Saddle Dilemma for youngster

Persephone

Persephone

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I am turning myself in circles here trying to work out what to do!

I have a 3 y/o substantial ID/TB filly approx 16.2 (+ :eek: ) who is being started this year very, very lightly, then to be turned away until next year.

I have tried different saddles on her but IMO the ones I have are too narrow, even though one was an extra wide. It seems too tight on her shoulder at least,maybe there are more problems too.

The main problem being this, I am no saddle fitter, so now I think ,my saddles are going to be no good I am going to have to get a saddle fitter out and have a different one sorted out.

My main question is, if it fits as a three year old is it likely to fit or be adjusted to fit her as a four year old? I don't want to buy a new one this year and another new one next year.

I guess there is the possibility of getting a cheapy to fit her this year, or the other suggestion somebody gave me is to get her a sheepskin pad, just as something for her to wear, me lean over and get on and off a few times.

I am really in a dilemma :(

What has anybody else done in this situation?
 
Cheapo saddle gets my vote. Even if its a battered ancient one or an old synthetic. Reckon you could get one to fit at 3 & have it adjusted at 4, but think you'd be lucky to be able to get it adjusted to fit by the time horse is 6 & has filled out & developed topline.
 
littlelegs said:
Cheapo saddle gets my vote. Even if its a battered ancient one or an old synthetic. Reckon you could get one to fit at 3 & have it adjusted at 4, but think you'd be lucky to be able to get it adjusted to fit by the time horse is 6 & has filled out & developed topline.
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Ah thanks :) That is exactly the kind of insight I need! She is very differently bred to other horses I have started and I really don't want to throw away a lot of money initially, although obviously it is so important that it's comfortable for her!
 
I would get what ever saddle would fit her now, but make sure it is one that would retain it's value well to be sold on in case it doesn't continue to fit. Then you can try not to waste a load of money whilst not compromising on the comfort of your horse.

Saddles I would consider would be good quality branded leather second hand or adjustable new (thorowgood gets my vote if the shape suits, I wouldn't ever put a wintec or bates on my horses!). Your saddler might have a good stock of second hand and thorowgoods are v popular too so shouldn't be difficult getting someone out to fit your mare with something to suit. Check that they would take a saddle back that they sell to you to part ex for her next one (bound to need replacing sooner or later!).
 
I bought my Kent and masters (leather, adjustible gullet made by thorowgood)) for this reason... they have several styles so suit many shapes (you might want a straighter cut one for big shoulders) I didn't really want an adjustible gullet but it makes complete sense for a growing and changing youngster up to 7 years of age and at (only!) £700 new, it will have earnt it's keep by the time I sell it on ;). it's a nice looking, comfortable, lightish weight and decent enough quality saddle for it's price :)

Worth a look?

ets, my boy is a big CB with plenty of filling out to do :)
 
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I have 2 3 year olds, i bought them both new Thorowgood T4 saddles.
375 each, English made, adjustable gullet so you can alter them as they grow and best part for me and daughter is the suede seat, your backside sticks to it in sticky moments :D
 
CBFan said:
I bought my Kent and masters (leather, adjustible gullet made by thorowgood)) for this reason... they have several styles so suit many shapes (you might want a straighter cut one for big shoulders) I didn't really want an adjustible gullet but it makes complete sense for a growing and changing youngster up to 7 years of age and at (only!) £700 new, it will have earnt it's keep by the time I sell it on ;). it's a nice looking, comfortable, lightish weight and decent enough quality saddle for it's price :)

Worth a look?

ets, my boy is a big CB with plenty of filling out to do :)
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Ah they look interesting, just looked at the website as I hadn't really heard of them before. I have always gone for Albion.
 
