Sad,confused thread :(

SarahRicoh said:
See this is where I get confused.. He went and I couldnt steer or stop so surely that not tanking... He came to me in a tom thumb bit
Click to expand...
If another rider had been on him who was a lot more experienced than you would they have been quick thinking enough to be able to stop him going when the other horse went? would they have been able to pull up after a few strides? would they have been able to stop and or steer? if the answer to any of these is yes he is not a bolter but a sensitive horse who went because the other horse went and then it became a race with 2 riders who were probably scared and did not have the experience to do anything about it.
 
I dont think anyone could have stopped him. As he started to go I tried everything to stop himm. Pulling,pull and release,turning,one rein stop. Maybe someone stronger could have stopped him I dont know
 
Ok OP, from your description I definitely think your horse is a tanker not a bolter. Horses can and do tank off due to an initial spook, then keep going through either continued fear or excitement. Galloping flat out down a hill would have left horse long and flat and on the forehand approaching the wall, possible skidding on tarmac won't have helped his balance either, resulting in the horse being unable to pick his front end up enough to clear the wall accurately. The impact of horse hitting wall unseated you.

In his attempt to jump he may also have momentarily hesitated to throw his weight back on his hocks a little before jumping, which may have thrown you forward slightly if your balance was a bit off. With you too far forward it would've been harder to lift his forehand and also leaves you in prime position to be catapulted off over his shoulder when he hit the wall.

Littlelegs gave a good description a few pages back of the difference between tanking and bolting.

Sounds like you have made a decision now anyway. It will probably do your confidence good to continue working with this horse. Good luck with it and I hope your injuries heal soon.
 
Gosh, it sounds as if you've got yourself into a right mess :-(

I agree with other's that these two problem ponies sounds as if they are far too much for you to deal with.

Do you have anyone very experienced that could give you some help? I think that the gelding needs assessing by someone very knowledgeable as to whether he is a bolter or not. If he is, i'm afraid that if you no longer wish to deal with him (i wouldn't want to!) it really would be better to PTS before he causes a serious accident. When i read your original post i'm sure that it said that he took you ACROSS a ROAD. You could have been killed, as well as potentially killing the driver & any passengers.

There are lots of lovely horses out there that need kind, loving homes. Please get some help quickly to sort your two problem ones out & move on to one that is steady & genuine & that you can enjoy.

Good luck.
 
SarahRicoh said:
Thanks Lauren... Um I suppose he tanks but he didnt stop or slow down for wall just flew at it and from his legs didnt manage it
Click to expand...

It was a tank, if he tried to dodge it (all be it not very well) then he wasn't running in a blind panic.

Try to think of it this way. When a Horse bolts, its like their mind is set. They are blind to whatever is around them, be it walls, people, cars etc. They have no awareness of things going on around them, which makes them so dangerous.

Its like a switch in their mind and then once the switch is flipped it doens't matter what the rider does, they are merely a passenger.

Bolters are rare and should not be ridden. Ever. After my experience, If I ever come accross a bolter and could not keep it as a field companion. It would be shot without a doubt.
 
It's obvious that the OP isn't experienced in that sort of behaviour enough to tell whether it was a tank or a bolt

People suggesting PTS isn't that helpful given the fact that she doesn't know and no one experienced enough was there to say what happened

OP - advertise him on Project Horses being totally honest about him. Any experienced person coming to view him will get a measure of you pretty quickly and will get an idea of what they are dealing with

If they are put off you'll have to think again

If you sell then cover yourself by saying you simply don't know whether he is a bolter and that you don't know if the last owner was equally unsure as to whether he was or not

You will not get anywhere near £500 but at least you will have been honest and giving the boy a chance

For goodness sake don't let someone clueless buy him, like I said earlier a project and a cheap horse are two different things sometimes!
 
SarahRicoh said:
Ps. The road was the road to our yard,never used really and as its in middle of country noones hardly ever around luckily
Click to expand...

So what would have happened if it had been a main road that had to be crossed to get to your yard?

Are you saying that because it was a quiet lane that you allowed him to gallop across it? Could you have turned/stopped for a main road with traffic?

You really don't sound experienced enough to deal with these problem ponies. I urge you to get help or pts before you, or they, have a nasty accident. Please do not sell them on.
 
FWIW I've ridden bad tankers and you only have a few strides to get them back before they're flat out and then its too late, being more about damage limitation by helping them maintain reasonable balance so they don't fall. You try to slow down again when you're on better ground, or they've started to tire, or they've relaxed a bit. The most useful skill is in realising they're about to go and taking preventative action.

