Sadam Hussein

[flyingfeet]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with the death penalty, i think they should be locked up in prison and have to live with the guilt, but in this extreme case i think sadam hussein should get the death penalty, after what he's done i doubt he has a conscience(sp). Also agree with huggy bear.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the death penalty either... however holding Saddam for life would be a huge task and if (when?) he escaped it would not look good. Trouble is prisions aren't what they used to be, security is lax and it costs a lot to keep any prisoner for life.

I don't think there is a good or easy solution for Saddam

 

[MagicMelon]

I dont think peoples taxes should pay for people to rot in jail for life. I really dont. Murderers should be given the death penalty (as long as it is 100% proven that they did it).

Why keep Saddam alive? He's so deluded, he still thinks he runs his country and that he should basically be treated with respect. A person like that has no concept of accepting what he's done is wrong. So whats the point in putting him in prison?

'His' people deserve to get their justice. He did not kill thoasands of us (or americans), he slaughtered them and ruined their lives. So if hanging is the way to go, why not? He doesnt deserve to live. Hopefully Bin Laden will eventually go this way too. We're not lowering to his standards by hanging, that is what they do in their country! I believe they also stone women to death...... of course its awful but that is their penalties. I dont agree with the electric chair which some USA states still have so I guess I could say those states have "low standards" but I dont, because I realise that's just their way.

Its a different way of life in Pakistan and those surrounding places. Look at what the terrorists do - they regularily (more often that we think) take peoples heads off. Im Saddam didnt kill nicely either. Does that sound civilised to you? So why does he deserve a civilised death (or no death at all?!)?

 

[MagicMelon]

What someone has already said - that his remaining supporters aren't going to like this result. That is very true. A lot who dont even seem to support Saddam are protesting purely because its Bush behind a lot of it. I think the USA will definately have to be on high security alert for quite some time after his hanging.

 

[LuanneCat]

Although I really don't agree with the death penalty, I feel he deservs it. However if he was ot recieve the death penalty he would clearly see himself and be in the eyes of his fellow Sunnis a martyr(sp). Judging by the smile he gave after being sentence this is exactly what he wants now so tbh i wouldn't give him that.

 

[Blackhawk]

[ QUOTE ]
Isaying that though he would have a life of luxury in our prisons these days

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I imagine he'd not be in prision in our country.

 

[AlexBomb]

no, sorry, i think that he should be kept alive. As someone that works in Intelligence, i can see the value of interviews with him, it may also help with the stability issue in the long term.

If he is put to death then what does it do? not a great deal, its not the end of the problem of a devided Iraq, it may speed up the end of Iraq and have the split speed up - meltdown as it were.

I am someone who did support the removal of the government in Iraq, someone who employ's personnel (exSAS) that work in Iraq and someone who has a respect for the everyday people of the country.

You do have to look at the political history of the middle east, not just the Arab/Isreal issue, but back to Oman, the UAE and British involvement during WW1/WW2 (Lawerance of Arabia).

to be fair, we shafted them over oil right up until OPEC was formed - at that time a barrel of Coke (the drink) was at a higher value than oil!

(oh, the trial is not being held in America, it is being held in a hangar at Baghdad international airport. and whilst the US do have some involvement, it was the right choice for him to be before an Iraqi court.)

So, dont get me started on Iraq - for more an outlook, see www.int-int.co.uk "in the press"


Alex

 

[haybales]

im fairly shocked at peoples priorities placing more importance on money than the right to life! a good reply in the death penalty in the soap box from gedenskis girl (i think) on this issue

 

[burtie]

Personally if I'd been making any decisions, he'd have been accidentally killed during capture. Keep him alive, chance of escape and a continual problem of where to keep him and the security. Death penalty - Instant Martyr.

But then equally I'd have finished the job in Iraq 14 years ago now, and certainly there was no justification for invading at the later date.

Now they really are in a tough no win situation what ever happens.

