off then when they don't have them. But we rarely drop below 5 degrees here in winter.

 

[Embo]

Nobody here is anti-rugging. Most of us do, myself included, when there is need for it.

We are anti-over-rugging - like some of the examples given. Horses turned out in h/w with neck because it's chilly enough for owner to want a jumper in the morning, but then horse overheats when it warms up and is 20c+ by lunchtime. Stabled horses in heavyweights of 300-400g when the temperature is still between 10-15c at night (in my area anyway, depends where you are). How many rugs will these horses be wearing when it's actually cold? That is what the problem is here.

Most of us do rug for convenience because we work and don't have the time to clean a filthy horse or wait for it to dry off after riding. This is true, no dispute.

I regulary see horses looking like the Michelin Man becuse they are wearing 3, maybe 4 heavy/meduim rugs. This was last winter, and in Kent, where it was very mild. My own horse (at the time, a poor-doer sports horse who didn't grow much of a winter coat) was in a 200g medium/light during the day and a 250g at night. And he was toasty warm much of the time.

The problem here is not that we put rugs on our horses, it's how many we're needlessly putting on, possibly causing health problems.

 

[Chukkas]

In the field next to mine there are two large heavy type mares and one was rugged in the blazing heat on Saturday afternoon. It was a lightweight rug probably left on from the night before but that just tells me the owner isn't coming down often enough