Running low on options

[Milo123]

My horse has been lame on and off for 8-9 weeks. We are under veterinary treatment and have had 2 lots of X-rays, he is currently on antibiotics ( as a precaution)

- horse went lame 3-5 days after farrier shod horse
- initially took shoes off and poulticed for 3 days
-farrier found a small cavity possibly caused by a stone that had got between his shoe and sole
-slight improvement with him so shoes put back back, went lame straight away ( horse has terrible feet so going barefoot for any length of time causes him more harm than good) he is 24
-vet called felt it could be bruised sole 7 days of bute- slight improvement but not much (2xdaily)
- vet called X-rays taken nothing obvious on X-rays- bilateral imbalance noted, vet suggest box rest for a week, navicular bursa never block went from 4/10 to 3/10 lame
-no improvement
-used a diffrent vet due to various factors who again wished to xray agreed vet found a flight dark spot on the short pattern bone/ ddft barley visible took a lot of shots to get this vet felt it could possibly be an infection ( hence antibiotics he is currently on day 7 of 10 day course) vet would recommend that we have mri if no improvement one week after antibiotics finish
- we have poulticed for 7days and he is now having his foot wrapped as like previously said his feet are very poor so wrapping to keep clean ect due to the cavity causing damage to hoof wall I have attached pictures.
- got my hopes up tonight as he is so so much better in walk o decided what would a small trot harm he again was lame in trot sound again in walk he is better on softer ground than hard concrete

Our problem lies with the fact he dosnt load / travel well and our nearest mri machine is nearly a 2 hour drive (1.5 if traffic is good but have to use m5)
he is happy in himself eating well ( is bored out of his brains) but coping extremely well prior to this he is fit well and in regular work very happy and healthy never sick and sorry.

Nothing has come out on poultice

I can’t post photo of the cavity ??

 

[Melody Grey]

That sounds tough, I can see why you’re frustrated and wondering what to do. With the cost, I’m not sure I would MRI a 24 year old, I hope that doesn’t sound harsh but it’s a very expensive procedure. I’ve had MRI with some horses before, but only because my insurance has paid the majority of it.

What does your vet envisage might come out of it and how might your approach to treating differ?

 

[Melody Grey]

Is shoes off and turn away (possibly on bute as an interim measure) an absolute no?

ETA: sorry, just re-read re: cavity….thats a challenge then!

 

[Milo123]

That sounds tough, I can see why you’re frustrated and wondering what to do. With the cost, I’m not sure I would MRI a 24 year old, I hope that doesn’t sound harsh but it’s a very expensive procedure. I’ve had MRI with some horses before, but only because my insurance has paid the majority of it.

What does your vet envisage might come out of it and how might your approach to treating differ?

We are quite lucky that budget wise we have about 10k ( not insurance) due to the fact he’s been with us nearly 20 years we feel like we owe him exhausting all avenues we wouldn’t see him suffer ( if a diagnosis was given)

I think it would be more for the diagnostic element as currently we do not have a set diagnosis so don’t have a solid treatment plan/ care plan lined up.

I feel that possibly if we have a diagnosis we will know we have done everything if he has to retire he will be with us till the very end anyway but I think it’s more not knowing and the fact that he has been trying to put his bridle on himself ( our tack is in stables)

 

[Milo123]

Is shoes off and turn away (possibly on bute as an interim measure) an absolute no?

ETA: sorry, just re-read re: cavity….thats a challenge then!

We don’t have a great deal of grazing however I was going to “beg” the local (crazy) horse lady if I could rent a field for 2 months and just do that tbh I think we could both do with it as I’m starting to loose my mind!

 

[ester]

The forum is really fussy about the size of photos, it's usually best to use a 3rd party location and add links. Or you can make them appear by using image tags

general random late night thoughts. . .
Cavity is in white line? but presumably not tracking up if nothing on xray? Given generally shit feet do you think likely that that could just be the cause of the problem or that there is something more.
Also re. shit feet- cushings tested? - I would want to be sure of that before chucking him on grass option.
Poss angle but pastern looks swollen in that pic?
If bruising it can take quite a time to come right again - and as his feet are suboptimal that makes deeper bruising more likely+ having them wrapped will have poss made them softer too.
In which direction were they unbalanced? and both fronts?

The good news is he is better in walk so that's a start! For his comfort I'd probably chuck a (or a pair of) cavallos on him with some decent EPS thick pads.