 

[SJFAN]

I find it hard to imagine that this wretched man would reveal any useful information.

I do agree with your point about the mess European politicians have made in the Middle East for generations e.g. TE Lawrence, with the best of intentions, made promises to Arab leaders which our rulers subsequently broke.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
i really dont know if these people have "guilt"

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Guilt is a judeo-christian concept. Muslims do not feel 'guilt' as we do; they believe the end justifies the means. Don't forget Saddam and Bin Laden (with all the suicide bombers, etc) feel they are fighting a holy war.
I used to have alot of arab students (all very nice people, incidentally

) and had long talks with them about this.

 

[Sooty]

The death penalty has always seemed ludicrously ironic and illogical to me. It is wrong to kill someone, so how do you punish someone who has done just that? You kill them. Hmmm... As far as Sadam Hussein is concerned, we don't actually know the truth. We were told he was a monster responsible for incalculable deaths, but we were also told he had WMDs. It is an irrefutable fact that Iraq is now in a far worse state than when he ruled it, and far more people are being killed by Iraqis every day than back then. Getting rid of Hussein has done absolutely nothing to benefit Iraq.

 

[SJFAN]

Whereas there was no evidence of WMD there is irrefutable evidence of Saddam's murderous regine. However, the West is far from blameless having provided him with arms (I think when Iran was regarded as the major enemy).

 

[emma69]

1) I find it a littel too convenient that the verdict comes 2 days before the USA goes to the polls for the mid-term elections. I'm guessing that this isn't front page news right now in the UK - but how convenient that the verdit (strung out for months) comes down at such a political time...

2) Saddam was tried by a jury of his peers - that is, Iraquis, in Iraq. Do I think his trial was fair? No, not especially. I think the dismissal of the judge a few months ago goes against the grain, and I think that there was little doubt as to the verdict, whilst I am pretty sure the man is guilty, I only know this by the media I have seen - what's that quote "one man's dictator is another man's freedom fighter"? Or "history is written by the victors". There was never any doubt that this man would be found guilty - in my mind it was a case of whether he would still be alive at the end of the trial...

3) The death penalty. I am not sure that I agree with it - how does that make the victors any better than he? I also am not sure it will ever get to that - would his die-hard supportors allow the humiliation, or will he be found dead in his cell (poison, shot etc). Whether we see a man hanged is quite another matter - I pity the body double that day - the regime has to be seen to execute him - the people of Iraq will not believe he is gone until they see him killed.

4) Do I agree he should die in the next 30 days. Absolutly not. This man should be made to stand trial and be convicted for all the charges laid against him - at least give his victims and their families that. As it stands, this man will only have been found guilty of one crime against humanity ( I believe) the genocide in the 70's. I strongly believe he should stand trial for all the subsequent crimes, and allow these people some closure, for want of a better term.

 

[SJFAN]

I agree that he should have to stand trial on the other charges. I've never heard anyone say that one man's dictator is another's freedom fighter. It's usually one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

 

[haybales]

BBC news said he was found guilty for two other crimes against humanity and sentenced to 7yrs imprisonment for each.

 

[emma69]

When someone has a better quality of life in prison than out of it, you have to question exactly what the deterrent is. There are plenty of people who can't afford a TV and a playstation, they work a full week, and can't afford to go out for pints with friends on the weekend, not to mention the fact they are too tired. Why not commit a crime, go to prison, get 3 square meals a day, a tv and a playstation to entertain you, an education to help you get a good job once you get out, a gym to work out in, etc etc etc.....

Ok, so it's tongue in cheek, but I really think the UK prisons have got ridiculous - the US prisons on the other hand are frightful on the whole - rape, beatings and murder are rife, 23 hours a day locked in a cell, poor sanitation, and food that elsewhere would not be fit for human consumption. No, I'm not saying this is the right way either, but I can tell you which one is far more of a deterrent to me!

