Running into canter

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Tonto_

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I'm having problems with my loan horse running into canter, he runs in the trot, so I rebalance him, and repeat and repeat until we finally get the transition then he runs in the canter and skids round the corners so I'm only trying to canter him down the long side and bring him back to trot and rebalance him if he runs, is this correct?
He's physically too unbalanced to be able to canter on a circle

He was really unbalanced and unfit when I first started riding him, he couldn't bend and went everywhere in a straight line and took corners like a motorbike!
 
What's he like out hacking, can you find a gentle slope and not worry too much about the transition but get your seat out the saddle and let him bowl along and find his own balance. Once that improves you can look at the transitions, sounds like the trot needs work too. Best to get some lessons from a decent instructor, it hard to advise when you don't see the horse in the flesh.
 
I think improving the trot will also help with cantering. If you can try asking for more activity in the trot while maintaining balance that will help him gain strength for the canter.

By coming back to trot in the corners he's also doing frequent transitions which should help him.
 
Well firstly, having both had a horse out on loan AND also been someone who's been given a horse on loan, I would have a word with the owners before you go any further as this might be something they've experienced with the horse and they could advise you!

Secondly, I'd get the horse checked-over for any pain issues (inc teeth) and phsyio'd if necessary, as well as saddle-check (you should consult the owner before doing this: important!) as the difficulty you are having might indicate discomfort or even pain somewhere.

You do not mention your own riding ability?? When you "ask" for canter, what are you doing?? Sometimes what happens - especially, if you'll pardon me for saying so - with novices; is that the rider lets the horse "run out the front door" where the horse is unbalanced and all that happens is the horse just trots faster and faster, completely on the forehand, without cantering, and the rider wonders why it doesn't canter!! In order to achieve canter, the rider will need to get the horse back in the bridle and in a place where it is collected and balanced, going from behind, and then ask for canter!

I would go with what others have said and suggest you get a professional/riding instructor to work with you on this one. As the horse sounds very unfit, it would be unfair, currently, to work it in a "school" environment IMO so I would suggest a way forward would be to get your instructor to come out onto a hack with you; you'd benefit from being somewhere where (obviously!) you could have a good canter, so you may, depending on whereabouts you are, have to box-up and go somewhere, but I think you would find this more valuable than being in the school. You need to be in enough space for you to be able to canter going forward in a straight line. If I was your instructor I would be encouraging you to get the horse back in the bridle and nicely balanced before you attempted canter.

The other thing which might help would be to have a lesson on a "schoolmaster", not your own horse, and get the "feel" of what you need to achieve on a horse that knows what they're doing and can physically deal with cantering on a circle in an arena. You might also benefit from a few lessons on the lunge.

Also: I would respectfully suggest that you might need to work on your own rider fitness. If the horse DOES need physio, then so do you, and you also need to work on your core stability and fitness to ride. Have a look here: www.fittoride.org.uk
 
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MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Well firstly, having both had a horse out on loan AND also been someone who's been given a horse on loan, I would have a word with the owners before you go any further as this might be something they've experienced with the horse and they could advise you!

Secondly, I'd get the horse checked-over for any pain issues (inc teeth) and phsyio'd if necessary, as well as saddle-check (you should consult the owner before doing this: important!) as the difficulty you are having might indicate discomfort or even pain somewhere.

You do not mention your own riding ability?? When you "ask" for canter, what are you doing?? Sometimes what happens - especially, if you'll pardon me for saying so - with novices; is that the rider lets the horse "run out the front door" where the horse is unbalanced and all that happens is the horse just trots faster and faster, completely on the forehand, without cantering, and the rider wonders why it doesn't canter!! In order to achieve canter, the rider will need to get the horse back in the bridle and in a place where it is collected and balanced, going from behind, and then ask for canter!

I would go with what others have said and suggest you get a professional/riding instructor to work with you on this one. As the horse sounds very unfit, it would be unfair, currently, to work it in a "school" environment IMO so I would suggest a way forward would be to get your instructor to come out onto a hack with you; you'd benefit from being somewhere where (obviously!) you could have a good canter, so you may, depending on whereabouts you are, have to box-up and go somewhere, but I think you would find this more valuable than being in the school. You need to be in enough space for you to be able to canter going forward in a straight line. If I was your instructor I would be encouraging you to get the horse back in the bridle and nicely balanced before you attempted canter.