I think it's really personal decision at this point whether you want to get him to MRI (sedate to travel?) or wait it out a bit longer. I think if me that would depend on how comfortable I could get him as he is now if bute not making that much difference.
But if you need to use the M5 the next couple of weeks might not be ideal!

 

[Milo123]

The forum is really fussy about the size of photos, it's usually best to use a 3rd party location and add links. Or you can make them appear by using image tags

general random late night thoughts. . .
Cavity is in white line? but presumably not tracking up if nothing on xray? Given generally shit feet do you think likely that that could just be the cause of the problem or that there is something more.
Also re. shit feet- cushings tested? - I would want to be sure of that before chucking him on grass option.
Poss angle but pastern looks swollen in that pic?
If bruising it can take quite a time to come right again - and as his feet are suboptimal that makes deeper bruising more likely+ having them wrapped will have poss made them softer too.
In which direction were they unbalanced? and both fronts?

The good news is he is better in walk so that's a start! For his comfort I'd probably chuck a (or a pair of) cavallos on him with some decent EPS thick pads.

I think it's really personal decision at this point whether you want to get him to MRI (sedate to travel?) or wait it out a bit longer. I think if me that would depend on how comfortable I could get him as he is now if bute not making that much difference.
But if you need to use the M5 the next couple of weeks might not be ideal!

We haven’t cushions tested may get vet up next week to run it (can’t harm) I have tried to do what you’ve said with attachment but no idea how to do it, going to look if I could maybe do a google photo drop box and post the link ?

I think it may be the angle and the fact he had the front shaved off for the nerve block? You can literally squeez all of his foot ect and he has no problem ( he is a sensitive soul and would let me know if it was hurting him) usually if he looses a shoe he comes up lame so I’m thinking am I best to try the shoe back on, the farrier has been great though out process and has been calling in when ever passing to check vet and farrier both seem stumped on what it could be (the two vets and 3 vet students final years) I could potentially sedate him to travel but my worry is him coming out of it as it’s 2 hours yes my husband said good luck with the m5 he travels for business so I think we’d need to wait until it was clear

 

[Milo123]

B

 

[ester]

the forum used to let you type out the image tags so I could show you but I see now its just put a broken link in which is helpful

For me I wouldn't be too hasty to put the shoe back on for fear of hammering= causing more trauma to situ but that's me and if farrier were to use pads etc for comfort you're then limiting access to the hoof that you probably still want to keep an eye on. He might have a better idea though, its good he's been supportive.

 

[Milo123]

the forum used to let you type out the image tags so I could show you but I see now its just put a broken link in which is helpful

For me I wouldn't be too hasty to put the shoe back on for fear of hammering= causing more trauma to situ but that's me and if farrier were to use pads etc for comfort you're then limiting access to the hoof that you probably still want to keep an eye on. He might have a better idea though, its good he's been supportive.

I’m not sure how I can get them on here wonder if I private messaged, I know it’s a dilemma as I don’t think he will ever trot up sound without shoes ( he is useless without them- if out in grass he is okay without them but if he as to walk on a stone/leaf/stick you get the gist)

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t rule out cushings with potentially mild laminitis given the age and lameness pattern

 

[Equi]

Are you trying to load from a phone? If so select the photo, hit options and then medium and it should load.

 

[soloequestrian]

Years ago I put an older horse through an operation for septic pedal ostitis. She had been very healthy her whole life so it seemed like a good thing to do. I would never do it again - she got laminitis as a result of either the anaesthetic or the stress of being in horsepital and she was never really the same again. Given the same choice now I would have put her to sleep and avoided the suffering.

 

[Milo123]

I wouldn’t rule out cushings with potentially mild laminitis given the age and lameness pattern

Definitely going to get cushings test done, there is no lamanitic changes on either x rays and no pulse

 

[Milo123]

His foot had just been soaked for 20 mins

 

[Milo123]

Years ago I put an older horse through an operation for septic pedal ostitis. She had been very healthy her whole life so it seemed like a good thing to do. I would never do it again - she got laminitis as a result of either the anaesthetic or the stress of being in horsepital and she was never really the same again. Given the same choice now I would have put her to sleep and avoided the suffering.

If we had a solid diagnosis I’d never let him suffer but currently we don’t so could be putting him down for no reason?

