Sad,confused thread :(

It almost seems as if we are trying to find a legal definition of tanking/bolting.
Fact - you have been on a horse that went off with you and you were unable to stop it and it resulted in a fall - end of. If you are an experienced rider as I would hope you are if you buy project horses then why would you want to offload this horse to someone else when you have failed. This was not an isolated incident the horse has done it before (as you say). Project horses are that for a reason and you really need to be very experienced and gutsy to succeed. It seems that this horse has been through several owners before and if he continues on this merry go round he will only get worse.
 
Sorry but tanking or bolting, either way this horse is a danger. You need to think very strongly and realistically about his future either with you or someone else.
He is unpredictable. Yes I know horses are horses but there is a big difference from a horse who will occasionally try it on - a spook, a buck something slightly out of the ordinary - or a horse that will just tank off/bolt with no warning.
You were sold the horse as a bolter. How do you know it didn't bolt with it's previous owner? You do sound like you are making excuses for him. One minute he bolted but if this labels him as dangerous then he didn't, he just tanked.
I don't think you should sell this horse. But in honesty you don't sound experienced enough to work with it (if this is possible as a true bolter cannot be cured - that is why they are dangerous). Which sees a few options -
loan only to extremely experienced home being 100% honest about his history. Keep as a companion horse or pts. Think of the horses future at stake.
 
WelshD said:
People suggesting PTS isn't that helpful given the fact that she doesn't know and no one experienced enough was there to say what happened
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Yes, with hindsight I would agree.

I stupidly made the assumption that someone taking on problem horses had the experience to deal with them, and was able to accurately identify a horses behaviour.
 
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I really think the horse should just be rehomed as a companion - If it was me I couldnt live with myself if horse passed from pillar to post where history of severe tanking or bolting may not be disclosed - could potentially be a bad accident waiting to happen for some unknowing person.
OP would you not just get yourself something you can ride for next couple years or are you just buying & selling on?

OH & I really hope you recover from your injuries, nasty fall.
 
I'm sorry to say this OP, but this is all coming across as very childish. You are being given EXCELLENT advice, but you seem to be arguing every point, even about what you yourself have said in your posts :confused:

YOU are then one that knows if the horse bolts or not - we don't. A horse that tanks can usually be pulled up with correct riding, and then schooled further to reduce it happening again. A horse that bolts is a totally different thing - the flight reaction on total overload. Nothing and no-one can stop a bolter - either the horse runs the panic out of itself, or something nasty happens. No rider in the world can fully sort a bolter.

You bought the horse as a bolter, right ? The previous owner never rode him, probably because he bolted with her and scared her. She should NEVER have sold the horse to you (or anyone). Now you have been bolted with 1/2/3 ?? times. Yes, every horse may spook and run forwards, but I go back to bolting. Your horse bolts. there is NO CURE.

I would suggest therefore, that it is very unsafe for you or anyone else to ride him, and that you can only keep/sell him as a companion horse. However, if you do sell, the buyer may take the risk, and end up getting killed.

THAT is why, the three options for you are 1) keep going as you are and see what happens (just avoid anyone that could get harmed by your horse panicing)....2) retire as companion.... 3) have him PTS.
 
There is of course one other option, that this horse does not get hacked out and instead is schooled, jumped, does dressage etc. There are plenty of horses like this. I have owned one, and she was perfectly happy. She wasn't a bolter, just got totally wound up out hacking and was a danger as she would run backwards into the road etc. But she had a good show jumping career with me and lots of turnout.
 
i would respectfully suggest OP that if you do not know the difference between a true bolt and being run away with that you are not really experienced enough to be taking on problem horses with the view to selling them on :( If you carry on the way you are, either you or someone you sell to will end up seriously injured.
 
My elderly mare is/was a tanker and bolter. It takes a lot to make her bolt but she was in a rta at some point before i owned her and is terrified of traffic, in company she is ok but i wont hack her alone! She is generally fine and wont leave her companion. I found that the biggest help was the right bit, in her case a three ring gag on bottom ring but with a french link mouthpiece. Hope you manage to solve it x
 
showpony said:
I really think the horse should just be rehomed as a companion - If it was me I couldnt live with myself if horse passed from pillar to post where history of severe tanking or bolting may not be disclosed - could potentially be a bad accident waiting to happen for some unknowing person.
OP would you not just get yourself something you can ride for next couple years or are you just buying & selling on?

OH & I really hope you recover from your injuries, nasty fall.
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On paper this sounds fine but in reality these dangerous ponies do get sold on by un-scrupulous people who don't disclose their issues.

Quite a few years ago now, i took my then 6 & 9 yr old children to a reputable sj dealer to try a jumping pony. It wasn't suitable as was just too big & strong for my son, aged 9. They said that as luck would have it, they had another pony there with them (we had met at a show to watch the original mare jump)that their daughter had already jumped around a small class & might be more suitable for my quite nervous son.

We tried the 13.2 chestnut gelding in an indoor school & all went swimmingly. They said that he belonged to an elderly couple who had used him for their grandchildren. They 'called' the couple & explained that he would have a lovely home with two lovely children!!
She put a lot of pressure on me to make a decision & said that she could deliver him within a few days. We knew a mutual instructor who knew my children very well & i guess that i felt reassured by this.
She made a mistake by dropping an old owners name into conversation whilst 'bigging' him up. I happened to have sj friends that knew these old owners & i knew that they had a younger children too.
I drove home thinking that i'd found a nice pony but thought that i would just get my friend to put in a call to the old owners. Alarm bells started to ring when they wouldn't take her call. Eventually she managed to speak to the woman's secretary who basically said that the pony had been given to the elderly couple as a companion pony & was under no circumstances to be ridden as it was a bolter & not to touch it with a barge pole.