The other thing which might help would be to have a lesson on a "schoolmaster", not your own horse, and get the "feel" of what you need to achieve on a horse that knows what they're doing and can physically deal with cantering on a circle in an arena. You might also benefit from a few lessons on the lunge.

Also: I would respectfully suggest that you might need to work on your own rider fitness. If the horse DOES need physio, then so do you, and you also need to work on your core stability and fitness to ride. Have a look here: www.fittoride.org.uk
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The owners have a do what you want attitude, I've spoken to them and they don't see an issue with him doing it and has been doing since they got him 4 years ago, he's also never been asked to work and use himself properly.

You can't hack him out, at all, if you even get him out the gate he then bucks, rears, bolts, spins, you name it, he does it. Alone or in company, even if someone is leading him.

I've spent 8 months getting him fit and working balanced and forward in walk and trot before I even attempted to canter him because I knew it would end up with him taking the corners like a motorbike/running. He will also now bend and can do a little lateral work.

ETA he was just broken in when they got him and he just kinda plodded around for 4 years so everything like working properly over his back and bending is completely new to him
 
silv said:
What's he like out hacking, can you find a gentle slope and not worry too much about the transition but get your seat out the saddle and let him bowl along and find his own balance. Once that improves you can look at the transitions, sounds like the trot needs work too. Best to get some lessons from a decent instructor, it hard to advise when you don't see the horse in the flesh.
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You can't hack him out but I am working on getting a new instructor, I'm obviously fussy as I can't find anyone I like!
 
Tonto_ said:
The owners have a do what you want attitude, I've spoken to them and they don't see an issue with him doing it and has been doing since they got him 4 years ago, he's also never been asked to work and use himself properly.

You can't hack him out, at all, if you even get him out the gate he then bucks, rears, bolts, spins, you name it, he does it. Alone or in company, even if someone is leading him.

I've spent 8 months getting him fit and working balanced and forward in walk and trot before I even attempted to canter him because I knew it would end up with him taking the corners like a motorbike/running. He will also now bend and can do a little lateral work.

ETA he was just broken in when they got him and he just kinda plodded around for 4 years so everything like working properly over his back and bending is completely new to him
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Ahhh, right......... sooohhh, if I've got the gist of things right, presuming this horse was backed at 4yo, he's now a VERY green 8yo, right??? He's done nothing, has been allowed to get away with a lot, can't be ridden on a hack, neither has he done anything in the school!

So basically what you're dealing with is a very green horse that's frankly what you'd expect of a just-backed 4yo who's been broken and then turned away - and done nothing! By comparison, without in any way wishing to brag coz I know all horses are not the same, my little youngster at 4yo-and-just-backed when she came to me, was able to be ridden out solo and happy to go past a working quarry.

Forgive my cynicism, but it feels very much like the owners have basically washed their hands of him and handed him over to you to sort out!! What you've got, essentially, is a very green 8yo??? Yes?? Who if he HAS learnt anything, has very likely learnt all the wrong things! I'm afraid this won't be an easy fix: if I was in your situation I'd go right back to basics and start again with groundwork, and then re-back him, then work on the basics by lunging him in a school, then progress to ridden work with the eventual aim of getting him out hacking with a steady companion when he's ready. This is a huge winter project you've got on your hands! I don't think its a simple case of "fixing" the canter!!! And unless you have experience of dealing with young horses and/or remedial work, I'm sorry to have to P!ss on your parade, but I would sincerely counsel you (for your own safety alone) to not even attempt the job, and certainly not without professional help; and at the end of the day you'll be putting time (and possibly money) into a horse that isn't your own and you might have to hand back at the end of the day.

The problem you are likely to encounter (not saying you will, but it DOES unfortunately happen) is the risk that if you do put the work in over the winter say, and he's nicely "produced" by the Spring, then hey presto the owners will be interested in him again and they'll fall in love with him and want him back again!!, so whilst what I'm saying probably won't be what you want to hear, I personally would be inclined to just stop and take a breath, for now, and consider what your future goals and aspirations are with this whole situation.

You are going to have to put in a LOT of time and effort; and possibly put yourself at risk as well (I do not know your riding ability or your experience with youngsters and/or remedial work), and at the end of the day, he isn't your horse, he belongs to someone else, who seems to be taking little interest in his progress - yet if this horse DOES come good through your good efforts, they just might want him back again! It happens. And if it does, you would be heartbroken, yet would be powerless to do anything about it.

