louincrew
Well-Known Member
ok just a quick question. Have any of you bought the runt of the litter before? Are they more likely to develope and problems due to their size weight etc?
runt of the litter
- Thread starter louincrew
- Start date
Maisy
Well-Known Member
I have 2 'runts' from different litters. THe first grew to be bigger than all of the others; the 2nd, was only 5oz born, and looked like a mouse against the others (they were between 9 and 13 oz). He is now 9 months and is nearly as big as the biggest brother, and is still growing. He is also the sweetest natured dog!!
The first one I had is now 11, and has had no health problems to speak of (touch wood). Certainly none due to him being the runt!
The first one I had is now 11, and has had no health problems to speak of (touch wood). Certainly none due to him being the runt!
louincrew
Well-Known Member
Brill thank you for your reply.
k9h
Well-Known Member
I have had runts of the litter.
Personally I think they are the best as they have had to fight for it all the time! They tend to have great personalities!
Personally I think they are the best as they have had to fight for it all the time! They tend to have great personalities!
Archangel
Normal, 10 cats ago
Yes, I did, many years ago. Once he was away from his greedy, pushy litter mates
he just grew and grew and ended up the biggest (and the best obviously). He lived until he was 16 and never had any health problems.
ladylisa
Well-Known Member
I have bred 2 litters of weimaraners and the runts of the litters were never the last to go! In the first litter the first one to be sold was the runt and then in the second litter the second to be sold.
My oldest girl was the runt of the litter she is a little smaller than what is average for the breed, but has no problems because of it.
My oldest girl was the runt of the litter she is a little smaller than what is average for the breed, but has no problems because of it.
louincrew
Well-Known Member
wow- nice to hear such great responses.
A lady who has seen pictures of the pups we have has fallen in love with the runt. Although she is small, she has been putting on weight daily and is starting to push her way in! I told the lady i will head down to my vet today to get some advise, but it is nice to get 'hands on experiance' from you guys. thanks x
A lady who has seen pictures of the pups we have has fallen in love with the runt. Although she is small, she has been putting on weight daily and is starting to push her way in! I told the lady i will head down to my vet today to get some advise, but it is nice to get 'hands on experiance' from you guys. thanks x
Dizzykizzy
Well-Known Member
We kept the littlest one out of our litter and she definitely isn't the smallest now at 7 months....and she is definitely the cutest!!
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Totally agree that the runt of the litter often turns out to be the star of the litter
We had a tiny dog pup in a litter, half the weight of the rest at birth. We called him Blott (after Blott on the Landscape which was on tv at the time, this was quite a few years ago). He was still tiny at 8 weeks but the people who took him had fallen for him at 5 weeks old. They actually kept the name Blott and he grew up into a gorgeous dog, and by the time he was about 6 months he was normal GSD size.
echodomino
Well-Known Member
I kept the runt of one of mum's litters. She was 4oz (others nearer 1lb if not 1lb) we nearly lost her. She had the biggest character out of the lot, probably encouraged out of her because I spoilt her
LOL. She's now the same size as her sister who mum kept and is probably one of the best we've bred and has so far had a cracking show career
Oneofthepack
Well-Known Member
Yes I've had 2, one had to be PTS aged 3 because of failed kidneys and the other had to be PTS because he had serious mental problems that were very distressing for him and us. Not all runts turn out like this as others will testify but my view is they're usually runts for a reason.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Only bad breeders have runts in their litters.
fmay
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Only bad breeders have runts in their litters.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a bit of a sweeping remark
but I'll answer the question asked intially
We chose the runt of a litter (from a very good breeder) when we had 9 to choose from. There have been no problems with her growth or health
Only bad breeders have runts in their litters.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a bit of a sweeping remark
We chose the runt of a litter (from a very good breeder) when we had 9 to choose from. There have been no problems with her growth or health
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
As a breeder myself who has said they have had a runt in a litter I think that is a very sweeping remark to make SM. How have you come to that conclusion?
ladylisa
Well-Known Member
Im really interested to know how "only a bad breeder have runts in their litters"
louincrew
Well-Known Member
also interested to know
If a mother has twins and one is much smaller- is she a bad mother?!!!!!!
If a mother has twins and one is much smaller- is she a bad mother?!!!!!!
