Running Backwards on hacks

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Fizzythoroughbred

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Hi all,

I’m stuck! I have a horse who is really lovely to hack out until there’s a trailer or loud vehicle of some sort… he is getting worse and I’m avoiding hacking out as no matter how much I do, he just doesn’t improve! I don’t want to be put in a dangerous situation which I feel it’s coming too!

He runs backwards, now I’ve never known a horse to be able to run backwards so quickly and he will rear up and buck when he’s finished… the time I kept my leg on him when he was running backwards and he got faster and when I took my leg off, he bucked me off into some wooden poles/slabs (I ended up cracking a bone in my back).

I’ve recently been hand walking him out to see if this helps gain confidence etc with such vehicles but he reacts and rears up etc even when it’s on the road at the top of the lane and he can hear it…

I’m just stuck as he’s starting to use this running backwards even when spooking at small things (ridden and in hand). If he runs backwards into something, he freaks and that’s what happened with the wooden slabs, that incident has made him worse as he now freaks out more when running backwards.

I’m looking for some advice as I’m determined to crack this because he’s such an amazing horse when he’s not running backwards! He’s only 8 and I feel he needs to be given a chance.
 
Fizzythoroughbred said:
Hi all,

I’m stuck! I have a horse who is really lovely to hack out until there’s a trailer or loud vehicle of some sort… he is getting worse and I’m avoiding hacking out as no matter how much I do, he just doesn’t improve! I don’t want to be put in a dangerous situation which I feel it’s coming too!

He runs backwards, now I’ve never known a horse to be able to run backwards so quickly and he will rear up and buck when he’s finished… the time I kept my leg on him when he was running backwards and he got faster and when I took my leg off, he bucked me off into some wooden poles/slabs (I ended up cracking a bone in my back).

I’ve recently been hand walking him out to see if this helps gain confidence etc with such vehicles but he reacts and rears up etc even when it’s on the road at the top of the lane and he can hear it…

I’m just stuck as he’s starting to use this running backwards even when spooking at small things (ridden and in hand). If he runs backwards into something, he freaks and that’s what happened with the wooden slabs, that incident has made him worse as he now freaks out more when running backwards.

I’m looking for some advice as I’m determined to crack this because he’s such an amazing horse when he’s not running backwards! He’s only 8 and I feel he needs to be given a chance.
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I will add that I have long reined him etc and if he gets spooked he yanks the long reins out of your hands and darts off!
 
I presume he's had all the standard checks - teeth, back, maybe scoped for ulcers, tack fit? Does he behave the same with other people? Can you access his history to check whether he's had a trauma or accident of some kind involving trailers etc. What are you feeding him, what's his turnout situation? More details and background would help.
 
My horse did the running backwards at speed a few months ago. It was very scary as I couldn't think of what to do to stop him. It has really knocked my confidence in hacking him on his own. Just thankful that we didn't end up in a ditch or a fence. It seemed v dangerous as his brain was definitely NOT engaged.
 
Agree with all of the above - however, I did solve this same problem by accident (this is more an entertaining story than advice!!) on a horse I had as a project a few years ago. He went through a phase of deciding reverse was his preferred direction of travel for a period of a few weeks. One day he began his reversing early on into the hack whilst hacking up the track by our fields. He had not clocked that the electric fence was behind him, and reversed his bottom right into it. He was shocked twice whilst I sat quiet before he realised that forwards was a much better option. Safe to say he never did his reversing trick again out hacking 😅
 
Barklands said:
Agree with all of the above - however, I did solve this same problem by accident (this is more an entertaining story than advice!!) on a horse I had as a project a few years ago. He went through a phase of deciding reverse was his preferred direction of travel for a period of a few weeks. One day he began his reversing early on into the hack whilst hacking up the track by our fields. He had not clocked that the electric fence was behind him, and reversed his bottom right into it. He was shocked twice whilst I sat quiet before he realised that forwards was a much better option. Safe to say he never did his reversing trick again out hacking 😅
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Glad you didn't die! I guess!! 💀

"Vet and behaviourist" here too. I will add that a properly qualified behaviourist is what you want and not a natural horsemanship/animal communicator/ horse whisperer. The ABTC register is a good place to start.
 