You could help yourself by putting a second rein on the snaffle ring of the bit, even if you don't use it, its there to grab if he tanks off and may give you slightly better steering.
 
TBH I just feel very sorry for the horse.
He has come from an inexperienced home where he was too much for his owner and as she lacked the confidence for him, he has just taken the pee.
If he is 12, when was he broken to ride?
He is now in a home where the owner is questioning herself and the horse.
I am sorry for your accident and glad that neither of you were seriously hurt.
This horse needs someone who is strong, experienced and fearless to help him.
He sounds to me like he is one very scared horse.
Horses take a lot of their confidence from their rider.
It sounds to me like he didn't bolt but rather his flight instinct kicked in and neither of the two people who have ridden him so far have had the confidence or strength to teach him that he is ok and not about to be eaten any time soon.
I suggest that the OP seeks professional advice from a horse trainer.
Someone who can work with the horse on the ground and in the saddle to help his confidence.
Any thoughts of passing him on in his present state should be thrown out of the window unless he is being sold to a true professional who can work to sort out his issues.
As for the other project pony I would put that aside for the moment and invest your money, time and energy in sorting out this one.
If you can not sell on to a true professional who can deal with him or don't have the skills, time or money to invest in him then it would be kinder to have him pts.
I do not say that lightly as I am against killing horses unless for a very genuine reason.
I believe this horse is seriously lacking in confidence which was why he tanked off.
I really feel for this horse, wish I had the money to buy him myself as I would and then get someone to sort him out for me.
I hope his issues can be sorted, if not he really would be better of being pts rather than being passed from pillar to post with unsuitable owners which is what may happen :(
Good luck x
 
SarahRicoh said:
To me 'tanking' is a horse getting a bit strong and trying to run away from you that why Ive never said tanking off before but bolting was obviously incorrect too
Click to expand...

Yep, me too.

If your horse has bolted, repeatedly (and by my definition, it has) and you can't find a specific situation or trigger than you can either remove the horse from or train it gradually to accept, you either take your chances trying out different bits and being careful who you ride with and where you go and see how you go on - which sounds pretty risky to me, or really the most responsible thing to do is to pts.

This difference between tanking and bolting is pretty much that bolting is faster. A tanking horse just won't pull up, a bolting horse is f-ing off.
 
LaurenBay said:
It was a tank, if he tried to dodge it (all be it not very well) then he wasn't running in a blind panic.

Try to think of it this way. When a Horse bolts, its like their mind is set. They are blind to whatever is around them, be it walls, people, cars etc. They have no awareness of things going on around them, which makes them so dangerous.

Its like a switch in their mind and then once the switch is flipped it doens't matter what the rider does, they are merely a passenger.

Bolters are rare and should not be ridden. Ever. After my experience, If I ever come accross a bolter and could not keep it as a field companion. It would be shot without a doubt.
Click to expand...

I dont know how I feel about this bolt V tank thing. I know someone who had a bolter, ended up never ridden. That horse would bolt and never stop for people, but it didnt run into things! Thats kind of against the point as a horse bolts as self preservation why would it then run into things! The only horses I have ever known running into things are those that have gone mad and were shot if they didnt kill themselves. Sounds to me like the horse bolted for whatever reason. The rider couldnt get him back. He approached a wall too fast and out of balance and caught it throwing the rider. I would sort some professional schooling and sell on and get something that suits the riders needs
 
A bolter WILL jump things that are in its path, but it will also TRY to jump things that are beyond its capabilities. A tanker will jump things that are within its capabilities, but stop at something that is too big. That is the difference. OP sounds like your horse bolted to me.
 
Tanking isn't about the flight response, its about the horse using its strength to get its own way, a naughty habit that you can work with. Bolting is about fear, sometimes from a trigger or sometimes from inside the horse if its really lost confidence or has gone bonkers.
 
To prevent tanking you need to get him so that he's not strong all the time. If you're hanging off his mouth the whole hack, what do you do in an emergency when he tanks? You'll have to work out whether you need a change of bit, change of feed, more turnout, less grass, schooling in the arena for obedience, transitions on hacks to keep him listening, more hacking so its less exciting, or just more work in general so he's not always bursting out of his skin.