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Maybe it was a sweeping remark and I figured it would get that response, however I stand by it, unless the runt in question has endured some sort of illness or handicap. Before I had my first litter I was taught by a large kennel how important it is to keep an eye on the pups suckling and whether any were slipping behind. If they were it is the breeders duty to ensure they are placed on the teats that are producing more milk. I have to say, he gave great advice as there has never been more than 0.3kg difference in any of my pups (even the previous litter of 10) and that is including girls and boys, girls usually being slightly lighter.
Didn't mean to offend you or appear blunt MM.
Didn't mean to offend you or appear blunt MM.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
also interested to know
If a mother has twins and one is much smaller- is she a bad mother?!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
One is usually always born smaller, as with doublers (lambs) BUT the smaller one 'should' always catch up.
also interested to know
If a mother has twins and one is much smaller- is she a bad mother?!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
One is usually always born smaller, as with doublers (lambs) BUT the smaller one 'should' always catch up.
ladylisa
Well-Known Member
Anyone that is going to breed should know how to keep an eye on pups to make sure they are all getting enough, Any runts that i have had were runts at birth and soon caught up with the rest of the litter.
And i have never lost a pup to date, i may only have bred two litters, but it is still two litters where all survived.
And i have never lost a pup to date, i may only have bred two litters, but it is still two litters where all survived.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Then I don't believe that you sold a runt.
Mum's second JRT was one of three and when we collected him, he was almost half the size - that is a runt. And yes, he has heaps of character
Mum's second JRT was one of three and when we collected him, he was almost half the size - that is a runt. And yes, he has heaps of character
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
I don't completely agree with SevernMistletoe, an umbilical cord could possibly get a little caught and such. But I wouldn't buy a runt that the brood-bitch rejected if she took good care of the other puppies.
Can't say I've any statistic to proof it, but I know of more than one case were a otherwise good "mother" have rejected a runt or another puppy/kitten in the litter and the breeder have stepped in and days, weeks later it turns out something is wrong with the one the mother rejected. On other hand I've also heard about cases were a runt haven't been rejected and turned out okay.
Then there's always the question if what some call a runt, is the same as what I call a runt. Some always call the smallest puppy a runt, but to me a runt is substantially smaller and/or weaker.
Can't say I've any statistic to proof it, but I know of more than one case were a otherwise good "mother" have rejected a runt or another puppy/kitten in the litter and the breeder have stepped in and days, weeks later it turns out something is wrong with the one the mother rejected. On other hand I've also heard about cases were a runt haven't been rejected and turned out okay.
Then there's always the question if what some call a runt, is the same as what I call a runt. Some always call the smallest puppy a runt, but to me a runt is substantially smaller and/or weaker.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
FL, No breeder can alter what happens during pregnancy. However if a newborn puppy is noticeably small, with the right management it should have caught up with the rest of the litter within the first month.
Tia
Well-Known Member
Well I am not a dog breeder but when my dog became pregnant I read a lot about raising puppies, and of course having bred horses for years, a lot was just common sense.
When Lily had her puppies, all were the same size except one who was marginally bigger than the others; incidentally he died the first night as Lily allowed him to wander away from her further down her bed and did not bring him back to the warm. She was a maiden so didn't really know what she was doing.
The other pups were still podgy healthy pups, however I was very aware of any slight differences, by the day, never mind a month. I quickly found out which of her teats had the "good stuff" in them and whenever I saw a pup looking slightly smaller than the others (this could happen overnight) then I popped them on her super-teats and by that night, they had noticably grown. I kept doing this to keep them all at the same weight and it worked for me as all puppies, by the time they left here, were plump fluffy and healthy little things.
I do agree that runts (in my mind) are puppies who have had something untoward go on inside mums tum, and they are not just smaller puppies.
When Lily had her puppies, all were the same size except one who was marginally bigger than the others; incidentally he died the first night as Lily allowed him to wander away from her further down her bed and did not bring him back to the warm. She was a maiden so didn't really know what she was doing.
The other pups were still podgy healthy pups, however I was very aware of any slight differences, by the day, never mind a month. I quickly found out which of her teats had the "good stuff" in them and whenever I saw a pup looking slightly smaller than the others (this could happen overnight) then I popped them on her super-teats and by that night, they had noticably grown. I kept doing this to keep them all at the same weight and it worked for me as all puppies, by the time they left here, were plump fluffy and healthy little things.