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but to offer a reality check:

You say that you don't want to be put in a dangerous situation, but you have already crossed that threshold (multiple times, from the sound of it). You've suffered a serious fall, and the horse has got away from you both in hand and on long lines. For your safety, his safety, and everyone else's, you need to avoid putting him in situations that trigger this behaviour. If he has to stay in his field until you can get some help/answers, so be it.

From your post, it sounds like this behaviour is both escalating and encroaching on new, previously safe territory. Two possibilities spring to mind:

1. He's in pain and it's worsening. The pain causes a reaction which causes more pain, or he's afraid of being in pain which makes him more likely to panic, and the panicking causes pain. Vet/x-rays/dentist/saddle fitter are all options.

2. He has a traumatic association with noisy vehicles and through repeated negative exposure, his trust has been eroded to such an extent that he no longer has confidence in every day activities. To be clear, even getting to a state where he runs backwards will have reinforced his panic response. A qualified equine behaviorist will be able to help you assess how best to regain his confidence.

It could also be both, or something else entirely.

I understand the impulse to be stoic in order to keep going with a tricky horse but my advice is to put safety first and take big steps back from triggering him. There's a problem with his foundations - either physical or emotional - and until it's resolved, he won't be able to cope.
 
Landcruiser said:
I presume he's had all the standard checks - teeth, back, maybe scoped for ulcers, tack fit? Does he behave the same with other people? Can you access his history to check whether he's had a trauma or accident of some kind involving trailers etc. What are you feeding him, what's his turnout situation? More details and background would help.
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Yes he’s had all the above checked as I’m very hot on this. He’s on his balancer (which I did try taking him off and made no difference to him), Speedi beet, lite chaff, some high fibre cubes in his play ball. He’s turned out 24/7 in his herd which he loves. He’s an ex racer and I’ve had ex racers all my life (straight off of track) and have been in the industry, I’ve had some with behaviour issues and have overcome them/worked with them but he’s the first that I’ve not found the answer to (as of yet). As far as I’m aware there’s been no history of an accident but I can only go on what I’ve been told by trainers and breeders etc!
 
CatInTheSaddle said:
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but to offer a reality check:

You say that you don't want to be put in a dangerous situation, but you have already crossed that threshold (multiple times, from the sound of it). You've suffered a serious fall, and the horse has got away from you both in hand and on long lines. For your safety, his safety, and everyone else's, you need to avoid putting him in situations that trigger this behaviour. If he has to stay in his field until you can get some help/answers, so be it.

From your post, it sounds like this behaviour is both escalating and encroaching on new, previously safe territory. Two possibilities spring to mind:

1. He's in pain and it's worsening. The pain causes a reaction which causes more pain, or he's afraid of being in pain which makes him more likely to panic, and the panicking causes pain. Vet/x-rays/dentist/saddle fitter are all options.

2. He has a traumatic association with noisy vehicles and through repeated negative exposure, his trust has been eroded to such an extent that he no longer has confidence in every day activities. To be clear, even getting to a state where he runs backwards will have reinforced his panic response. A qualified equine behaviorist will be able to help you assess how best to regain his confidence.

It could also be both, or something else entirely.

I understand the impulse to be stoic in order to keep going with a tricky horse but my advice is to put safety first and take big steps back from triggering him. There's a problem with his foundations - either physical or emotional - and until it's resolved, he won't be able to cope.
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Im not attempting to put anyone, him or myself in any situations as I wouldn’t as that would be selfish. When I wrote this post, I was explaining the situations that have led up to this point, the injury I suffered was only on the second time he had ever done this behaviour and since then I’ve taken more to the groundwork he’s currently out grazing in his herd on a break at the moment, until I decide on my next steps regarding this situation.

I’ve spent 4 figures on him to make sure that all avenues eg. X-rays, teeth, saddle, sheath clean, scopes etc etc to make sure he is “physically sound”. I do agree with the mental aspect which is an avenue I’m going down as unless something has been missed there’s not much more I can do on the physical aspect of things.