If he's about to go try pulling his head to your knee or turning sharply from one side to the other throwing him onto the forehand and losing his balance. If he can't engage the hindquarters he can't go off with power. Try turning round to face the other way, keeping reins short contact light and hands wide and low to prevent him spinning round. He probably only wants to tank off in his chosen direction.

Ride with stirrups a reasonable length not dressage length as some do, so you can get off his back if he starts to slip, giving him a better chance to regain his balance under you. Learn to hold a horse with your legs, seat, back, shoulders, so its not all about reins. Block his forward movement with your body so he can't gain maximum power from the back end. Ask for shallow turns so he's less likely to fall.

Use common sense. A few weeks ago I took an arthritic one out. Usually only walks. For some reason attitude changed and could feel was about to explode. No alternative route so turned down dead end asked for trot to let off steam, turned for home and walked round sharp bend then asked very gently for trot and flew up a hill extended trot hard pulling oncoming cars getting over out the way. Why? Because at top of hill is spooky place, which horse would have tanked off at flat out down hill, if I'd tried to keep to a walk. Didn't do arthritis much good but letting off steam prevented disaster and walked past spooky place went quietly home. Damage limitation. Don't gaze at the scenery, read your situation and change your plans if necessary. Split up from friend if they're racing each other and go home alone, turm onto a route going uphill rather than down if you're already struggling etc.
 
I'm sure you'll be aware that if your horse does it again and causes an accident in the process no insurance company will pay out knowing it has a history of doing this?
I'd send away for proper schooling or keep enclosed riding as this is not simply a one off or triggered by something rational.
If he'd run into a car this time would you have been happy explaining why he was out when sold as a bolter and had done so with you?
 
It'up to you but why sell one project to buy another?

If current horse isn't suitable then maybe you do need another horse.
But make try not to go for the cheap project and get a horse you can trust and does want you want to do, like driving etc.
 
OP, there is a long thread from not long ago about bolting/tanking but am sure you know already what difference is.

What worries me more, was that you ask a lot of questions but still seem to make your own way and disregard much of what has been previously posted in your pony project threads.

You asked earlier this year (in around 2 or 3 threads as I recall) about moneymaking schemes by taking in projects, admitting you didn't have a lot of knowledge in this, but thought you would be able to turn around childrens ponies in a matter of a fortnight to a few weeks & make money.
Plenty of people gave a lot of helpful advice then, with the main 2 things standing out all through one long thread which were: you MUST have experience in doing this and you will NOT make money in project ponies from bargain basement (unless you really know what you are doing) so will not cover the renting of facilities (field etc).

I wish you all the best of luck in getting your latest one sorted out, but please please get some proper hands-on advice from someone experienced who can come out to help you.
If you cannot afford or want to do that, then you really should not be attempting re-hab of projects; someone or something is going to have the potential to go very wrong. I hope you have 3rd party insurance.
 
I'm with wagtail- I took on what was a known 'tanker' from what I was told... It had run away with the owner a few times and scared her. My mare went to her on trial to buy and her gelding came to me. When I went to try it, I sat on it, it was nervy but nothing seriously concerning. She advised that it had a snaffle bridle, so that's what I rode it in. I only got two feet into the arena when he dropped his arse and ran blind. I bailed when he swerved (the opposite way I was attempting to steer him) at the last moment before hitting the arena fence which was a good 6 feet. He didn't stop once I was off. I did take him home and worked my arse off on him for five weeks in a very small indoor and with a BP on. I did strap him down in a running martingale and a dutch gag (I have never used one before or since!) and we did after five weeks get to the point of being able to canter. If I moved an inch in the saddle, he panicked, and two other experienced riders rode him in that time- neither lasted more than a circuit of the school. One was badly dragged. I would NEVER have trusted him in an open space, poor boy- and he was a total gent on the floor. As he muscled up, it became apparent that there was massive muscle damage around his shoulder and chest, and ribs all down the same side consistent with a RTA. We vetted him after five weeks, vet confirmed massive prior injuries but sound and fit and no back/neck issues. He was returned to the owner and she was advised to either give him away as a companion or shoot as a horse that could only ever be ridden in a small indoor had no good future. She wussed out and apparently gave him back to the dealer in exchange for another horse. In a way, I really wish I'd given her a nominal amount and had him a a companion, or had him PTS myself as almost five years on I worry about what kind of future he had... Once a horse is labeled (truthfully in your case, and mine) they have such an uncertain future. The first person you sell to will probably sound all right- the person they sell to probably won't be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top