Please forgive me if my bluntness offends, that is not my intention one jot. I am just seeing a situation where you could end up spending a lot of time and trouble over someone else's problem, when frankly you could find yourself a nice little loan horse which would suit you far better and where you could actually do the stuff you want to do and ENJOY!! Now's the time of year when you might pick up a half-decent loan horse, with teenagers going off to uni, trekking centres wishing to re-home for the winter etc etc. Why land yourself with someone else's problem??

Unless of course you DO have the experience AND the time to re-start him, and you're confident that you CAN sort him and produce him to what you want by say the Spring! If this is the case, if you like the horse and can't imagine life without him, then I'd be inclined to offer the owners dead-weight price for him and take a punt!! Then at least he'd be yours and you'd know what's what.

Of course, I might have completely got hold of the wrong end of the stick with this whole scenario! IF I have offended by my honesty, or IF I have cast doubt on your riding ability OP, then please accept my profound apologies........ silly old fools like me quite often read something on here and get it all wrong!! X
 
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I would say take everything back a step do lots and lots of transitions from walk to trot up and down. you cant expect a horse to be balanced in canter if they aren't balanced in trot so lots of different changes of rein and circles ect. It takes a really long time but is so worth it in the end.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Ahhh, right......... sooohhh, if I've got the gist of things right, presuming this horse was backed at 4yo, he's now a VERY green 8yo, right??? He's done nothing, has been allowed to get away with a lot, can't be ridden on a hack, neither has he done anything in the school!

So basically what you're dealing with is a very green horse that's frankly what you'd expect of a just-backed 4yo who's been broken and then turned away - and done nothing! By comparison, without in any way wishing to brag coz I know all horses are not the same, my little youngster at 4yo-and-just-backed when she came to me, was able to be ridden out solo and happy to go past a working quarry.

Forgive my cynicism, but it feels very much like the owners have basically washed their hands of him and handed him over to you to sort out!! What you've got, essentially, is a very green 8yo??? Yes?? Who if he HAS learnt anything, has very likely learnt all the wrong things! I'm afraid this won't be an easy fix: if I was in your situation I'd go right back to basics and start again with groundwork, and then re-back him, then work on the basics by lunging him in a school, then progress to ridden work with the eventual aim of getting him out hacking with a steady companion when he's ready. This is a huge winter project you've got on your hands! I don't think its a simple case of "fixing" the canter!!! And unless you have experience of dealing with young horses and/or remedial work, I'm sorry to have to P!ss on your parade, but I would sincerely counsel you (for your own safety alone) to not even attempt the job, and certainly not without professional help; and at the end of the day you'll be putting time (and possibly money) into a horse that isn't your own and you might have to hand back at the end of the day.

The problem you are likely to encounter (not saying you will, but it DOES unfortunately happen) is the risk that if you do put the work in over the winter say, and he's nicely "produced" by the Spring, then hey presto the owners will be interested in him again and they'll fall in love with him and want him back again!!, so whilst what I'm saying probably won't be what you want to hear, I personally would be inclined to just stop and take a breath, for now, and consider what your future goals and aspirations are with this whole situation.

You are going to have to put in a LOT of time and effort; and possibly put yourself at risk as well (I do not know your riding ability or your experience with youngsters and/or remedial work), and at the end of the day, he isn't your horse, he belongs to someone else, who seems to be taking little interest in his progress - yet if this horse DOES come good through your good efforts, they just might want him back again! It happens. And if it does, you would be heartbroken, yet would be powerless to do anything about it.

Please forgive me if my bluntness offends, that is not my intention one jot. I am just seeing a situation where you could end up spending a lot of time and trouble over someone else's problem, when frankly you could find yourself a nice little loan horse which would suit you far better and where you could actually do the stuff you want to do and ENJOY!! Now's the time of year when you might pick up a half-decent loan horse, with teenagers going off to uni, trekking centres wishing to re-home for the winter etc etc. Why land yourself with someone else's problem??

Unless of course you DO have the experience AND the time to re-start him, and you're confident that you CAN sort him and produce him to what you want by say the Spring! If this is the case, if you like the horse and can't imagine life without him, then I'd be inclined to offer the owners dead-weight price for him and take a punt!! Then at least he'd be yours and you'd know what's what.