The reason I want to solve this is for his sake not for my own, although it would benefit me in the relief of knowing there is a solution.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
does it make a difference if its comes behind or towards him?

is it a new thing or something that he's always done but has got worse recently?

defo very scary, I'd also avoid hacking until you know what is causing it!
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I thought it did but no, as I faced him towards
Fizzythoroughbred said:
Im not attempting to put anyone, him or myself in any situations as I wouldn’t as that would be selfish. When I wrote this post, I was explaining the situations that have led up to this point, the injury I suffered was only on the second time he had ever done this behaviour and since then I’ve taken more to the groundwork he’s currently out grazing in his herd on a break at the moment, until I decide on my next steps regarding this situation.

I’ve spent 4 figures on him to make sure that all avenues eg. X-rays, teeth, saddle, sheath clean, scopes etc etc to make sure he is “physically sound”. I do agree with the mental aspect which is an avenue I’m going down as unless something has been missed there’s not much more I can do on the physical aspect of things.

The reason I want to solve this is for his sake not for my own, although it would benefit me in the relief of knowing there is a solution.
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I will correct myself it was the third time he had done it (out hacking), he’s been doing it under groundwork, I may have worded it wrong on my original post
 
kerrieberry2 said:
does it make a difference if its comes behind or towards him?

is it a new thing or something that he's always done but has got worse recently?

defo very scary, I'd also avoid hacking until you know what is causing it!
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Sorry it cut my message off, I did try and turn him towards it, doesn’t make an ounce of difference, I thought it did at first but it was a fluke I feel!

This is something he did after a few months of having him! I can only go on what I’m told about his history from his trainers/breeders which haven’t expressed much about him!

Most definitely just groundwork currently the starting in the school before hacking! X
 
Marigold4 said:
My horse did the running backwards at speed a few months ago. It was very scary as I couldn't think of what to do to stop him. It has really knocked my confidence in hacking him on his own. Just thankful that we didn't end up in a ditch or a fence. It seemed v dangerous as his brain was definitely NOT engaged.
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Most definitely it’s like their brain falls out of their ear!
 
Fizzythoroughbred said:
Im not attempting to put anyone, him or myself in any situations as I wouldn’t as that would be selfish. When I wrote this post, I was explaining the situations that have led up to this point, the injury I suffered was only on the second time he had ever done this behaviour and since then I’ve taken more to the groundwork he’s currently out grazing in his herd on a break at the moment, until I decide on my next steps regarding this situation.

I’ve spent 4 figures on him to make sure that all avenues eg. X-rays, teeth, saddle, sheath clean, scopes etc etc to make sure he is “physically sound”. I do agree with the mental aspect which is an avenue I’m going down as unless something has been missed there’s not much more I can do on the physical aspect of things.

The reason I want to solve this is for his sake not for my own, although it would benefit me in the relief of knowing there is a solution.
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I apologise if my post was poorly worded. Assumption that all basic avenues have been explored should be the norm, but without knowing you or the horse many of us will start there based on previous, depressing experience. Likewise with safety precautions: generic advice is formed through bitter experience of people persevering when they shouldn't be!

With this additional info, I would wholeheartedly recommend a behaviorist to assess and give you advice. If a phobia of his has been triggered, he may be bringing that anxiety with him into the rest of his day to day life. Like a person who's experienced panic attacks associated with trauma, his nervous system will be operating on a more heightened level.

I would also cautiously suggest a good physio to assess the state of his fascia, musculoskeletal tension, and overall balance. The brain-body-balance relationship is so entwined that it can be impossible to positively influence one aspect if another is too far out of alignment. But there are physios and there are physios... It can be hard to find one who really knows their stuff. I would expect an instinctive response to run backward (rather than whip round and run) to be evidenced somewhere in his body, though horses live to educate us all!
 
CatInTheSaddle said:
I apologise if my post was poorly worded. Assumption that all basic avenues have been explored should be the norm, but without knowing you or the horse many of us will start there based on previous, depressing experience. Likewise with safety precautions: generic advice is formed through bitter experience of people persevering when they shouldn't be!

With this additional info, I would wholeheartedly recommend a behaviorist to assess and give you advice. If a phobia of his has been triggered, he may be bringing that anxiety with him into the rest of his day to day life. Like a person who's experienced panic attacks associated with trauma, his nervous system will be operating on a more heightened level.

