Running out of ideas... Suggestions please

[Abi90]

I have a very lovely rising 8 year old ISH who is an absolute softie. He's the bravest horse out hacking and often leads the older horses through "spooky" situations. His flat work is coming on nicely and he really really tries and is all round a very nice horse...

BUT...

He is terrified of poles and therefore coloured jumps and despite my best (and the more experienced staff on the yard) we are making next to no progress. We've tried the slowly slowly approach by introducing him to them on foot then on the lunge and then ridden. We've tried the just keep doing them until he realised there isn't an issue approach. Normally by the end of a session he's chilled as anything and plods over them happily. But then here is real catch, as soon as you put him back in the stable/field he seems to forget everything and put a pole in front of him again and he goes back to square one.

He had an Irish hunter childhood and has done no real schooling so is very green for his age and whilst he has a fantastic leap in him and will take you into a fence in a genuine manner once he settled its a battle to get there.

This has been on ongoing battle for over 6 months and I don't feel like we are getting anywhere at any rate other than a snails pace. I don't want to give up on him as he is otherwise an absolutely brilliant horse who is coming so nicely in every other way.

I feel he has been frightened at some point or had a bad experience as its not just an uncertainty it is genuine fear of coloured jumping equipment.

If anyone has any suggestions or simply words of encouragement then please let me know!

 

[Charlie007]

Would it be an option to put poles on route to the field so he sees them every day?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Would it be an option to put poles on route to the field so he sees them every day?

That is exactly what I would do, the field gateway and as many other points as possible until he becomes comp!merely desensitized and considers them to be everyday objects.

 

[Abi90]

That is something we haven't tried. It's worth a go.

 

[Mari]

Will he follow another horse, or 2, 3, 4 or more, over the poles both in hand & ridden at walk? Maybe include a variety of objects eg bending round cones, & TREC style activities such as walking between poles.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Would it be an option to put poles on route to the field so he sees them every day?

That is exactly what I would do, the field gateway and as many other points as possible until he becomes comp!merely desensitized and considers them to be everyday objects.

This would be my suggestion.

Also dot them around his feild too so that they become boring and not worth his energy

 

[Abi90]

Will he follow another horse, or 2, 3, 4 or more, over the poles both in hand & ridden at walk? Maybe include a variety of objects eg bending round cones, & TREC style activities such as walking between poles.

He loves TREC. Very laid back about it. He'll walk between poles as well. It's over than that is an issue!

We're going to do more getting him to follow to prove to him that they won't eat him.

 

[shadowboy]

What's his actual reaction to them? Does he cat-leap; stop or run out?

 

[ycbm]

I wonder if he's been rapped in the past to make him jump poles higher? Is he even worse if you stand a person at either end of the pole?

 

[AdorableAlice]

I would put a line of poles in front of his stable door, probably not possible if you are not on a private yard sadly. Then poles on the way to his turnout and sessions of turnout in a school cluttered with poles and wings (cups off)

The fact that he can and will settle in a session but revert to square one immediately after worries me. Does he have any other sight or nervous issues over anything. Even the most dim of horses retain their lessons eventually. Repetition usually works.

I have a nervous and highly suspicious youngster who has taken time to bring on, but once he had been shown something a few times he did absorb and retain the training and we are able to move on, he is a real special needs type.

 

[DiamondMartella]

I wonder if he's been rapped in the past to make him jump poles higher? Is he even worse if you stand a person at either end of the pole?

Along same lines as this. He could have been rapped or taped.
I have (now my mothers horse) a lovely Irish sports horse who, when faced with going anywhere near, be it over, around within half a meter vicinity of a coloured pole either does a massive spook, shakes, snorts, trembles and has been known to poo herself. I did manage to get her over a fence once, took a lot of firm leg, no contact and she trembled so much and had such bad diarrhea it wasn't fair on her.

After putting two and two together (this happened three days after she arrived with us) using my brain I decided to take her round the woods over some logs.

No trembling, no spooking, no poo!!

She had therefore been rapped. Her complete fear of electric fencing anywhere near her especially if the tape is on the floor gives me a slight feeling she may have been taped too.