Persephone said:
Ah they look interesting, just looked at the website as I hadn't really heard of them before. I have always gone for Albion.
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I hadn't heard of them before they were suggested as an option by saddle fitter before my appointment but I lookd them up, and researched them and it has surpassed my expectations :) Definately reccomend :)
 
I'm having a saddle fitting problem with my flat backed youngster. Although the front arch is changeable in some of the synthetics that doesn't alter the actual gullet (I mean the channel between the panels). So the saddle may end up being too high at the back.
 
mainpower said:
I'm having a saddle fitting problem with my flat backed youngster. Although the front arch is changeable in some of the synthetics that doesn't alter the actual gullet (I mean the channel between the panels). So the saddle may end up being too high at the back.
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You are absolutly right, but it does at least increase the chance of the saddle continuing to fit, and it also increases the resale value of the saddle - both handy things!
 
mainpower said:
I'm having a saddle fitting problem with my flat backed youngster. Although the front arch is changeable in some of the synthetics that doesn't alter the actual gullet (I mean the channel between the panels). So the saddle may end up being too high at the back.
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I do believe there is a certain type of horses that the adjustables fit, I have never found one yet! But there is always a first time :)
 
I think the likes of thorowgood and kent & masters fit most horses, it's the tricky to fit ones that don't suit these adjustable saddles.

I have a TB/cob cross, a section D and and Irish cob and all have thorowgood adjustable saddles. All young horses that are forever changing shape.
I think you have to have the right width gullet to start with and then adjust.
Where people go wrong is buying the wrong adjustable saddle to start with and of course just the front adjusts.

For example, a flat backed highland or cob.
Yes you may get a thorowgood GP to fit but when summer comes and you adjust to a wider gullet you start to have problems.
A thorowgood cob saddle would be far better suited as it has a wider gullet all the way down the saddle thus suiting the flat back, so a wider gullet is a subtle adjustment on the cob version.
Yet the GP and cob comes in identical width fittings bar 1 fitting each end of the scale (GP has narrow, cob has xxL)
Identical width fittings yet clearly suited t different types of horses.
 
I also bought a kent and Masters adjustable Vsd saddle for a three year old with a view to it being refitted as required. Even better the saddler had a second hand one. It is a nice, smart, comfortable saddle and I'm looking after it to preserve any resale value.
 
I had this dilemma when starting my youngster last year. Really don't like the adjustable gullets, there's more to a saddle fitting than the width! And the quality of "cheapy" saddles worry me- I've seen more problems in babies cause by badly fitting saddles being used for backing...

I used the Solution treeless in the end - the only saddle my other horse will go in. I bought a second off ebay, so me and my mum can ride together. Eventually, we'll probably have a treed saddle for him, but can't see the point at the moment, and having had so many issues with Saddle Fitters in the past, I'd like to deal with them as little as possible. The plus being that the second one was a total bargain, and I'm happy that I'll get my money back for it, if not a little bit more :)

He's going really well in it and I love it to bits- but mum prefers a narower twist, and as he is actually for her (although I might steal him- he's pretty fab!) it's up to her what she has in the long run. But I've told her to wait until he's fully matured, no point in going through several saddles when we don't need to.
 
I have just had the exact same dilemma rising 4 year old grown out of the saddle i used to break her in as had already changed so much, I too looked at the Kent and masters and do think they are a lovely saddle and perfect for changing youngsters but i ended up with a bates with changeable gullet system as was a nicer fit for my horse. I think these are the way forward for changeling youngsters and if kept nice can hold much of there value if has to be changed.

Pony curious why you would never use a bates?? Ive only had mine 2 days and love it so far......
 
wildcard said:
I have just had the exact same dilemma rising 4 year old grown out of the saddle i used to break her in as had already changed so much, I too looked at the Kent and masters and do think they are a lovely saddle and perfect for changing youngsters but i ended up with a bates with changeable gullet system as was a nicer fit for my horse. I think these are the way forward for changeling youngsters and if kept nice can hold much of there value if has to be changed.

Pony curious why you would never use a bates?? Ive only had mine 2 days and love it so far......
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if you have a look at the gullet plate then it has a bend to the sides rather than being straight - these can cause pressure points. On the cair ones there is a hard edge to the bags and this often sits right at the outside edge of the panel against the horses back - again giving a hard pressure point exactly where it should deform to take the weight of a rider (if yours is cair then turn it upside-down and with the back of the saddle facing away from you run the palms of your hands over the stitched seam that runs along the outside. This should give easily and comfortably, but many of them have hard rumples here from the bags that you really struggle to push in with your hands - not comfy!). Too many niggles for me to trust them I'm afraid! If it fits and your horse is happy then you have to trust the horses opinion though - he is the expert!
 