 

[TheBigPony]

Mine had a seroma, fluid build up, didn't show up on xray. She initially didn't react to testers, it took sometime to work out what the problem was. Could it be something like that

 

[Milo123]

Mine had a seroma, fluid build up, didn't show up on xray. She initially didn't react to testers, it took sometime to work out what the problem was. Could it be something like that

I will have a look into this tomorrow!

 

[pistolpete]

It much to add except to say I feel for you. Undiagnosed lameness is so frustrating. Often it is a low grade lami when nothing else shows so I’d be cutting back grazing as a precaution. Sorry. Not much help.

 

[Pinkvboots]

It could be a pedal bone infection my mare had this and it didn't really show up on an xray it was so faint but I had one of the best vets at Rossdales look and he picked it up.

It could also be a gas build up in the cavity Michen on here went through it with her Bog, have a search on here about it.

I will say that hoof looks very upright so it could be long term low grade laminitis that sometimes presents like that, or it can also be heal pain in the navicular area either soft tissue or bone changes.

 

[Abacus]

I have no suggestions to offer re: diagnosis. Personally I would if possible turn out and wait, rather than do expensive diagnostics. As you are self funding, you aren’t on the clock of the insurance company. If he’s bored and wanting to do something and is sound in walk would you consider gentle walk hacks when the shoe goes back on? Not for the sake of riding but for his sake. I’d do this with my beloved 27 year old, who gets so bored and so cross if not kept busy.

 

[Goldenstar]

At his age I think the fact he is a bad traveller would stop me sending him for fancy diagnostics .
I would do a Cushings test.
And then concentrate on quality of life his and yours .
Cavallos and a thick pad are a good call .

 

[Backtoblack]

I'd have shoes removed and turn him out for several months minimum six months up to a year.

 

[Sandstone1]

would it be worth trying hoof boots?

 

[Sarys]

We don’t have a great deal of grazing however I was going to “beg” the local (crazy) horse lady if I could rent a field for 2 months and just do that tbh I think we could both do with it as I’m starting to loose my mind!

I’m no expert but I think that’s what I would do considering age.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would get him tested for Cushings. Ask vet for TRH-Stim test, rather than ACTH, it's more accurate. My mare had an infection in her hoof which cleared up as soon as she was given Prascend.

 

[paddi22]

I'd be keen to get a diagnosis done on whether there IS a bone infection and has it changed size since last X-ray? then the turnout plan might be the best option.

 

[Gloi]

We haven’t cushions tested may get vet up next week to run it (can’t harm) I have tried to do what you’ve said with attachment but no idea how to do it, going to look if I could maybe do a google photo drop box and post the link ?

I think it may be the angle and the fact he had the front shaved off for the nerve block? You can literally squeez all of his foot ect and he has no problem ( he is a sensitive soul and would let me know if it was hurting him) usually if he looses a shoe he comes up lame so I’m thinking am I best to try the shoe back on, the farrier has been great though out process and has been calling in when ever passing to check vet and farrier both seem stumped on what it could be (the two vets and 3 vet students final years) I could potentially sedate him to travel but my worry is him coming out of it as it’s 2 hours yes my husband said good luck with the m5 he travels for business so I think we’d need to wait until it was clear

100% do the Cushing's test.
I swear by Hoof Armour these days. It puts a tough layer over the sole of the hoof and helps stop grit or mud getting in any white line defects. You need to buy the applicator the first time but after that is very cost effective. It might help you if you are thinking of turning out barefoot.

 

[IrishMilo]

I think this is a case of less is more. If he were mine? Shoes off, turn out for 3 months, no grass (or as little as you can figure) and let nature do its thing. The feet aren't healthy, and it's clear shoes aren't working.

 

[Milo123]

I have no suggestions to offer re: diagnosis. Personally I would if possible turn out and wait, rather than do expensive diagnostics. As you are self funding, you aren’t on the clock of the insurance company. If he’s bored and wanting to do something and is sound in walk would you consider gentle walk hacks when the shoe goes back on? Not for the sake of riding but for his sake. I’d do this with my beloved 27 year old, who gets so bored and so cross if not kept busy.

Yes prior to vet wanting him on box test we was walking miles our winter turnout is very limited ( could be an option to move but with half hour of me it’s only my yard) our summer grazing is due to open in two weeks and I’ve half tempted to give him a month on grass and re asses then it’s really hard to know what’s best but vet said definitely not lami from X-rays and the two taken where about 3-4 weeks apart