I thank my lucky stars that we were warned off it, but who knows what happened to it. A few months later i heard that a pony from the same place had been killed galloping onto a main road. Luckily without a rider on board.

Horses are dangerous creatures at the best of times, why would you ride one that didn't want to look out for it's self, let alone it's rider?

I know that it's harsh but IMO pts really would be the best option unless as Wagtail says, it is only used within a school situation.
 
Even in a school, i should think a horse in a blind panic could do one hell of a lot of damage. God only knows what's happened to these horses to make them bolters :(
 
Goodness people are getting bogged down with defintions on this thread!!

A bolter is dangerous, and rare. Many end up killing themselves. A tanker can be something that ******s off up a canter path, or worse, one that carries on and crosses roads etc. The second type of tanker is also very dangerous. I had a pony as a child that ran off for over a mile, crossing roads etc. It may not have been bolting, but it was terrifying and was blimmin dangeous.

Either way the OP has had a very frightening experience, that was dangerous, that left her unconcious if I read right, and is scared. That is understandable and I can empathise as to why you would think of selling initially.

I think the horse is being naughty, and from the sound of it, follows your friend's horse. So first thing, you don't go out with any horse that is not rock solid and that you can run into the back of if need be. I would also be spending a lot of time in the school and trying out different bits to find something that you could pull him up in.

Secondly, I think you mentioned your instructor was involved when you got the horse. I would ring them up, have a long chat about whats been going on and how you feel. Unlike all of us on here, they should actually know the horse and give you a more realistic opinion and plan for what to do.
 
sarahricoh.......please don't think me rude as I'm not out to attack you personally (how could I, I don't know you!) but from someone who has simply read your posts and read between the lines......

It sounds like you are overhorsed and not experienced enough to deal with this horse. It is this type of situation that often leads to horses being sold on and eventually euthenized, unfortunately.

My personal recommendation is that you must take responsbility for this horse. This means accepting that you need help in this situation and that it will probably cost you some money so that someone else can work with this horse and re-school him.

Bolting/tanking/running away/jogging/pulling and even above the bit (whatever you like to call it) is all part and parcel of the same thing - poor deceleration responses from the horse.

Simply by the fact that your horse reacted in this way tells us that a) he needs re-schooling/re-training by an experienced rider who is able to correct unwanted behaviours and properly reward correct behaviours.

The flight reponse can manifest itself within moments and you can unwittingly find yourself on a bolting horse. However, the more experience rider is able to CONTAIN this response because they are very quick at spotting behavioural changes that occur so that they can change the flight posture and slow the feet. Quickness in alterning the horse's posture, slowing the feet and then putting the horse on to the aids as quickly as possible is the best way to avoid the feet getting faster and faster.

If the horse's feet are allowed to get faster and the horse puts more distance between itself and the stimulus that provoked the flight response in the first place, is a sure fire recipe for 'increasing' the blind panic/flight response in the horse. Once fear is on board, this 'learning' goes straight to long term memory and it's very difficult to get rid of. As such, as it has 'bolted' with you now, there is an increased chance that this will happen again.

I think that a more experienced rider would be able to assess the horse and know that it's deceleration responses are not quite there yet, or that it is fearful and so not put the horse into a situation where its' feet are allowed to get faster and faster, such as taking it on a hack or allow it to get faster as it approaches home. But, rather work with it in a more contained environment until it's 'stop' and slow are fully operational, as it were.

I think this is a learning curve for you and I think that we've all been there at some point in our careers (whether professional or personal) with horses but it is what you do with this experience that counts.

Your responsibility is to be realistic about your abilities for the good of your horse. You must put your ego aside here. It's a hard lesson to learn and I'm sure more have us have been in this situation than we care to mention - I've certainly have.

Best of luck.
 
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Let's forget the bolting issue and say you have a horse that used to tank off with the previous owner and now tanks off with you. The reality is that the horse is not really sellable in this state and if you cannot either re-school him effectively or retire him, the responsible thing is to PTS.

Things to do with a horse that tanks off:
- get a vet out to do a thorough physical
- re-check your tack and consider a different bit or other parts of tack (martingale, flash, etc.)
- some horses have a trigger, e.g. open spaces or being behind another horse. If you can find what it is you can avoid it.
- if hacking in company always hack with a horse that is likely to not take off if you do. Most horses will slow down a bit if their companion does not follow.
- if the horse sticks his head in the air when he takes off, keep your hands low. If he curls under and becomes heavy on the forehand, sharply raising both hands may help.
- some horses can be stopped if you take immediate action, i.e. as soon as you feel them gathering speed do a massive half-halt, even if you have to put your whole back in it. Such horses are always best kept in a contained pace and never allowed to flat out gallop. Other horses panic by too much bit contact and may do better if you release the pressure for a few strides and then re-collect them.
- re-school in an arena, in the lighterst bit possible. A horse with a rounded back is less likely to take off than a hollow horse because you can contain and use the energy more easily.
- practice stopping in areas where you can manage a disaster, e.g. use a huge open space so that if the horse does completely take off you can gently steer him in a large circle and quietly sit there until he calms down.
 
amymay said:
I have to say, I feel slightly concerned for this horse, and the new one...
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I feel more concerned for anyone who may end up buying it.

Op, you are out of your depth, you do not understand horse behaviour and your comment that all horses could just take off from fear is completely ridiculous and proves my first two comments.
 
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