Running out of ideas with this snot!

[lelabell]

just looking for similar experiences and or any suggestions on some mucus/snot!
My mare has had a runny/snotty nose since March. I thought it was maybe a secondary infection from her being scoped for ulcers in Feb.
She was put on Norodine and Danilon for 7 days and whilst she was on it she was good. Not much snot and it looked a better colour. She was still short of breath at this point as well so I put her on Ventipulmin.

3 days after the norodine stopped, the horrible mucus started again and so she was put back on norodine for 7 days, again the mucus cleared and she was not breathless anymore.

Norodine stopped again and I thought that we had got rid of whatever this problem was. This morning I have been greeted by a big cough and mucus coming from her mouth and the YO has been up and found more horrible gunk on the floor.

Vet thinks Sinusitis.. but that cant come from her mouth can it?!

ANY help - much appreciated.

 

[ycbm]

Has the vet suggested scoping to find the source of the infection, and culturing to find the type of bug she is fighting?

 

[lelabell]

Has the vet suggested scoping to find the source of the infection, and culturing to find the type of bug she is fighting?

Vet has considered scoping, but I was not sure of what this entails. She hasn't said about culturing the snot though.

 

[be positive]

Has the vet suggested scoping to find the source of the infection, and culturing to find the type of bug she is fighting?

This is the obvious route to take, I guess you are treating her as if she has COPD and reduced any dust/ soaked hay or tried haylage/ turned out as much as possible, antibiotics can stop the symptoms but they will come back if the cause has not gone.
I think any thick discharge can end up in the mouth and come out that way as well as down the nose especially if they don't have their heads down grazing, so overnight in the stable it will build up and appear worse than it might when outside.

Culturing is easily done just ask for a test kit and take it yourself to save a visit if the surgery is near enough to get to, when they scope they will take a deep sample to test.

 

[lelabell]

This is the obvious route to take, I guess you are treating her as if she has COPD and reduced any dust/ soaked hay or tried haylage/ turned out as much as possible, antibiotics can stop the symptoms but they will come back if the cause has not gone.
I think any thick discharge can end up in the mouth and come out that way as well as down the nose especially if they don't have their heads down grazing, so overnight in the stable it will build up and appear worse than it might when outside.

Culturing is easily done just ask for a test kit and take it yourself to save a visit if the surgery is near enough to get to.

Ye, she is on haylage in the mornings, on a respiratory liquid, wet feeds and turn out during the day. Still on Norodine as well.
Thanks, I will ask for a test kit. Will they accept the sample if it has been on the ground, as I am no good at catching the snot mid-air.

 

[be positive]

Ye, she is on haylage in the mornings, on a respiratory liquid, wet feeds and turn out during the day. Still on Norodine as well.
Thanks, I will ask for a test kit. Will they accept the sample if it has been on the ground, as I am no good at catching the snot mid-air.

No it mustn't be contaminated, a bit from her nostrils would be best but if not I think scoping would be the best way forward and if possible getting her out 24/7 may allow it to clear if nothing shows up that is easily treated.

 

[ycbm]

Vet has considered scoping, but I was not sure of what this entails. She hasn't said about culturing the snot though.

Sticking a camera on the end of a thick wire up her nose. I think you need it done soon if things don't clear. She may be one of the horses who needs a hole in the head and antibiotics and flushing directly into the infection site. It's pretty common.

 

[lelabell]

No it mustn't be contaminated, a bit from her nostrils would be best but if not I think scoping would be the best way forward and if possible getting her out 24/7 may allow it to clear if nothing shows up that is easily treated.

Sticking a camera on the end of a thick wire up her nose. I think you need it done soon if things don't clear. She may be one of the horses who needs a hole in the head and antibiotics and flushing directly into the infection site. It's pretty common.

Thankfully, they will be going out for the summer soon!
Poor pony just can't catch a break!! Shes just been cleared of ulcers and i feel they are gonna come back with all this medication and procedures.