This could be the same for your horse. Maybe you should try what ycbm said with two people standing either side of the coloured pole.

Also will he jump a coloured pole out of the arena?

 

[Luci07]

Repetition. As others said, leaving a pole in the doorway of his box, walking him over poles on the way out to the field and make it commonplace. Does work eventually.

 

[awolstencroft]

Hi, just reading through and I was wondering whether you could explain what being taped is?

 

[Michen]

Hi, just reading through and I was wondering whether you could explain what being taped is?

Rapped. When they hit the horse with the poles as they jump to make them jump higher and cleaner

 

[DiamondMartella]

Taped is where electric fencing is placed above the top pole of the jump, high enough so when the top pole is lifted the electric fencing is still higher. The electric charge is running through the fencing. When the horse goes over the top pole along is lifted as close to the electric fencing as possible so the horse hits the pole, thus getting the force of the electric shock and the wooden pole. Theory behind it is they lift there front feet up higher as they then associated hitting the fence with pain, therefore making more careful jumpers.

 

[awolstencroft]

Oh my word that's terrible! I cant believe people are so hell bent on winning they mistreat their horses! I had heard about rapping before but never a horse being taped...

 

[FfionWinnie]

Taped is where electric fencing is placed above the top pole of the jump, high enough so when the top pole is lifted the electric fencing is still higher. The electric charge is running through the fencing. When the horse goes over the top pole along is lifted as close to the electric fencing as possible so the horse hits the pole, thus getting the force of the electric shock and the wooden pole. Theory behind it is they lift there front feet up higher as they then associated hitting the fence with pain, therefore making more careful jumpers.

Surely more likely to trip the horse than achieve anything else.

 

[bollybop]

What's he like with working hunter type poles/xc jumps?

Might be worth getting eye sight checked as well

 

[DiamondMartella]

They hit the leg not the hoof so they don't trip. Occasionally results in a fall but the people that do this are very experienced, they know when to move the pole and slack the fencing.

 

[Abi90]

What's he like with working hunter type poles/xc jumps?

Might be worth getting eye sight checked as well

He's a absolutely fine with XC and working hunter style jumps. Anything "rustic" he considers to be fine. His eyesight was checked not that long ago and is fine.

He did seem to retain some of yesterday's session today and happily and calmly trotted over a very small cross pole even after knocking it quite loudly.

 

[Abi90]

The fact that he can and will settle in a session but revert to square one immediately after worries me. Does he have any other sight or nervous issues over anything. Even the most dim of horses retain their lessons eventually. Repetition usually works.
.

He's a pretty chilled out guy at everything else in his life. He's not really very spooky at all unless something very unexpected happens (such as a lamb jumping off a steep bit by the side of the road at him and even then his reaction was minimal). He did TREC the other day and after being shown stuff a few times was fine and retained that and will now do the same obstacles against with no issue.

I am being a bit unfair to say he has gone back to square one every day. When I first got him I could not even walk him over a cross pole in hand. We seem to have conquered that and with me he will walk over them without any fuss, he tries to kick up a stink with others.

he clearly knows what he is doing as once he settles be takes you into the baby fences quite nicely and sorts his stride out himself. Which is why I think he has had a. As experience as soon as he realises the jump isn't going to hurt him he settles and goes quite nicely.


I think you are right that repetition is the key, he just may need more repetition than some!

 

[DiamondMartella]

He's a absolutely fine with XC and working hunter style jumps. Anything "rustic" he considers to be fine. His eyesight was checked not that long ago and is fine.

He did seem to retain some of yesterday's session today and happily and calmly trotted over a very small cross pole even after knocking it quite loudly.

The mare I have is fine with Rustic but not coloured.

She is a lost cause. However.

I agree, if hes getting slowly better then repetition, lots of reward when he does go over them and taking slow and easy, keep engaging his brain so he doesn't get bored of it also, and switches off. Once he knows they are not going to eat him and you are not going to cause him discomfort he will come to it.

Good luck

 

[Tyssandi]

I have a very lovely rising 8 year old ISH who is an absolute softie. He's the bravest horse out hacking and often leads the older horses through "spooky" situations. His flat work is coming on nicely and he really really tries and is all round a very nice horse...