wow interesting stuff she seems to move well in it and is comfortable so i guess is just what suits each horse. Nice to get another perspective on them though and will be something i can keep an eye out for now :)
 
mainpower said:
I'm having a saddle fitting problem with my flat backed youngster. Although the front arch is changeable in some of the synthetics that doesn't alter the actual gullet (I mean the channel between the panels). So the saddle may end up being too high at the back.
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The gullet/channel width really only relates to how the panel sits alongsid the wither, and how wide it is to clear the spinal processes but you're right, different horses need different widths, usually between 3-4 fingers (well, my fingers :D)

If the saddle is too high at the back with the right width at the front then it is the panel depth that is probably wrong - I find more commonly saddles sit down at the back and it is the little triangular gusset that is too shallow.

I will simply say that young horses' backs are the softest, and can damage the most easily. Buy whatever fits - if literally unbacked be prepared that when you get into trot work the back of the saddle may lift and you must see if this can be corrected as it will cause damage. It is always hard fitting a stationery horse, you can't guarantee the fit in the same way, so just something to be aware of. As I fit wide types and natives on the whole I know which tree shapes are likely to fit long term but it's still a bigger risk when fitting an unbacked horse.
 
Sbloom, this I find is the difficulty! You want the saddle to fit as well as possible, but the horse isn't backed, because you don't know if the saddle fits! Therefore all that can be done is to fit the horse stationary. Although she does lunge, would that be a compromise?


It's so difficult!
 
Unfortunately lunging tells you very little - the weight of the rider makes a huge difference and can make a saddle much more stable (which you might have discounted on the lunge for too much movement), or much more unstable if there is an issue.
 
Ok - could you try a bareback pad...one with stirrups...before anyone screams at me...my suggestion is to NOT put weight in the stirrups, only use them as a back up if your youngster decides to try and get you off!

Then you could walk her around so she is used to you on her back walking, this would help when you need to have saddle fitted.

Just a thought
 
jeez oh good luck :-) my idx went through 5 saddles in a year, thankfully managed to borrow most of them. has just tuurned 5 and still blooming growing love them lol
 
Parker79 said:
Ok - could you try a bareback pad...one with stirrups...before anyone screams at me...my suggestion is to NOT put weight in the stirrups, only use them as a back up if your youngster decides to try and get you off!

Then you could walk her around so she is used to you on her back walking, this would help when you need to have saddle fitted.

Just a thought
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It really has occurred to me more than once!

Thing I am thinking is, she is 3 bless her cotton socks :) This year I want to pop on, walk around the school for a few days, take her down the road and back a couple of times and that will be it!

I have already leaned across her, she is fine, and I don't want to start spending a fortune on a saddle which will effectively be used for a few days and then won't fit by next year when she comes into some proper work.

Argh saddle angst!
 
Persephone said:
It really has occurred to me more than once!

Thing I am thinking is, she is 3 bless her cotton socks :) This year I want to pop on, walk around the school for a few days, take her down the road and back a couple of times and that will be it!

I have already leaned across her, she is fine, and I don't want to start spending a fortune on a saddle which will effectively be used for a few days and then won't fit by next year when she comes into some proper work.

Argh saddle angst!
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I am in EXACTLY the same boat...so the advice I gave you is more than likely what I will be doing. When the saddler is next out I will be sharing a visit and getting her opinion (just in case she has aomething 2nd hand that is ideal), but my boy has a massive amount of growing to do and I do not want to back him properly til next spring.

I would rather use a pad and go slow without any pressure in the stirrups than put him in a synthetic or have an expensive saddle fitted now. I only want him to have me on his back a couple of times this year and the rest will be groundwork.

Keep me posted, would be interested to see what you decide? I tried to get a Cashel soft saddle secondhand, they do not have great reviews but for 5 minutes I think they would be fine.
 
For the little you want to do, is bareback an option? I used to always get legged up without a saddle for the first few times on a youngster...

The other option is a treefree, especially for a horse with big shoulders.
 
I started off thinking about a bareback saddlepad tbh, let's face it a saddle won't keep me on any more than a pad will but the pad will give a little stickability!

I will research and let you know Parker79!

cbmcts, yes I have leaned across her bareback already, but I do find it very hard work to keep my weight even, if I can lean across something that will create a bit of friction plus my neckstrap I feel that might be an improvement!
 
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