Of course, I might have completely got hold of the wrong end of the stick with this whole scenario! IF I have offended by my honesty, or IF I have cast doubt on your riding ability OP, then please accept my profound apologies........ silly old fools like me quite often read something on here and get it all wrong!! X
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He was backed and brought as a 3 year old so have a very green 7 year old, but in the school he is very sensible and sane, I don't have to worry about my safety.

His owner has gone to uni, he got me to take him on earlier in the year so he knew he was settled with me before he left for uni. He's never planning on selling any of his horses (he has 2 companion horses that his parents are looking after)

I've now been riding him for 8 months and his walk and trot work has improved so much, he can bend properly, and balance himself now in walk and trot which is why I'm now starting to introduce the canter.

Its the first time I've had the chance to produce a horse and I'm finding it is making me a much better rider and I'm really enjoying it, to the point where if I had the money I'd look at buying a project horse
 
Tonto_ said:
He was backed and brought as a 3 year old so have a very green 7 year old, but in the school he is very sensible and sane, I don't have to worry about my safety.

His owner has gone to uni, he got me to take him on earlier in the year so he knew he was settled with me before he left for uni. He's never planning on selling any of his horses (he has 2 companion horses that his parents are looking after)

I've now been riding him for 8 months and his walk and trot work has improved so much, he can bend properly, and balance himself now in walk and trot which is why I'm now starting to introduce the canter.

Its the first time I've had the chance to produce a horse and I'm finding it is making me a much better rider and I'm really enjoying it, to the point where if I had the money I'd look at buying a project horse
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If the walk and trot is coming along nicely and you are wanting to start improving the canter you could try doing walk to canter transition so that he doesn't have a chance to run on.?
 
One of the best exercises I used to get my (then) young guy to push into the canter transition:

Trot on a 20m circle. LY in until you're on about a 12m circle, then LY out quite sharply. When you are nearly all the way out (but not quite), sit down and canter. The LY makes it hard for them to run, and it really gets them pushing off the inside hind.
 
Tonto_ said:
He was backed and brought as a 3 year old so have a very green 7 year old, but in the school he is very sensible and sane, I don't have to worry about my safety.

His owner has gone to uni, he got me to take him on earlier in the year so he knew he was settled with me before he left for uni. He's never planning on selling any of his horses (he has 2 companion horses that his parents are looking after)

I've now been riding him for 8 months and his walk and trot work has improved so much, he can bend properly, and balance himself now in walk and trot which is why I'm now starting to introduce the canter.

Its the first time I've had the chance to produce a horse and I'm finding it is making me a much better rider and I'm really enjoying it, to the point where if I had the money I'd look at buying a project horse
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Ahh right........ well good luck anyway! Hope some of the suggestions on here are helpful.
 
Curly_Feather said:
One of the best exercises I used to get my (then) young guy to push into the canter transition:

Trot on a 20m circle. LY in until you're on about a 12m circle, then LY out quite sharply. When you are nearly all the way out (but not quite), sit down and canter. The LY makes it hard for them to run, and it really gets them pushing off the inside hind.
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Ooh! Ill have to try that one! We've done a lot of leg yielding on circles
 
A good instructor, find one! They can make all the difference, sounds like he doesn’t know how to bend and balance with a rider on board. My horse was like this as he was purely a driving horse, couldn’t canter for the life of him! (Though did in the field!) Ran in trot and would run and run until he broke into canter, it will take quite a while but you will get there but really recommend someone on the ground helping you with lots schooling exercises to practise, also I used to take him out (if you can) to venues like farm rides pleasure rides so straight line cantering, good fun and you relax more in the saddle hence freeing him up to canter if that makes sense..good luck, it will happen!
 
My cure for this sort of thing (which generally indicates they are on the forehand so circles, bends and half halts) is to ask for canter from walk. You do need good deep seat and strong aids but it does make them use their hind end. Then, once the canter begins to get unbalanced again, back to walk for several strides. And repeat etc - so they only learn a decent balanced canter where they are pushing with the hind legs rather than pulling with the fronts.
 
Nice balanced trot along the side of the school, slow the trot as you approach the corner, sitting trot, ask for canter as you come out of the corner. If it helps put something in the corner to ride around -barrel/tyre etc should help you both to place the horse correctly for the bend and get his hocks underneath.
 
I taught mine on the lunge from a voice command - walk to canter.

I then did it on her best rein in the school - again walk to canter. Just a few strides but a huge amount of praise.
 
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