I do agree that runts (in my mind) are puppies who have had something untoward go on inside mums tum, and they are not just smaller puppies.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I think most of us who have had "runts" in a litter have stated that they did catch up. In the case of my pup not within a month but before he reached 6 months. Careful management by a breeder can ensure that a much smaller pup gets enough food and is not pushed out by his litter mates, but you cannot force feed them, they will grow at their own pace. I do agree though, and have learnt from bitter experience, that if a bitch rejects a pup it is sadly best to accept that there is something wrong with it and it will not thrive.
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
I hadn't read your second reply when I replied SevernMistletoe. I had only read to your first reply and then I had other things to do, not to mention the distracting "Who sent what message etc."-threads going on in Soapbox.
When I said "Then there's always the question if what some call a runt, is the same as what I call a runt. Some always call the smallest puppy a runt, but to me a runt is substantially smaller and/or weaker." I should have made it clearer, but I've heard/read about people who always call the smallest a runt, regardless about how much smaller it is, the smallest is a runt.
Personally a runt to me is substantially smaller and/or weaker and it stays that way, even though eating as much as it's siblings etc. So if a puppy is born much smaller/weaker (due to something we don't know during it's time "inside") but catches up by itself after birth, then I don't think of it as a runt, because I think it has what it needs to become a normal/average sized adult.
I've had "litters" of Hamster, Guinea Pigs, Budgerigar, Cat and last summer my first Dog and with one exception, I just make sure the mother is fed well, I keep an eye on that they gain weight and with the cat, dog litters, I made sure they sucked the teats.
The exception happened with the cat, if somebody wonders. First two she she was "perfect" mother, third came and she took one look and didn't care. But I couldn't see anything wrong, he had good size and fought to find a teat, so I helped. He grew and seemed as normal as the first two, took them to the veterinarian for vacc. and check up and as I recall, you could describe it as if he had a big inside hernia in his abdomen. We could have put him through a difficult operation with uncertain outcome but if it went okay, there would still always be a big risk for complications, so he was euthanized.
I don't quite like the thought of putting puppies on the best teats, I've always only bred to keep one or more for myself (though the cat escaped from what we thought was our well fenced in garden) and especially with the dog litter, I don't want to interfere to much more with nature, considering that I've already decided the mother and father, if you understand what I mean.
But then regardless of animal-sort, I've never had a runt, so maybe I'll act/think differently if I get one.
When I said "Then there's always the question if what some call a runt, is the same as what I call a runt. Some always call the smallest puppy a runt, but to me a runt is substantially smaller and/or weaker." I should have made it clearer, but I've heard/read about people who always call the smallest a runt, regardless about how much smaller it is, the smallest is a runt.
Personally a runt to me is substantially smaller and/or weaker and it stays that way, even though eating as much as it's siblings etc. So if a puppy is born much smaller/weaker (due to something we don't know during it's time "inside") but catches up by itself after birth, then I don't think of it as a runt, because I think it has what it needs to become a normal/average sized adult.
I've had "litters" of Hamster, Guinea Pigs, Budgerigar, Cat and last summer my first Dog and with one exception, I just make sure the mother is fed well, I keep an eye on that they gain weight and with the cat, dog litters, I made sure they sucked the teats.
The exception happened with the cat, if somebody wonders. First two she she was "perfect" mother, third came and she took one look and didn't care. But I couldn't see anything wrong, he had good size and fought to find a teat, so I helped. He grew and seemed as normal as the first two, took them to the veterinarian for vacc. and check up and as I recall, you could describe it as if he had a big inside hernia in his abdomen. We could have put him through a difficult operation with uncertain outcome but if it went okay, there would still always be a big risk for complications, so he was euthanized.
I don't quite like the thought of putting puppies on the best teats, I've always only bred to keep one or more for myself (though the cat escaped from what we thought was our well fenced in garden) and especially with the dog litter, I don't want to interfere to much more with nature, considering that I've already decided the mother and father, if you understand what I mean.
But then regardless of animal-sort, I've never had a runt, so maybe I'll act/think differently if I get one.
GinaB
Well-Known Member
Our Windsor was what many would have described as the runt of the litter and he turned out like this...
Not too shabby! He was a stubborn git but he was fab with a brilliant temperament.
Not too shabby! He was a stubborn git but he was fab with a brilliant temperament.
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
Forgot to say that I don't think the rejection-"rule" counts all the time. Such as if we're talking about foster-mothers, after caesarean or mothers that simply aren't that good at being mothers.