 

[emma69]

A little poetic licence...

I can see why the people who supported him did - he may have ruled with an iron fist, but for joe public Iraq was a heck of a lot safer than it is now.

 

[emma69]

My apologies, the only crime they are reporting on here is the genocide - guess the other one just doesn't make it on the newsworthyness scale...

 

[AlexBomb]

well, if you want to talk about Bin Laden, this is a different matter totally, this is the area of Saudi politics - again another area where the British got involoved an installed a pupet ruling family!

What Bin Laden wants is to overthrow the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia and to remove the infadels (i.e. UK/USA) from the middle east. And when i say remove from the middle east, i mean remove out Air Bases, our military installations and to stop getting involved in a world that has nothing to do with us.

Iran and the Nuclear issue is about roughly that same type of case. G.W Bush and Tony Blair are both as mad as hatters, Iran arming its self is a reaction to the "west's" suport of Isreal. hardly a suprising reaction.

Anyway... Iraq is a mess and the only way out is a hearts and minds approch to the situation, not what we see now. We need to start talking to all groups in Iraq and the greater middle east to solve this issue, then butt out of the middle east.

Remember, Nelson Mandela was once classed by the UK government as a terrorist. One mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist.

This forum is no real place to discuss these issues, to be honest - most people here do not know what is going on in the street down the road, let alone in some sand box in the middle east. rant over.

 

[AlexBomb]

genocide, yes. where we we at the time?

The first gulf war was a just war (if you can call any war just). i served in that conflict and we did not finish the job. Why, doing so would have lost the support of Saudi Arabia and other members of the Gulf States.

emma69 - no they cant go out for pints with friends, because drinking is against the law of the teachings of Mohammed as laid down in the Koran.

Maybe Sadam should have been made to stand trial in The Hage, but then you only have to look at the mess that we have made at prosecuting cases in the Bosnia conflict.

make love not war!

 

[KJI_Lover]

[ QUOTE ]
Is Saddam Hussein the one that got people to hijack the planes and crash in to the twin towers? Or was that Usam Binladin?

[/ QUOTE ]Funny you should say that. Americans were lied to by Bush that Saddam was involved with Al Qauda who did 9/11.

It's clear that's never been true then or now.

Al Qauda do now have a foothold in Iraq...thanks to our interference. There's also more torture than before.

Pervesely the world was a safer place with Saddam in power. Lest we forget our sanctions are directly repsonsible for several hundred thousand childrens deaths. The West has nothing to be proud of.

 

[emma69]

I was refering to the UK prisons... last time I looked the prisons in Iraq didn't have playstations or tvs either

 

[emma69]

Why do you assume that the people on here are not well informed? Surely by debating on here you broaden people's knowledge? It's very arrogant to assume you know what is going on, and us plebs don't.

 

[AlexBomb]

Ace_of_Spades

very true mate, good point well presented, go to the top of the class.

emma69

The prisons in Iraq are a mess and i agree with you, BUT it is maybe how we should run our prison service here.

 

[emma69]

That was kind of where it was going, but I used the example of US prisons as I have better knowledge of those than I do Iraqui prisons

 

[AlexBomb]

the good old usa! what a mess that place is. i served along side the us army a number of times, John Kerry was so right, god they are as think as s'#t.

i have an office in New York one in California, 95% of Americans only know what is goin gon in the state where they live, the news in the USA is so watered down, maybe its so they can handle it, i dont know.

 

[Tempi]

i would rather see him rot in jail - the death penalty is an easy way out for him imo. Also its going to cause a lot of unrest (and probably civil war) in a country thats already struggling.......

 

[emma69]

You start to realize why friendly fire ocurs when the US Major at the front of the room has a different LOD to the rest of the English side of the room......

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

He should be left to rot in a cell, death is the easy way out for him IMO

 

[tormor]

i don't think he should have the death penality as he will be seen as a marty (sp?) for his followers