I would also cautiously suggest a good physio to assess the state of his fascia, musculoskeletal tension, and overall balance. The brain-body-balance relationship is so entwined that it can be impossible to positively influence one aspect if another is too far out of alignment. But there are physios and there are physios... It can be hard to find one who really knows their stuff. I would expect an instinctive response to run backward (rather than whip round and run) to be evidenced somewhere in his body, though horses live to educate us all!
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I most definitely agree with you. On top of the off the track ottbs I’ve had, I’ve had a few rescues, they definitely teach us allot especially with the heartbreak! I appreciate your comments, I’m just not that good at writing/messages so the come off a bit all over the place 😆

Fingers crossed I can get to the bottom of this especially as if he is in pain or even mental distress is just as bad which I can sympathise with, with my own personal mental health/mental disability I live with!

I’m also trying to find a reputable behaviourist but struggling to find one in my area!
 
It took me months to get to the bottom of things when one of mine starting running backwards and flinging himself into ditches etc. Seemed to be no obvious trigger but I suspected pain. Various vets couldn’t find anything at first but we now know he has PSD. I’m not saying your horse has pain, just that it can be so difficult to rule out. I hope you get to the bottom of things. I know how frustrating it can be
 
Not sure if Ive quite followed, but if he is doing it in-hand in the arena, could you get a friens to film him so you can watch it back later? (Ideally another person who understands horses and keeps him clearly in frame and will keep filming when it goes wrong)

You might be able to see something on a video that you are missing when working with him as you are too close - for example growing tension round the eye/face before he runs backwards or a head toss/mis-step/particular bend just before.

Which may help with working out a trigger or help you see what's happening when not in the middle of it.

Just on pain, further to all the checks have you considered a 2 week bute trial to see if that makes a difference incase there is something you've missed?
I had a horse that didn't fail a flexion test till he'd been on bute for a week - problem was hock arthritis - but untill then nothing pointed to the hocks just a general "not quite right" but impossible to pinpoint. Vets theory is that the pain relief meant he relaxed/stopped compensating so much which meant that we could see where the problem was.
 
I've nothing to add other than wondering how long you took him off the balancer for. It would take a while to get out of his system.

It's an intriguing problem. I wonder what Tristan Tucker would think of it.
 
A basic question but is he the same with another horse, if you have a safe steady type to take him out with (leading inhand, at least your horse if not both)? This might help you to distinguish between whether it is a pain response or fear. My feeling is that it is the latter, if it's triggered by types of vehicle rather than happening seemingly randomly.
 
It's not possible to completely rule out pain. I have an example I quote on here that went on to have two significant issues after several vet investigations and being told it was behavioural and to send the horse away to be ridden through it.

After getting those two issues dealt with the horse made some, but limited progress. They have, over a year later, had to have surgery on I think two vertebra that needed the central channel opening over 1cm because of nerve constriction.
 
Horses might back a step or two when unsure, but running backwards for distance isn’t a natural ‘flight’ response. In the wild or the field they would never do this.

Under saddle, backing often shows up when the horse feels forward is blocked or too difficult, or when forward is being asked for while the horse wants to stop and assess. If backing leads to a reduction in pressure (even briefly), it can quickly become a learned evasion through pressure-release.

The fact it started in traffic (high arousal) but is now happening in groundwork suggests it likely began as a fear response and has generalised into a default coping strategy, especially since he’s managed to get away a few times which is hugely reinforcing.

Confidence-building exposure only works if you stay in the sweet spot: some anxiety that the horse is able to habituate to while staying in the situation - which is what widens the tolerane window - but not overwhelmed. If the horse repeatedly goes over threshold, this just increases fear rather than building confidence, and you also train the escape response.

Given the escalation and the safety risk, I’d echo the advice to pause any situations where he can break loose and get a good professional in to rebuild from the ground up. This is skilled, moment-by-moment work and it’s absolutely worth getting the right eyes on it.
 
Can you find any grazing next to a road where traffic is passing all day? Even if you have to move him away to do so.
Don't get yourself injured.
 
Wait…

So he ONLY does this with vehicles? Not at any other time? Traffic shy rather than showing concerning behaviour at all times?

Did he react with fear towards ‘big’ traffic always, as in from the time you got him, even if he wasn’t running backwards and rearing at that point? Or was there an incident that scared him?

If he is just traffic shy (I say ‘just’ but it’s a big thing) then you’re looking at something completely different from random escalating spookiness.
 
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