 

[ihatework]

Sounds like you need to find the source of the infection.
Definitely a time for scoping and potentially head X-rays

 

[lelabell]

Sounds like you need to find the source of the infection.
Definitely a time for scoping and potentially head X-rays

ye poor pony. My poor bank balance!!

 

[ester]

So the norodine did work, as it did knock back the infection (which is different to it not working at all and the bacteria being resistant) so the likelihood is that the infection has a more deep seated source so yes, scoping to start, maybe xrays.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Thankfully, they will be going out for the summer soon!
Poor pony just can't catch a break!! Shes just been cleared of ulcers and i feel they are gonna come back with all this medication and procedures.

Sadly going out for the summer may exacerbate her snot. You really need to scope and culture. The vets will then have a chance of finding out what is going on. Pollen and heat/weather changes will/could make her worse.

Last year my young horses were competing at various venues and in July both presented with a soft cough and pale discharge from the nose. At the time I wasn't worried, many youngsters, rather like kids going to pre school, pick up the snots and sniffles when they get out and about.

Nine months on and many thousands of pounds later the horses are still not 100% right and getting them fit again, getting the management right and hopefully, a full recovery is proving difficult.

 

[HeyMich]

A friend's horse had the same. She had her sinuses flushed out via a drill-hole in her forehead, which did clear it up initially. The the snot then came back with a vengence! Turns out she had an infected tooth, and the sinusitis was secondary to the tooth infection. Another operation to remove the tooth, and another sinus flush out and she's better. Quite expensive process overall, but worth it for the health of the horse! Good luck, hope yours clears up too xx

 

[racebuddy]

def needs scoping initially full dental check and head xrays , is she insured ?

 

[lelabell]

Thankfully yes! Still have an ongoing claim for her ulcers at the moment!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Vet has considered scoping, but I was not sure of what this entails. She hasn't said about culturing the snot though.

I took my pony to our vets last Friday for a scope to find out why she is coughing. It started 4 weeks ago and was getting worst, though improved for three days while on steroids so needed to get to the bottom before it got too bad.

They first listen to her breathing, and then sedated her and inserted a camera into her airway, from that they put a little saline into the lungs and extracted the cells and sent them top liphook. She is currently on the last day of Ventapulmin and has been on steroids.

Picture one is the vets removing some saline with cells to send to Liphook

She coughs after rolling, lying down and other times, but it is easing so the extended steroids have helped. We soak her haylage an hour now, and changed her bedding onto Bliss Eucalyptus and leaver her out till 8 pm and out in the morning asap. All this has helped, but still waiting on results.

Also washed her stable was so free of dust and cobwebs.

Picture two is where the airways divides into both lungs and notice the skin between is slightly thickened which it should not be.

Picture three is taking more samples of cells after she coughed and the fluid is a bit discoloured in both samples which it should not be, The foam stuff is the natural fluid which prevents the lungs from not inflating.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Poor pony just can't catch a break!! Shes just been cleared of ulcers and i feel they are gonna come back with all this medication and procedures.

I know the feeling, first liver enzymes sky high - .. got those down and colic too often......... results IBD and now this. She is only 12hh and gone through all this in 2 years.

 

[Britestar]

Infected tooth can do all that. Ask for head xrays.

 

[lelabell]

Thank you everyone who has commented.
After speaking with the vet, she wants to get head x-rays and if it shows anything they can do a flush/wash/dental treatment.
So nervous her ulcers come back with all this

 

[Zuzzie]

Infected tooth can do all that. Ask for head xrays.

Yep, can identify with this! My horse had to have a tooth removed as he had green, smelly snot. The tooth was removed under sedation standing and was a success. However, the snot came back. Vet treated with antibiotics which didn't clear it. Then they took sample to identify bacteria and treated with more specific antibiotics. Nothing seemed to work so they were talking about drilling a hole under his eye socket to flush the sinuses. At this point I decided to turn the horse out 24/7 where he would have his nose down on the floor draining the snot naturally. Finally, the problem cleared up thanks to him having his head down!

