Ruptured cruciate, non surgical route......

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has anyone experienced this? Murphy is currently being treated for this, first vet said we would be lucky to find a vet that would do the surgery on such a heavy dog because of the likelihood of failure, second vet tried to push me towards surgical route. From the internet research I have done I don't want him to have the surgery, I would rather crate him and hope for a recovery that is then managed very carefully regarding exercise in the future to avoid a re- occurrence. If I am honest I am not convinced it is as bad as the second vet said, he has gone from completely no weight bearing to being able to slightly weight bear in less than a week (although I am discouraging him from moving around at all unless necessary). I intend booking him in with a physio and for hydrotherapy but just wondered if anyone can give me hope of success.
 
Thanks, he is a mastiff x, 69k and 5 years old. He IS overweight but has been on a diet for a few weeks and the weight is now coming off him slowly, he has been very restricted with exercise over the last few months because he was unsound (different injury) and unfortunately his food wasn't adjusted to take that into account. Not a mistake we would make again and I feel so cruel letting him put weight on when it is the worst thing for him, it has possibly been the cause of his current injury.:(
 
The one thing I would say (as a human osteopath and ex canine hydrotherapist) is whatever route you decide on, do as much hydro as you possibly can - 2-3 times a week if possible. It makes a huge difference to the healing process, keeps them fit and toned so they are less likely to re-injure or injure something else when they start walking again, and will help a huge amount with the weight loss while still on restricted exercise. Also helps to keep them mentally happy so they cope with cage rest/restrictions more happily.
 
We do cruciate surgery routinely at the practice I work at (i'm a vet nurse) and I also run our hydrotherapy unit.

In my experience it is highly unlikely that it will heal sufficiently without surgery I'm afraid, he is a big breed and overweight also. The only dogs that I've seen recover without surgery are very small dogs or dogs that will literally do nothing for months to let the ligament heal.

I know it's an operation but I think in your dogs case it may be the best route for a future good quality of life, the TPLO operation would be the best option for him with water treadmill hydrotherapy before and after surgery.

Just be warned that once one cruciate goes the other leg is more at risk, the risk is the same whether they have operation or not xx
 
Would also like to add that the longer you leave the decision the more muscle he will loose, therefore making the post op recovery period longer.

Ditto getting him doing hydro as much as poss xx
 
They generally do go from non weight bearing to light bearing, generally you can see the back stopper pad from behind when the dog is walking (touch bearing) and as supertrooper suggests in this size breed an op is generally the best way to go, my rotti has had both her cruciates done and my akita has has one done, I had a choice of leaving the akita to see if rest would help as hers was thought to be partial tear, but for a dog her size it was not an option I was prepared to take. Both mine are slender for their breed, mine did lots of swimming post op to help build muscle both have recovered fantastic and the rott you can not even tell, the akita has a little stiffness some days but she is 11 and had a full arthrodesis too and had a very painful recovery compared to the rott.
 
I know a once hugely overweight bullmastiff,he went on a long term weight loss programme;he started off lame as a tree due to cruciate problems..but ended up slimmed down ,not even limping and no surgery needed at all. Oh..and he belongs to a vet in Herne Bay!:eek:
 
My Greyhound did his cruciate ligament in May 2011. I have managed him conservatively. Throughout the summer he swam 5+ times a week. (We were lucky and had our own pool in the garden).
He was kept on the lead everytime he went out and exercise built up gradually. He is doing absolutely great and I'm so glad now I didn't put him through the surgery.
Ligament rupture can take months and months to heal and you need to be very disciplined and it's very important not to rush the recovery.

You may find this website of interest to you:-

http://www.tiggerpoz.com/

I spoke with three different vets at length re the content of this website and none of them could say that it was incorrect or wrong in any way.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.
 
*SJ* said:
My Greyhound did his cruciate ligament in May 2011. I have managed him conservatively. Throughout the summer he swam 5+ times a week. (We were lucky and had our own pool in the garden).
He was kept on the lead everytime he went out and exercise built up gradually. He is doing absolutely great and I'm so glad now I didn't put him through the surgery.
Ligament rupture can take months and months to heal and you need to be very disciplined and it's very important not to rush the recovery.

You may find this website of interest to you:-

http://www.tiggerpoz.com/

I spoke with three different vets at length re the content of this website and none of them could say that it was incorrect or wrong in any way.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! this confirms what I had already seen on various dog forums along with some brilliant information. I will see what the physio and hydrotherapy people say about how many sessions he can have and get him some booked for next week (which is the earliest the vet has allowed).

Thanks to everyone else for their input, I really don't want to do the surgery route if I can avoid it, I just don't don't think it is the right thing for Murphy.
 
My mum's large, overweight, 7 yr old lab ruptured his cruciate a couple of years ago. She couldn't afford surgery as she only had £1000 insurance. She rested him, took him to hydrotherapy and he became almost completely sound within 6 weeks. 2 years on and he a little stiff but that may be due to hip dyplasia and because the poor boy is still far too overweight but he is more than capable of a good walk twice a day and shows no sign of lameness.
 
Thanks, it is good to see positive stories. This decision really isn't about money (although it could have been a few years ago) , we are seriously looking at buying a canine swim spa, far more expensive than the op even if he needed it on both legs, as a long term investment in his health, so that he can swim every day. We simply wouldn't have the time to manage to take him to a commercial one every day although we will manage that in the short term to aid his recovery. I genuinely don't think the op would be successful for him, the first vet didn't think so either and I was not convinced by the hard sell of the second vet. TBH I had already made my decision before we even had the 'proper' diagnosis, after his first visit, from the information I had found. The website *SJ* recommended has just convinced me I was correct in my decision.
 
Keep us updated on this. I'd have thought a TPL would work brilliantly (although you'd probably need both done as Jake, my springer did) but I'm interested to see length of recovery compared to a surgical route.
 
Willie, our 60lb, fit, 8 year old mutt, has had TPLO on both back legs. The first time, we tried conservative medical management for 3 months and it did nothing for him. We had the surgery and I would say all told it took 8-12 months for him to come back fully from the tear. The second leg he tore, which was in December 2010, we had the surgery 3 weeks later (had to wait for the surgeon to be available) and within 6 months he was fully recovered and galloping around like nothing had happened. As Supertrooper says, I think that losing the muscle the first time increased his recovery time. Both times we couldn't include swimming in his rehab because of the time of year it was and because the nearest pool is over an hour away. He does like to swim though.

You wouldn't know now that he'd had any kind of surgery. He is a fool out on our walks and will run and run and run and jump and run and jump and run and jump :rolleyes:. About 2 or 3 times a week, in addition to our normal walk, I run as well for around a mile with all of my dogs along the trails and he doesn't bat an eyelid.

Let us know how it goes :).
 
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