BUT...

He is terrified of poles and therefore coloured jumps and despite my best (and the more experienced staff on the yard) we are making next to no progress. We've tried the slowly slowly approach by introducing him to them on foot then on the lunge and then ridden. We've tried the just keep doing them until he realised there isn't an issue approach. Normally by the end of a session he's chilled as anything and plods over them happily. But then here is real catch, as soon as you put him back in the stable/field he seems to forget everything and put a pole in front of him again and he goes back to square one.

He had an Irish hunter childhood and has done no real schooling so is very green for his age and whilst he has a fantastic leap in him and will take you into a fence in a genuine manner once he settled its a battle to get there.

This has been on ongoing battle for over 6 months and I don't feel like we are getting anywhere at any rate other than a snails pace. I don't want to give up on him as he is otherwise an absolutely brilliant horse who is coming so nicely in every other way.

I feel he has been frightened at some point or had a bad experience as its not just an uncertainty it is genuine fear of coloured jumping equipment.

If anyone has any suggestions or simply words of encouragement then please let me know!

Sorry for you as my first mare was like this, we were left to do working hunter and cross country only. Turned out she later had uveitis and cataracts and I think the coloured poles were to much but fine with rustic till her vision left her.

Have you tried leaving coloured poles and jumps in his field

 

[Abi90]

Thank you all for your kind replies.

I had been a bit unfair to him in my original description as he has improved. His reaction has lessened from "ahhhhhh I'm going to die and have a panic attack and canter around the arena like a madman" to "no, I'm going to have a tantrum and stomp my feet and wiggle my bum around a bit and oh alright I'll go over".

I'm hoping he is not a lost cause as he would make a lovely all rounder as he's great and so genuine at everything else.

ETA: weirdly when he was doing TREC he had no issues with walking over 2 poles sat on a sheet of bright blue tarpaulin... So I don't think it's colour per se

 

[Abi90]

I would have to ask about poles on his field as he's on a livery yard and. Not sure how they would feel but if you don't ask you don't get!

 

[Orainn]

Would it be an option to give him some time alone (although supervised) in the school after one of your successful sessions? Just ten minutes to himself (loose, tack off) to have a look at the poles and process what he's learnt without anything specific being asked of him. That could help him to retain his progress a little more.

 

[Abi90]

Would it be an option to give him some time alone (although supervised) in the school after one of your successful sessions? Just ten minutes to himself (loose, tack off) to have a look at the poles and process what he's learnt without anything specific being asked of him. That could help him to retain his progress a little more.

Absolutely. That's a good idea.

 

[Abi90]

Along same lines as this. He could have been rapped or taped.
I have (now my mothers horse) a lovely Irish sports horse who, when faced with going anywhere near, be it over, around within half a meter vicinity of a coloured pole either does a massive spook, shakes, snorts, trembles and has been known to poo herself. I did manage to get her over a fence once, took a lot of firm leg, no contact and she trembled so much and had such bad diarrhea it wasn't fair on her.

After putting two and two together (this happened three days after she arrived with us) using my brain I decided to take her round the woods over some logs.

No trembling, no spooking, no poo!!

She had therefore been rapped. Her complete fear of electric fencing anywhere near her especially if the tape is on the floor gives me a slight feeling she may have been taped too.

This could be the same for your horse. Maybe you should try what ycbm said with two people standing either side of the coloured pole.

Also will he jump a coloured pole out of the arena?

Similar reaction but not anywhere near as severe. Same situation as well. I have previously thought he may have been rapped as he has a much bigger reaction if he catches a pole with his feet. Even if another horse catches a pole with its foot he jumps at first. Sound seems to be as much of a stimuli as the pole itself.

 

[Tobiano]

I've not tried this myself but have read that horses need a day or 2 to process what they have learned and one trainer (sorry can't remember who!) gives the horse a couple of days in between trying the same exercise which apparently helps them process the learning. Not sure if you have taken this approach but might be worth a try? Another option (no experience myself) could be clicker training but I think you may have to start with easier tasks and build up to the poles. He sounds lovely by the way!

 

[Abi90]

I mean who could give up on this lovely face... Couldn't resist a picture

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