 

[scats]

I took my pony to our vets last Friday for a scope to find out why she is coughing. It started 4 weeks ago and was getting worst, though improved for three days while on steroids so needed to get to the bottom before it got too bad.

They first listen to her breathing, and then sedated her and inserted a camera into her airway, from that they put a little saline into the lungs and extracted the cells and sent them top liphook. She is currently on the last day of Ventapulmin and has been on steroids.

Picture one is the vets removing some saline with cells to send to Liphook

She coughs after rolling, lying down and other times, but it is easing so the extended steroids have helped. We soak her haylage an hour now, and changed her bedding onto Bliss Eucalyptus and leaver her out till 8 pm and out in the morning asap. All this has helped, but still waiting on results.

Also washed her stable was so free of dust and cobwebs.

Picture two is where the airways divides into both lungs and notice the skin between is slightly thickened which it should not be.

Picture three is taking more samples of cells after she coughed and the fluid is a bit discoloured in both samples which it should not be, The foam stuff is the natural fluid which prevents the lungs from not inflating.

Diva had thickening between those two branches into the lung, which they put down to general inflammation from her breathing.

It’s interesting to see images of a normal horses trachea, the Diva’s look very different.

 

[lelabell]

Hello all, just thought I would update this post. So as in the OP, my mare had been on 3 courses of Norodine and 1 tub of Ventipulman, but was still snotting everywhere. She was tested for Strangles and it came back clear (I knew it would) but it was the responsible thing to do.
Anyway, she got referred to the local equine hospital yesterday for investigation. She got head x-rays to look at her teeth and sinuses. Vet said her sinuses were lovely and clear and her tooth roots were lovely and sharp edged. There was one tooth (5th molar) that was slightly discoloured and vet says she might need a filling!! Do horses even get that?! Haha!!!
Since her head was clear the vet then scoped her lungs and did a flush. The colour of stuff in her lungs was proper yellow and disgusting. So she has a chest infection that just won’t go away! Samples being sent away for cultures so we can find out what antibiotics she needs. Phew! So relieved that it’s not sinus/tooth. Which means we can go to riding club camp this weekend! Yay!!!!

 

[Zuzzie]

Mystery solved! Good that you have some answers and can treat accordingly.

 

[lelabell]

Hello all, just thought I would update this post. So as in the OP, my mare had been on 3 courses of Norodine and 1 tub of Ventipulman, but was still snotting everywhere. She was tested for Strangles and it came back clear (I knew it would) but it was the responsible thing to do.
Anyway, she got referred to the local equine hospital yesterday for investigation. She got head x-rays to look at her teeth and sinuses. Vet said her sinuses were lovely and clear and her tooth roots were lovely and sharp edged. There was one tooth (5th molar) that was slightly discoloured and vet says she might need a filling!! Do horses even get that?! Haha!!!
Since her head was clear the vet then scoped her lungs and did a flush. The colour of stuff in her lungs was proper yellow and disgusting. So she has a chest infection that just won’t go away! Samples being sent away for cultures so we can find out what antibiotics she needs. Phew! So relieved that it’s not sinus/tooth. Which means we can go to riding club camp this weekend! Yay!!!!

So.... cultures and microbiology came back from the flush of her lungs and she has IAD (Inflammatory Airway Disease)... poor pony.

 

[Fransurrey]

I was going to suggest IAD. They don't use the term COPD in horses anymore as horses have pathology more aligned to human asthma. I'm sure vet has already suggested it, but you may have to review management as IAD often leads to recurrent airway obstruction (RAO), which is not reversible. The bacteria your mare is struggling with is due to the thickened mucus, so she'll continue to struggle until you remove the trigger, as bacteria bind to the mucins in mucus. Normally they're removed by the mucociliary clearance (MCC) mechanism, but this doesn't work well with thickened mucus. It's like paddling through treacle rather than water. For the same reason human patients with CF and COPD are more at risk from infection.